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Apple Growth Will Draw Malware Attacks

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The award for “stating the obvious” goes to the author of this story. How long have PC users been saying this?

As Apple continues to grow its worldwide market share and the company's products find their way into more business environments, attackers are certain to follow and create greater volumes of exploits aimed at vulnerabilities in the company's software, security experts contend.
Click to expand...
 
I just think it's funny how every trojan, virus or exploit is not counted on the Mac side for various opportunistic reasons. Each of those things would be and are counted on the PC side as a threat.
 
Ya, it's funny. For the longest time the die hard Linux/Mac OSX users have spoken about their OS of choice and the security it offers. It's just a #'s game and always has been.
 
It doesn't matter. BSD and nix systems are inherently immune to malware like Windows is. With UNIX systems, everything must run through the front door that the user holds the key for. It doesn't matter if there's a security hole or not, you still have to type in your password and press "OK" to let malware inside your computer. There simply is no back door to come through.

User stupidity cannot be helped, and there will always be a handful of users dumb enough to give their root password to the next Blaster worm, but most of the population are smart enough to go "hmm...why does this website want my root password?"
 
InorganicMatter said:
It doesn't matter. BSD and nix systems are inherently immune to malware like Windows is. With UNIX systems, everything must run through the front door that the user holds the key for. It doesn't matter if there's a security hole or not, you still have to type in your password and press "OK" to let malware inside your computer. There simply is no back door to come through.

User stupidity cannot be helped, and there will always be a handful of users dumb enough to give their root password to the next Blaster worm, but most of the population are smart enough to go "hmm...why does this website want my root password?"
Click to expand...

You know as do all of us here at [H]ard know.

They will find a way. It's just a matter of time and when.
 
InorganicMatter said:
There simply is no back door to come through.

User stupidity cannot be helped, and there will always be a handful of users dumb enough to give their root password to the next Blaster worm, but most of the population are smart enough to go "hmm...why does this website want my root password?"
Click to expand...
There have been several privilege escalation holes over the years, in both OS X and *nix just like in Windows.

Most malware spreads by social means and it's surprising that so many people ignore browser warnings and install that stuff anyways.
 
My initial comment on the article is ... no DUH Einstein.

InorganicMatter said:
User stupidity cannot be helped, and there will always be a handful of users dumb enough to give their root password to the next Blaster worm, but most of the population are smart enough to go "hmm...why does this website want my root password?"
Click to expand...

Inorganic, could you please tell me how what you've described above is any different in Vista? Oh it's not? I guess you must have forgotten that the root prompt is no different in *nix than the UAC is in Vista.

Enjoy your increased attacks.

That is all.
 
As over the phone tech support for Comcast, I am continually surprised that people can be so stupid to let their PC get infected in the first place. I've been using the internet with nothing but the Windows firewall and no AV protection for YEARS and I still don't have virus issues or malware. Is it so hard to use the internet properly? I keep thinking that most of those people should not be allowed an internet connection in the first place. What is so hard about downloading from trusted sources and not going to the wrong websites without proper knowledge on how to circumvent any kind of request for download. Then again most of these people don't know a power cord from a co-ax cable.
 
riot8ap said:
If it isn't news why post it on the [H] frontpage?
Click to expand...

Who said it isn't newsworthy?


I get this question / comment from time to time on different subjects "why is this on the front page" or my personal favorite "and this is news how?" Sometimes things are posted because they are:

Funny
Stupid
Stupidly Funny
Great Discussion Material
Hot Topics
Interesting
Horribly Bad / Misinformed Articles in Need of [H] Reader Input
Totally Obvious
Rumors
Random


...and so on. Obviously this news item was VERY important to you, you clicked on the link, read the post and then responded to the thread. ;)
 
webdev511 said:
Inorganic, could you please tell me how what you've described above is any different in Vista? Oh it's not? I guess you must have forgotten that the root prompt is no different in *nix than the UAC is in Vista.

Enjoy your increased attacks.

That is all.
Click to expand...

Vista's UAC is very different, and in its default state is inherently flawed. It does not ask for a password, and it permits you to have your Administrator account password-free. Both are very bad, and automatically open back doors. On my Vista machine, I set a password on my Administrator account, and I set my UAC prompts to behave like Unix system: always require a password (it can be done through the security policy MMC snap-in). This is how it should be by default, and Microsoft's screwup of not making it the default has rendered the entire thing useless; malware can and will written that automatically hits "continue," and the way prompts behave promotes users to simply hit "continue" without paying attention.
 
