Apple gets wet

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Interesting... I'm thinking that their liquid cooling will be quite a bit different the normal watercooling we see in PC's... just because it's apple.

I'd love to have one of those dual G5's though...
 
kinda lame they need watercooling to keep those new chips cool enough to run. and i thought the new prescotts were bad
 
Well that's just the strategy of apple, making something fancy and very attractive that people can show off with.

And people prepared to spend 3000$ on such a system DO want to have complete silence at this speed.
 
The cooling system they have used seems a little lame. The could have at least used Y splitters to seperate each of the CPUs rather than a closed loop. They'll have one hot and one cold CPU! Sounds like apple needs to employ some O/Cers. I do like the idea of "thermal zones" tho.

Piccies
 
Mac once again, fails to be innovative. I wonder how many people are going to be paying the premium for the liquid cooling?
 
xtop said:
kinda lame they need watercooling to keep those new chips cool enough to run. and i thought the new prescotts were bad
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Its not that the *need* water cooling to run. Apple just wanted to make their computer's quieter, and water is an excellent solution to that. If you take a look at the wattage of the G5's, its actually pretty low. I don't remember exactly what it is off the top of my head in the desktops, but Im pretty sure the ones they use in the XServe's using 90nm fab process only use like 16 watts of power. I mean, the G5's that don't have watercooling have passive heatsinks on them! How many P4's can boast that?

And kronchev, I don't see how you can say that Apple "fails to be innovative." They are the first major (loosely) OEM to have a watercooling option on their computers. It may not be the best possible setup for dual processors, but they don't need it because they don't produce that much heat. And the prices of the systems are the same as they were before...
 
Dark Ember said:
And kronchev, I don't see how you can say that Apple "fails to be innovative." They are the first major (loosely) OEM to have a watercooling option on their computers. It may not be the best possible setup for dual processors, but they don't need it because they don't produce that much heat. And the prices of the systems are the same as they were before...
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Yeah, you can't diss Apple. I had one way back, and although I would never go back unless someone gave me one... you still have to give Apple credit for their work. I mean, how long will it be before we see anything like this (OEM Watercooling ) in the PC world? It'll be a while, unless someone just does it to copy Apple.

Thanks for the pics though, looks cool, although maybe not the greatest cooling setup.
 
stumpy said:
Yeah, you can't diss Apple. I had one way back, and although I would never go back unless someone gave me one... you still have to give Apple credit for their work. I mean, how long will it be before we see anything like this (OEM Watercooling ) in the PC world? It'll be a while, unless someone just does it to copy Apple.

Thanks for the pics though, looks cool, although maybe not the greatest cooling setup.
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they might be the first OEM to put out watercooling but they make it seem like they are uber inventive super gods for it. although apple has always been cock asses about anything theyve done, id be the same way about dell. again they havent done anything NEW, theyve been the first large company to mass produce it first. And has been pointed out, its just a gimmick because they dont need it
 
stumpy said:
I mean, how long will it be before we see anything like this (OEM Watercooling ) in the PC world? It'll be a while, unless someone just does it to copy Apple.
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We won't get technology like that in PCs until 2003.

I don't think they sell them anymore. At least I can't find it on Voodoo's site. Or it maybe something you have to ask for and isn't listed. Not sure. I know I read a review of it and a few other OEM watercooled PCs in CGW 7 or 8 months ago.
 
Yeah, Voodoo had plans for that, and now with Alienware's new ALX line they're using watercooling. And yes, Apple loves gimmicks like this, but it's a nice feature. So what if they don't need the watercooling, I'm sure it keeps things quieter, and lets people brag about their Apples, something it seems all Apple-people absolutely love to do. It does seem like they would have done a Y-splitter though, that mode it quite inefficient, but if they don't give out much heat in the first place maybe it's not a problem.

I mean, the G5's that don't have watercooling have passive heatsinks on them! How many P4's can boast that?
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Yes... :rolleyes: passive. They're not passive, they have fans on them that blow over large heatsinks. And it is innovative to implement a feature like this, but it's an innovation that costs consumers probably $200 more on every machine. It'd be much preferred to just have cooler chips.
 
Ya... 5% marketshare is no small amount of computers... I doubt alienware has .1%

Anyways, the thing on the apple website is marketing not a technical drawing. I doubt the system actually looks like that...
 
