HardOCP News
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Apples plan to charge customers $5 for a patch that allows existing Intel based Macs to work with the new Airport Extreme is understandably drawing a lot of criticism.
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Apples Pay For Patch Plan Backfires
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Sabrewings
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
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- 19
I think it's about time Apple's attitude towards their customers is brought to the real world. The !!!!!!s can't see it for themselves, so its gone on for too long.
Sabrewings
n00b
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- Jan 15, 2007
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CyberDeus-RagDoll
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2006
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Nearly every website I've seen today has been wailing on Apple over this. That must certainly mean something, right? I think it's a bad idea, but I don't own a single Apple product. (I'd be booted from my gaming clans/groups if I did)
That is just silly. Apple actually makes a decent product or two. Yes, there may be BETTER products, but using the mac mini as an example, the mac mini is very nice, because of it's very petite size. cappucinnopc.com has similair "wintel" products, and they don't cost any less (in fact, they are usually more) so, for the super-tiny lower power system market, it's a very good product.
and I am NOT an apple fan
the problem with apple is they just so GROSSLY lie about their products, to the point of insulting the competition "What's an intel processor doing in an apple? More than It ever did in a PC!" is downright stupid, considering that it has been proven time and time again that the "important" apps (i.e. photoshop....) for PC and Mac run BETTER on the same hardware in a "Wintel" solution.
Take the Apple 30" Cinema Display vs the Dell 3007FPW. Has NOBODY noticed that they have the EXACT same specifications, yet, for some reason, the dell costs 40% less than the apple screen?
Why does a 750GB seagate 7200RPM, 16mb, sata2 harddrive cost $599 in a mac pro, when @ frys it costs $350?
Why does apple charge for .# updates? 10.0 -> 10.1 costs money!
Everything apple sells costs more, when it's NOT any different than the same part in the pc world.
DVD burners are $100 a pop. 4GB of (DDR2, ECC, FB, 4 x1GB) ram for the mac pro is $1,400, yet I can buy name brand, that very same stuff, for $652.
That is just silly. Apple actually makes a decent product or two. Yes, there may be BETTER products, but using the mac mini as an example, the mac mini is very nice, because of it's very petite size. cappucinnopc.com has similair "wintel" products, and they don't cost any less (in fact, they are usually more) so, for the super-tiny lower power system market, it's a very good product.
and I am NOT an apple fan
the problem with apple is they just so GROSSLY lie about their products, to the point of insulting the competition "What's an intel processor doing in an apple? More than It ever did in a PC!" is downright stupid, considering that it has been proven time and time again that the "important" apps (i.e. photoshop....) for PC and Mac run BETTER on the same hardware in a "Wintel" solution.
Take the Apple 30" Cinema Display vs the Dell 3007FPW. Has NOBODY noticed that they have the EXACT same specifications, yet, for some reason, the dell costs 40% less than the apple screen?
Why does a 750GB seagate 7200RPM, 16mb, sata2 harddrive cost $599 in a mac pro, when @ frys it costs $350?
Why does apple charge for .# updates? 10.0 -> 10.1 costs money!
Everything apple sells costs more, when it's NOT any different than the same part in the pc world.
DVD burners are $100 a pop. 4GB of (DDR2, ECC, FB, 4 x1GB) ram for the mac pro is $1,400, yet I can buy name brand, that very same stuff, for $652.
Any OEM counts on people who "just want it now" to buy the extras and upgrades from them. Apple does it, Dell does it, HP does it...
That's why a smart consumer who has some skill (or knows a kid that does) will get the RAM / Upgrade / whatever seperate, and install it themselves.
Photoshop is slow because it's being run in Rosetta right now, along with MS Office 2004... I'm not going to speculate at how fast the new universal version is as I am not eligible for the beta, but Photoshop 7 isn't all that bad. CS2 has always felt dog slow to me, so I don't know what to think.
I'm not even going to argue the 10.x upgrades. We've done it to death in the apple forum everytime the new OS's come out.
In my mind its not suprise, isn't part of the Mac marketing being elite and willing to pay for it as a status symbol, other wise what is the point of having a Mac?