InorganicMatter said:
malware can and will written that automatically hits "continue,"
Click to expand...
Shens. UAC has many flaws, but that's not one of them. The default mode for the UAC prompt has secure desktop enabled which locks out other applications. The Continue prompt can't be bypassed automatically unless you've already been hacked.

Anyone too lazy to bother with security isn't going to be helped by typing a password or not anyways. OS X doesn't require a password during set up if you don't want to use one, so it could have the same click through problem too.

UAC is a good effort, but it is still too rough around the edges and certain ways Windows works will probably prevent it from ever working well... until a lot of backwards compatibility is tossed or MS figures out a compatible/transparent way of remapping the file system to a more secure scheme.
 
InorganicMatter said:
Vista's UAC is very different, and in its default state is inherently flawed. It does not ask for a password, and it permits you to have your Administrator account password-free. Both are very bad, and automatically open back doors. On my Vista machine, I set a password on my Administrator account, and I set my UAC prompts to behave like Unix system: always require a password (it can be done through the security policy MMC snap-in). This is how it should be by default, and Microsoft's screwup of not making it the default has rendered the entire thing useless; malware can and will written that automatically hits "continue," and the way prompts behave promotes users to simply hit "continue" without paying attention.
Click to expand...

Yep, UAC is so annoying that many people turn it off.

User: Open {Game}
Vista: Are you sure you want to run {Game}?
User: Yes -> Continue

Now I don't remember the frequency that OS X does it, but it was only for installing things iirc, not just using them.
 
Computers have long held to this: GIGO Garbage In Garbage Out. And this is cause users are Human or the computer has programs created by Humans for the computers Humans own. :D
 
InorganicMatter said:
Vista's UAC is very different, and in its default state is inherently flawed. It does not ask for a password, and it permits you to have your Administrator account password-free. Both are very bad, and automatically open back doors. On my Vista machine, I set a password on my Administrator account, and I set my UAC prompts to behave like Unix system: always require a password (it can be done through the security policy MMC snap-in). This is how it should be by default, and Microsoft's screwup of not making it the default has rendered the entire thing useless; malware can and will written that automatically hits "continue," and the way prompts behave promotes users to simply hit "continue" without paying attention.
Click to expand...

You obviously have no idea how UAC works. When Vista displays a UAC prompt, it suspends all operations other than the keyboard and mouse inputs. That's why the desktop appears greyed out. No program would be able to hit the continue button because no program is running during the UAC prompt. The only way a program could automatically confirm the UAC prompt is if it had already compromised the Vista kernel, which is nearly impossible to do without triggering another UAC prompt.

Vista UAC is not "very different". Sure, it doesn't require a password by default. That doesn't make it any less secure. Programs still can't do anything unless you tell them to. It's just a little easier for you to do so.

The only other difference is that Vista is stricter than Mac and *nix in that there are more actions that trigger a UAC prompt. That certainly doesn't decrease security and may even provide better security in rare situations.

Please lean how UAC works before declaring it ineffective.

I do agree that Vista makes it easier for a user to click continue without noticing. But still, if they user pays attention, the security system is effective.

UAC is a good effort, but it is still too rough around the edges and certain ways Windows works will probably prevent it from ever working well... until a lot of backwards compatibility is tossed or MS figures out a compatible/transparent way of remapping the file system to a more secure scheme.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? What is it about Windows that prevents UAC from working well?
 
HOCP4ME said:
You obviously have no idea how UAC works. When Vista displays a UAC prompt, it suspends all operations other than the keyboard and mouse inputs. That's why the desktop appears greyed out. No program would be able to hit the continue button because no program is running during the UAC prompt. The only way a program could automatically confirm the UAC prompt is if it had already compromised the Vista kernel, which is nearly impossible to do without triggering another UAC prompt.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure thats 100% true, as the UAC can be in the background if you are multi tasking. I've had to click down to it on the task bar / alt-tab over to it to accept. So while it might halt programs while its active, it doesn't halt everything all the time.

Easy example is browse the web while running an installer, sometimes the UAC won't take focus, other times it does.
 
Yep, it will happen more and more. People have been saying this for years and macheads have been denying it for years.

What can be done, can be undone. I bet there are hundreds of holes in OSX. Just no one has cared enough to find them and exploit them yet because it's not worth their time for something so irrelevant.

Yes, people are stupid but they are also totally and 100% ignorant of security issues and how to properly use and protect a computer and totally lack common sense and too trusting.

There should be a class and test given before someone is allowed to own a computer that is hooked to the Internet.
 