You can hardly claim that Voodoo PC's watercooled system was mainstream.

And yeah, they probably don't need it to function. But it's just one more thing that can add to their "coolness" factor. (Although many people don't think they're cool at all. Not me)

Still way too expensive.
 
Deadlierchair said:
So what if they don't need the watercooling, I'm sure it keeps things quieter, and lets people brag about their Apples, something it seems all Apple-people absolutely love to do.
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I'm not sure thats fair - look at the number of PC users that type their entire config into their sigs. That's a form of boasting. Only reason mines not there is I don't have a PC good enough to boast about ;)
 
RebornPhoenix said:
The cooling system they have used seems a little lame. The could have at least used Y splitters to seperate each of the CPUs rather than a closed loop. They'll have one hot and one cold CPU! Sounds like apple needs to employ some O/Cers. I do like the idea of "thermal zones" tho.

Piccies
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No. Actually, the difference in temps between the two chips will probably be less than 1c. They dont need O/Cers because Apple doesnt want their chips O/Ced. Think of all the hardware we kill from doing what we do... would Apple want that same problem with their customers, returning everything because they OC it and kill it? All apple wants is a gimmick to keep the processors running cool and safe and quiet, while the actual unit being completely transparent to the user. The idea is to silence the computer safley without letting the processors overheat, because a dead processor must be covered under warranty. I assure you, the processors together cost more than the cooling system, so it is a good idea to keep them nice and safe in there.
 
Yeah, I guess that's true. From what people have said the G5's don't run that hot. Watercooling doesn't need to be extremely well configured for chips that won't be overclocked and weren't that hot to begin with. Though, I don't think this bad looping configuration will stop anyone from trying to overclock...
 
Apple should probably stop making their own os's and using proprietary hardware, and start making good OEM pcs. They certainly have the resources to do it.
 
Wixard said:
Apple should probably stop making their own os's and using proprietary hardware, and start making good OEM pcs. They certainly have the resources to do it.
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wrong

mac should put all their efforts into just OS and none into hardware. their hardware SUCKS. OSX could be something worth using it if ran on cheap, more powerful hardware like PCs.
 
Yeah, why do they even bother with hardware? AMD, Intel, or even :eek: VIA :eek: chips do the exact same thing, only in a slightly different way. And the way it is now, for the people who use OSX, it's not operating system, but rather, a religion. It can't even run 85% of consumer software. At least Apple should include good support for x86 programs, such as a normal, non-retarded version of Winzip, or games other than Quake III and Warcraft. And no 200% performance drop either.
 
kronchev said:
...their hardware SUCKS. OSX could be something worth using it if ran on cheap, more powerful hardware like PCs.
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osx can only be emulated at 1/40th of the speed on even the fastest pc's where as ive used sub 1ghz g4's that can emulate windows xp seamlessly. ive used a dual 2ghz g5 and i can honestly say it is the fastest computer ive ever used. mac os ran without any lag, whereas i can notice lag running windows xp on my system. mac os is way better than windows, mac hardware is much more efficient than pc hardware.

imo, watercooling the g5 is a big step. if this new cooling method is sucessfull then apple will be the first company to bring watercooling to the desktop. im interested to see the documentation that comes with the computer reguarding the watercooling. id also like to see how they packaged it all in there and what sort of radiator/fan setup they used.
 
There goes the Apple fanatic, who spends 100% of the computer using time trying to work around the limitations of the OS, such as emulating windows...
 
M4d-K10wN said:
There goes the Apple fanatic, who spends 100% of the computer using time trying to work around the limitations of the OS, such as emulating windows...
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i wasnt emulating windows as a workaround to a limitation, i did just because i think that virtual pc, and vmware, are amazing pieces of software and im interested in what they do and how well they do it. i use a mac at work, almost everything that i need to use there is a mac verison for, and everything else you can just use unix source and compile it to run under mac os with x11
 
From Apple's web site. said:
Mac OS X dynamically adjusts the flow of the fluid and the speed of the fans based on temperature.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html
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that sounds like an interesting feature, it would nice to have a pump that would interface thru usb and could control the pump speed according to usage. would be cool to have a plugin to samurize or mbm that would report flow rate or impeller speed of the pump.
 