Granted they are slowing making progress since realizing that yes their hardware has been crap forcing them to move to x86 based platforms. But its still overpriced elitist crap. If you need to feel special in the world go ahead and buy one, but the rest of us have stopped caring years ago : )
Granted they are slowing making progress since realizing that yes their hardware has been crap forcing them to move to x86 based platforms. But its still overpriced elitist crap. If you need to feel special in the world go ahead and buy one, but the rest of us have stopped caring years ago : )
stonedwaldo420
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2005
- Messages
- 505
Like everyone else, I am not in any way surprised. This is what Apple does, and all the Mac !!!!!!s just pony up more $$$.
The way I look at it, they are punishing people for a serious lack of intelligence. After all, they are already paying $179 for something they could get for about $120.. plus they will have to put up with proprietary apple shit. I know some poor suckers that use airport and got seriously shafted.
Oh well. I am just glad that everyone reading these forums is hopefully too smart to fall for Apples BS.. well.. except the Mac !!!!!!s!!
And there is diffidently a double standard. Apple does this stuff all the time and everyone acts surprised. Like when they found out that that crook Steve Jobs was backdating stock options. I can recall stories that actually talked about Apples consumer friendly, responsible company reputation. What do people expect? Apple has LIED in virtually every advertisement they have run over the last two decades.. they are also consistently ranked as one of the most environmentally irresponsible computer companies in existence. But alas, those hippy mac !!!!!!s simply ignore this info and keep buying iPods and iMacs.
The way I look at it, they are punishing people for a serious lack of intelligence. After all, they are already paying $179 for something they could get for about $120.. plus they will have to put up with proprietary apple shit. I know some poor suckers that use airport and got seriously shafted.
Oh well. I am just glad that everyone reading these forums is hopefully too smart to fall for Apples BS.. well.. except the Mac !!!!!!s!!
And there is diffidently a double standard. Apple does this stuff all the time and everyone acts surprised. Like when they found out that that crook Steve Jobs was backdating stock options. I can recall stories that actually talked about Apples consumer friendly, responsible company reputation. What do people expect? Apple has LIED in virtually every advertisement they have run over the last two decades.. they are also consistently ranked as one of the most environmentally irresponsible computer companies in existence. But alas, those hippy mac !!!!!!s simply ignore this info and keep buying iPods and iMacs.
All you Apple hating !!!!!!s kill me. Please read the real reason:
The reason Apple has to do this has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with a little thing called Sarbanes Oxley , which are accounting and practices set forth to protect shareholders. It was set in place by the US Government for accountability practices after companies like Enron milked its share holders.
What it boils down to is this: If you invent a product to go to market you must get board approval since they are theoretically representing the share holders. That means before any Engineering can be done, it must be approved. Now, if you ship a product and later put more resources into said product for "enhancements" that weren't originally approved, you open yourself up to a shareholder's lawsuit. You spent engineering manpower to add said enhancements, hence you are in violation of Sarbanes Oxley.
BUT, if you show that money can be made by showing a possibility of future revenue stream, then you are adding to the TCO of the product. Hence, the dollar amount chosen.
-E
The reason Apple has to do this has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with a little thing called Sarbanes Oxley , which are accounting and practices set forth to protect shareholders. It was set in place by the US Government for accountability practices after companies like Enron milked its share holders.
What it boils down to is this: If you invent a product to go to market you must get board approval since they are theoretically representing the share holders. That means before any Engineering can be done, it must be approved. Now, if you ship a product and later put more resources into said product for "enhancements" that weren't originally approved, you open yourself up to a shareholder's lawsuit. You spent engineering manpower to add said enhancements, hence you are in violation of Sarbanes Oxley.
BUT, if you show that money can be made by showing a possibility of future revenue stream, then you are adding to the TCO of the product. Hence, the dollar amount chosen.
-E
Oh wow, a comedian. Great way to incite intellectual stimulation. Since that has yet to be proven, thats a great form of libel for defamation of character. Nicely done!
That's an absolute bullshit argument. HP releases BIOS updates all the time that fix flaws or add functionality. Microsoft adds features to Windows all the time (Windows Media Player 9/10/11, Windows Movie Maker 2, etc.). Linksys releases updated firmware for their routers that adds features.
This isn't about Sarbanes-Oxley. This is about Apple wanting to make some quick profit and using Sarbanes-Oxley as a cover.
5150Joker
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2005
- Messages
- 4,568
Big deal its only $5.