Here's my favorite:

"That really isn't a Mac virus. It is just a virus for certain Mac exclusive pieces of software."
 
And the denial lives on.

Ah well, it'll be amusing when shit hits the fan. Someone make popcorn :D
 
Azhar said:
And the denial lives on.

Ah well, it'll be amusing when shit hits the fan. Someone make popcorn :D
Click to expand...

*Hooks up the projector to his Windows PC*

*Pops the popcorn*

*Sits back and watches the zealots run around with there head cut off*
 
I usually would hate to see something bad happen to people, but I have been given so much grief from Mac owners, including three ex-girlfriends over the years about how I am an idiot for owning a PC. I have even had suggestions that having a Mac shows that you are politically liberal, and if you have a PC and love it, you are part of the unwashed masses, sheep.

Now I am not talking about everyone who owns a Mac. Personally I like them for the most part. It's just the hard core Apple fans I would like to see get a really bad virus just once. That would give me a tad bit of schadenfreude I am afraid. ;)
 
HOCP4ME said:
You obviously have no idea how UAC works. When Vista displays a UAC prompt, it suspends all operations other than the keyboard and mouse inputs. That's why the desktop appears greyed out. No program would be able to hit the continue button because no program is running during the UAC prompt. The only way a program could automatically confirm the UAC prompt is if it had already compromised the Vista kernel, which is nearly impossible to do without triggering another UAC prompt.
Click to expand...

I've been playing games with a UAC prompt in the background before - it popped under the game when the game tried to automatic-update, and was waiting for me when I quit playing. If you can play a game with UAC going on, I could easily see exploits on the horizon.

HOCP4ME said:
Vista UAC is not "very different". Sure, it doesn't require a password by default. That doesn't make it any less secure. Programs still can't do anything unless you tell them to. It's just a little easier for you to do so.
Click to expand...

Wrong, it makes it horribly less secure.

HOCP4ME said:
The only other difference is that Vista is stricter than Mac and *nix in that there are more actions that trigger a UAC prompt. That certainly doesn't decrease security and may even provide better security in rare situations.
Click to expand...

It decreases security through decreasing the user's care-o-meter. The world already is tired of waiting for Windows to do something (most of us spend 8 hours a day on a crappy work computer dealing with Windows), UAC prompts popping up every time the user tries to do something is only going to make people take a UAC prompt lightly, as they should not.

HOCP4ME said:
I do agree that Vista makes it easier for a user to click continue without noticing. But still, if they user pays attention, the security system is effective.
Click to expand...

It seems you have proved my above point.

Like I said, UAC is a step in the right direction, but like all Microsoft products, their first attempt gets a grade of C- (that is, just barely acceptable, enough so they can shove it out the door and beat their competitors to the punch).
 
L33t Masta said:
As over the phone tech support for Comcast, I am continually surprised that people can be so stupid to let their PC get infected in the first place. I've been using the internet with nothing but the Windows firewall and no AV protection for YEARS and I still don't have virus issues or malware. Is it so hard to use the internet properly? I keep thinking that most of those people should not be allowed an internet connection in the first place. What is so hard about downloading from trusted sources and not going to the wrong websites without proper knowledge on how to circumvent any kind of request for download. Then again most of these people don't know a power cord from a co-ax cable.
Click to expand...

I generally agree, but last week, i was shocked when I came in and symantec AV had a message saying it'd found some sort of trojan on my system. Don't recall the name, but it's been around for 3 or 4 years. If it came from a web site (it certainly wasn't from an email), it certainly wasn't one that was obviously risky. It's a work machine, and I don't go to oddball sites at work.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I've been playing games with a UAC prompt in the background before - it popped under the game when the game tried to automatic-update, and was waiting for me when I quit playing. If you can play a game with UAC going on, I could easily see exploits on the horizon.



Wrong, it makes it horribly less secure.



It decreases security through decreasing the user's care-o-meter. The world already is tired of waiting for Windows to do something (most of us spend 8 hours a day on a crappy work computer dealing with Windows), UAC prompts popping up every time the user tries to do something is only going to make people take a UAC prompt lightly, as they should not.



It seems you have proved my above point.

Like I said, UAC is a step in the right direction, but like all Microsoft products, their first attempt gets a grade of C- (that is, just barely acceptable, enough so they can shove it out the door and beat their competitors to the punch).
Click to expand...

Okay, it seems you consider making the user care less a security flaw. But the fact remains that, if the user pays attention as he is supposed to, his Vista system will be secure.
 