acascianelli said:
osx can only be emulated at 1/40th of the speed on even the fastest pc's where as ive used sub 1ghz g4's that can emulate windows xp seamlessly. ive used a dual 2ghz g5 and i can honestly say it is the fastest computer ive ever used. mac os ran without any lag, whereas i can notice lag running windows xp on my system. mac os is way better than windows, mac hardware is much more efficient than pc hardware.
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and if you bothered to think you wouldve understood I was saying OSX should be released in x86-native code. and if you seriously think a g4 can emulate XP flawlessly, theres no nice way to say it, but youre an IDIOT. yes Ive used it and it is anything but seamless. mac hardware has been proven inferioir many, many times. I dont like OSX at all but many people do, and my point is if mac concentrated on making not only a usable OS but usable software they would have a REAL winner instead of the market-hogging overpriced behemoth that microsoft has had to bail out of bankrupcy many a time
 
acascianelli said:
that sounds like an interesting feature, it would nice to have a pump that would interface thru usb and could control the pump speed according to usage. would be cool to have a plugin to samurize or mbm that would report flow rate or impeller speed of the pump.
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it would be a sin to make it controlled by the computer. and its easy to make it controlled by temperature, but that fails when you realize that flow rate isnt the biggest influence on temps, at all, not to mention any good pump is SILENT. fans that adjust according to the temp are the best idea since fans are noticable noise.
 
kronchev said:
and if you bothered to think you wouldve understood I was saying OSX should be released in x86-native code. and if you seriously think a g4 can emulate XP flawlessly, theres no nice way to say it, but youre an IDIOT. yes Ive used it and it is anything but seamless. mac hardware has been proven inferioir many, many times. I dont like OSX at all but many people do, and my point is if mac concentrated on making not only a usable OS but usable software they would have a REAL winner instead of the market-hogging overpriced behemoth that microsoft has had to bail out of bankrupcy many a time
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and if you have bothered to think you wouldnve understood i wasnt trying insult you with your post, but thanks for insulting me. is it possible for you to post a response to any thread with out be so bigoted.
 
acascianelli said:
and if you have bothered to think you wouldnve understood i wasnt trying insult you with your post, but thanks for insulting me. is it possible for you to post a response to any thread with out be so bigoted.
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i just dont see how you can say it emulates it flawlessly. you must be comparing it to some screwed up XP installs
 
kronchev said:
i just dont see how you can say it emulates it flawlessly. you must be comparing it to some screwed up XP installs
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i used a g4 800 with 1gb of ram running mac os 10.3 and virtual pc 6, and a stock version of windows xp with teh virtual pc tools loaded and windows xp was running just as good as it would if it was running on a pc.
 
acascianelli said:
i used a g4 800 with 1gb of ram running mac os 10.3 and virtual pc 6, and a stock version of windows xp with teh virtual pc tools loaded and windows xp was running just as good as it would if it was running on a pc.
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then i guess the 3 computers i tried it on with double those stats were broken or something because that was not happening
 
Do you actually use your prescious mac for anything other than fiddling with the OS, or occasionaly post on the forum, when the OS decides it should let you do it?
 
kronchev said:
then i guess the 3 computers i tried it on with double those stats were broken or something because that was not happening
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you know what, your right, i must have been using some magic mac that was more powerfull, and somehow you have the only 3 that werent equiped with the magic chip...

shit, sun and sgi are doing things all wrong, they should just start using amd's cause theyre better anyway right? i mean who needs all those fast risc cpu's anyway. its people like you that ruin these board because you are unwilling to accept anything that is against your ideals. some people like make, some dont, you obviously dont, but just because you had a bad experience with apple doesnt make you an expert about mac. and unless you have a degree in fluid mechanics or something you dont know any more than anyone else in here about water cooling.

apple is taking a big step in introducing watercooling on a desktop computer, but you dont see that because your too blinded by the fact that you dont like macs. same thing with koolance, i think everyone in here knows your deep hatred for koolance, theyre trying to make watercooling a simple and painless transition. but once again you cant see that because your mr. hardass who built his own kit and now you believe that any watercooling kit that comes pre-assembled isnt worth shit.
 
well, for one thing, OSX shouldnt only run smooth on a $4000+ dual G5, it should run on most of their systems, just like XP can run smooth on almost anything. today i went into my friends digital graphics class to help him make a logo for a site in photoshop, and the G4 Emacs with OSX 10.3 are unbarebly slow, they seem like pentium 2's or something, its horrible. It takes 10X longer to load photoshop on them than it does on my 500Mhz p3 laptop. And its not that they just are overloaded from so many people using them, ive used photoshop, flash, and dreamweaver on them when they were brand new and they were really slow still. And those Emacs, and also new Ibooks cost almost $1000, i would expect them to run software without major slowdown. And ive used virtual PC at my local Apple store on a dual G5 system, and it runs pretty damn badly.
 