...and then another 5, and another, and another, and another. Tip of the iceberg. If they can get away with it once, they would make it routine.
just so you all know, once vista ships, the windows update site will now have prices next to each update, each price is determined by the level of severity.. lol.. could you imagine, apple are greedy bastards and apparently do not 'take care' of their community
I'd have to agree. I could see if this was some HUGE modification or something like that. But a minor upgrade? If this forced them to charge for this firmware upgrade then that would mean that everyone else should have to charge also. But the fact that nobody else charges for bios upgrades or firmware upgrades it would point to the fact that this is just something Apple wanted to do to do nickel and dime people, or I guess in this case $5 and $10 them.
Tell me, out of all the products Apple ships, how much money do you think they will make on a $5 upgrade? I'm sorry that you don't believe this is a Sarbanes issue, but BIOS updates are par for the course on motherboards. If you ship a product for a given time, and then source newer components, that is fine. If you update the originally intended design by adding a new feature set, its a SOX issue. You aren't servicing an older product until End of Life, you are adding features not intended during its initial launch, nor was N support mentioned..
Now, if they would have increased the initial cost of said product by $5, its considered a roll up, and a much neater way to avoid controversy. But since this is Apple, everyone that complains this is BS is giving them free PR.
-E
HardOCP News
[H] News
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Well, to be honest with you here, the general media polish Apple's apple so hard it isn't even funny.
If Gates backdated stocks for a quick $20 million profit, admitted he did it but "didn't know the implications" and then had Steve Ballmer clear him in an internal "investigation" the public would crap.
Apple customers will pay for a new OS every year...go through the upgrade headaches and driver / software incompatibility pains just to be sold another OS next year...and they BRAG about that. Apple cannibalizes its customers by selling them an iPod and then selling them an "upgraded version" 3 months later, rinse repeat.
BUT...if they put up with it...who cares
Jobs admitted it, flat out. He said he didnt understand the implications or that it was wrong. (see the example listed above)
supergrover
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
- Messages
- 169
You have to be kidding me. The 'unmentioned' features (using this logic) argument could then be added to new cpu support in MB updates, since the new, unreleased cpu's obviously were not mentioned in the mobo's documentation when bought.
And how about new resolutions/AA options in a driver update? How about crossfire/SLI patches for new games? all are not mentioned when the video cards were purchased. I can think of many situations like this, as can anyone else in here if they applied some common sense.
I love this argument as well. I am a lead computer teacher /network admin in a high school with 120 staff, and 1400 students each new school year. I get asked by 2-3 people per week on what my thoughts are about a potential new computer purchase. Occasionally, I am presented with an Apple system and sometimes I advise on the purchase, and sometimes I don't. More often than not, people take my advice. This $5 for an update 'business' is something that I will point out to everyone who comes to me wondering if they should buy an Apple. I will also point this out at school board meetings where 40 High Schools get together to decide on what hardware / software we will purchase that school year.
I bet there are many other people in a similar situation to myself who will pass on this "free PR".
messerchmidt
Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
- Messages
- 615
grab it off bittorrent or limewire and give them f*ck all. stupid backwards company.
Caffeinated
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,451
Dear God - hardware and software would pretty much cease to work together at all if this became status quo. SOX my butt. If it weren't for updated drivers, patches and firmware upgrades, none of us would even *be* on this forum. We'd all be using OS/2 or playing with our Commodores, blissfully unaware that the internet as we now know it never happened because we all had mismatched IP stacks.
Now everyone, please stop talking about this so loudly - you'll give the other companies ideas!
Now everyone, please stop talking about this so loudly - you'll give the other companies ideas!
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
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- 37,743
Not quite the same thing. Fixes do not apply to Sarbanes-Oxley, and BIOS Updates aren't going to turn a 100 Mb Nic to a 1Gig. I am not sure, but software does not seem to fit in this category. Now if you were going to make an argument that had some basis of logic instead of following the Apple Sauce bandwagon, you can say they should have just marketed it as .n in the first place. Personally, its a lot better then paying 60-100 bucks for a new wireless card, not everyone is going to need/want it...don't see what all the crying is. If anyone should be barked at, its the US government for enacting Sarbanes-Oxley in the first place.
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
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Interesting comarison, but was 1080p advertised as a capability on the xbox in the first place? This seems to be what SOX is about as it was not featured originally on the macs its capable on.
No, 1080p was not an advertised feature when the Xbox 360 shipped. It was new functionality that was added nearly a year later. Over the course of 13+ months on the market, Xbox 360 has added several *hundred* new features via downloadable firmware updates, and none of them have required additional payment from customers.