HOCP4ME said:
The only other difference is that Vista is stricter than Mac and *nix in that there are more actions that trigger a UAC prompt. That certainly doesn't decrease security and may even provide better security in rare situations.

I do agree that Vista makes it easier for a user to click continue without noticing. But still, if they user pays attention, the security system is effective.

Care to elaborate? What is it about Windows that prevents UAC from working well?
Click to expand...

I think that the excessive prompts are what would cause one to click without looking. I haven't used vista in just under a year, but I do recall finding UAC excessively annoying, because it prompted me several times for the same thing, albeit with slightly different messages.

I didn't have the PW on, so if only one asked for a PW and you could turn off the the others, I'd defintely go for the PW. An occasional password doesn't bug me, but excessive prompts do.

I find Kaspersky's annoying, because it prompts me too much for things that seem pretty innocuous....but I'm always worry about adding any shared dll, to the trusted zone. It is getting better (after about a month of use, but I still get too many prompts.
 
When OS X does turn ugly, it's going to be a lot more uglier than windows, because there's a lot more people who know how to fix a windows PC than a Mac. Even though OSX is based off BSD, Apple keeps everything it can pretty tightly sealed. Microsoft, while no Linux, is a lot more developer friendly. I think we are all going to see that lead to more secure software in the end.

All the mac zealots will stop talking when they are forced to ship their precious macs off to Apple to be fixed for a premium.
 
nilepez said:
I generally agree, but last week, i was shocked when I came in and symantec AV had a message saying it'd found some sort of trojan on my system. Don't recall the name, but it's been around for 3 or 4 years. If it came from a web site (it certainly wasn't from an email), it certainly wasn't one that was obviously risky. It's a work machine, and I don't go to oddball sites at work.
Click to expand...

Ew. It's probably nothing to worry about but good to catch it. I ran BitDefender for the first time the other day and it gave 0 viruses so it's cool.
 
sdlvx said:
When OS X does turn ugly, it's going to be a lot more uglier than windows, because there's a lot more people who know how to fix a windows PC than a Mac. Even though OSX is based off BSD, Apple keeps everything it can pretty tightly sealed. Microsoft, while no Linux, is a lot more developer friendly. I think we are all going to see that lead to more secure software in the end.

All the mac zealots will stop talking when they are forced to ship their precious macs off to Apple to be fixed for a premium.
Click to expand...

Gee, you pay X amount of money for a Intel pc with a custom O/S, you get your "cool" factor on, and uh oh... the impossible happened!. You get a virus. Now, instead of letting your neighbor/co-worker/child/etc clean the computer for you its off to the Mac store. You think they don't want it that way? Mac's have been fleecing people for years with their overpriced and overhyped computers. Yeah, for a while they did kill the imbc group of pc's in multimedia/video usage, but thats all but changed now.....

Also, I have 4 pc's online. In the last 5 years only 1 of them has gotten a virus, and that was a user error on my wife's part (got suckered into clicking on a site that had a nasty embedded). It took me all of about 30 minutes to completely wipe it off the system.
 
I can't see that these things would happen soon, not because of Mac has a better security but couldn't be bothered to creat a Mac threat yet, the number of Mac user is still insignificant to them.
 
alg7_munif said:
I can't see that these things would happen soon, not because of Mac has a better security but hackers couldn't be bothered to create a Mac threat yet, the number of Mac user is still insignificant to them.
Click to expand...

forgot the word hackers :p
 
nilepez said:
I find Kaspersky's annoying, because it prompts me too much for things that seem pretty innocuous....but I'm always worry about adding any shared dll, to the trusted zone. It is getting better (after about a month of use, but I still get too many prompts.
Click to expand...

Yeah Kaspersky annoyed the hell out of me...

Put in CD
Press Install
- Popup - Are you sure you want this file to _____
Few files install
- Popup - Are you sure you want this file to _______
Repeat above like 20 times =\
 
I was in the mac store the other day and the employee was saying how mac is innately better than windows and cuz it's a mac which is innately better and unhackable you don't need firewall/av..... I can't wait for macs to get hacked lol.
 
Damn this popcorn is good.

Anyone else want some? The show is about to start and the previews are kick ass
 
Being a PC gamer recreationally (SP?) and Apple user professionally, I can with certainly say I am neither a PC or Mac "zealot". That said, I remember an article somewhere mentioning that Apple had one of their servers up with no firewall or antivirus or anything, and challenged any hacker to change their website in any way for a reward of $1,000,000, and nobody could do it or something like that. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

*googles furiously*
 
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