Do you actually use your prescious mac for anything other than fiddling with the OS, or occasionaly post on the forum, when the OS decides it should let you do it?
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I'm not sure if this is directed solely to that one guy you've been arguing with, or as an open question, but i'll answer anyways.

I use my "prescious" Mac for Photoshop and Illustrator, video editing, page layout work and to monkey around with 3D modeling when I have time. I play games on it, but rarely, because I don't have loads of money to buy games with, and, frankly, I'd rather put 50 dollars into PS2 games because I have more choice, particularly in platformers, which aren't exactly dominated by the PC platform. Games aren't a strong point of Macs because games don't get ported, and I'm willing to deal with that, particularly since I'm not all that big of a FPS fan.

Where are you getting that Apple's hardware has been proven to suck? The G5 isn't as fast as top of the line x86 processors at some tasks, but that doesn't mean it sucks. A 3.2 GHz P4 is more powerful than a 2.8 GHz P4, so that means that the 2.8 GHz sucks right?
 
acascianelli said:
you know what, your right, i must have been using some magic mac that was more powerfull, and somehow you have the only 3 that werent equiped with the magic chip...

shit, sun and sgi are doing things all wrong, they should just start using amd's cause theyre better anyway right? i mean who needs all those fast risc cpu's anyway. its people like you that ruin these board because you are unwilling to accept anything that is against your ideals. some people like make, some dont, you obviously dont, but just because you had a bad experience with apple doesnt make you an expert about mac. and unless you have a degree in fluid mechanics or something you dont know any more than anyone else in here about water cooling.

apple is taking a big step in introducing watercooling on a desktop computer, but you dont see that because your too blinded by the fact that you dont like macs. same thing with koolance, i think everyone in here knows your deep hatred for koolance, theyre trying to make watercooling a simple and painless transition. but once again you cant see that because your mr. hardass who built his own kit and now you believe that any watercooling kit that comes pre-assembled isnt worth shit.
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im just stating my experiance. you think it was fine for you, im telling you it was NOT fine for me.

i see mac is taking a "big step" but i dont think theyre doing anything for bringing it to mainstream. and even if they are, i dont see it affecting this community at all. im sure koolance and other prebuilt kits would go up, but would parts for DIYers? a fraction, maybe. my point is its not that huge and its just a gimmick.
 
kronchev said:
my point is its not that huge and its just a gimmick.
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well, the only way any of us will know for sure is to see how many future macs, or pc's start using watercooling.
 
acascianelli said:
well, the only way any of us will know for sure is to see how many future macs, or pc's start using watercooling.
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eventually all computers are going to have to be liquid cooled
 
Dude, 5% market share IS mainstream... might not be the biggest, but its still mainstream


Anyways, OSX run good on my dads G3, so i assume it works very well on all the G4s and G5s...

I honestly dont know why u guys seem threatened by this... Macs arent aim at u guys, thier for people who dont build thier own computers... Its a much better OS than windows hands down. No security problems, no having random things happen every time you install a program (and dont tell me that hasnt happened to u, it has)
 
I agree with deathBob.

And as far as Apple's software goes, it is quality. I would have to say that as far as stability and ease of use goes, OSX is tops right now. If it could be used on PC's, (and had a few more games for it ) I would have it on my computer. But seeing as it is restricted to Apple computers only, that is not an option and I wouldn't buy an Apple again.

And yes Kronchev, while it's not totally a gimmick (because it provides the neccessary cooling for the procs ) it is mainly just another thing to get the Apple users to buy the new G5's. I mean , if i was buying a Mac right now I'd want one of those. In the Apple world, you can't get any cooler than a dual G5 watercooled with one of their big ass LCD displays.

M4d-K10wN, your rude comments aren't really helping here. While i'm not a mac user, let the people who have them use their mac in peace, rather than making fun of them. Have you ever even used one?
 
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