Apple Faces Class-Action Suit Over Employee Bag Searches

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It would seem Apple is on its way back to court again. Wouldn't it be funny if the plaintiffs gathered at the courthouse and, as each Apple executive and member of its legal team went through the metal detectors, said "how does it feel?" :D


The ruling, from U.S. District Judge William Alsup in San Francisco, is part of a 2013 lawsuit alleging Apple should compensate thousands of store employees for the time taken to search their bags to ensure they did not steal any merchandise. At least two Apple retail store workers complained directly to Chief Executive Tim Cook that the technology company’s policy of checking retail employees’ bags as a security precaution was embarrassing and demeaning, according to court filings made public earlier in the case.
 
I don't see a problem with the searching itself as that is just part of the job. If you work in a court house, jail or many other government type jobs you have to go through metal detectors going in. No big deal. If you work at certain type of utility companies they check that you aren't taking things in or out. So that type of stuff is just part of certain types of jobs. Yeah sucks when you are working for $10 / hour and do that but still by itself it is what it is.

However I do think that should be something they are paid for since they are being forced to do it. If your job required you to get to work 1 hour early to get into a suit and get supplies ready then you should get paid for that hour. This has came up for many other places as far as what you can and can't get away with not paying people for. Laws do side with if you the employer for an employee to do a task that is considered work.
 
Exavior said:
I don't see a problem with the searching itself as that is just part of the job. If you work in a court house, jail or many other government type jobs you have to go through metal detectors going in. No big deal. If you work at certain type of utility companies they check that you aren't taking things in or out. So that type of stuff is just part of certain types of jobs. Yeah sucks when you are working for $10 / hour and do that but still by itself it is what it is.

However I do think that should be something they are paid for since they are being forced to do it. If your job required you to get to work 1 hour early to get into a suit and get supplies ready then you should get paid for that hour. This has came up for many other places as far as what you can and can't get away with not paying people for. Laws do side with if you the employer for an employee to do a task that is considered work.
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Yeah just like you should be paid to fill out your timesheet. If you don't like the policies then find a new job.
 
Wolfkin said:
So how's it going over there in "the land of the free"? ;)
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If its private property land of the free doesn't apply. Just like you aren't free to walk onto my property...I am, however, free to shoot you no questions asked for walking on my property.
 
I think alot of electronic places do this (I hate apple fyi)...

compusa use to do this. I had a friend in highschool... a wealthy kid that stole 20k+ in parts from his compusa store. the security guard was in on it who would clear him on pat downs. they had a whole system in place. only the security guard got fired too who was not a wealthy kid.

stealing isnt worth it! only costs a $1.05 for freedom.
 
kingsleytim said:
Yeah just like you should be paid to fill out your timesheet. If you don't like the policies then find a new job.
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While I agree with you, this can be a very dangerous mindset to have. "Don't like that it takes 4 hours for you to get through security unpaid before you leave? Too bad!"

Sure, that is being a little over the top, but there need to be limits in place.
 
Tuxon86 said:
Or, treat your employee better and they won't steal from you...
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So you think people working in stores should be paid $100/hr?

Even if you treat them well I wouldn't fully trust all of them. You aren't exactly looking for somebody for a high paying job. You are looking for somebody that will work for cheap and be around electronics all day. A lot of which they aren't going to be able to afford without spending 3 weeks worth of pay if not more on it. So they assume the stealing is fine.
 
There is an easy solution for this ... Congress needs to pass a law making all workers Exempt salaried workers ... the only people who should be paid by the hour are contractors (like plumbers, electricians, etc) ... I have had to go through various levels of searches through the years ... it is a fact of life ... too bad Apple can't fire all these employees and hire new ones that actually appreciate being employed :(
 
I see the Apples employees losing this as the Amazon contractors lost their case over the same thing, security checks were unpaid. .
 
I try so hard to defend us 'apple people' but dammit if it isn't the whiniest group of individuals. Makes it hard to defend. It is a job, sometimes you will do things you don't like. Maybe those complaining have never stolen, but enough lost items due to theft and the company has to enforce this. You think working in a jewelry maker or diamond cutter they don't do this? And don't tell me the wage difference, they have lower paid workers there as well.

They shouldn't be allowed to win this because what is next? I should be paid for the time it takes for me to drive to work because work makes me drive there?
 
This isn't really about the searches themselves. I understand the policy and if you don't like being searched every day then quit.

This is about UNPAID TIME. You want to require searches? Fine. But the employee needs to be on the clock while standing in line waiting to be searched and during the search.

Have the clockout machine right at the exit of the employee area so they can punch out, or log out (whatever method they use) after the search is done.

Its bull to stand in line for 15 minutes not being paid.
 
You're not doing any work while standing in line, and how would it take 15 minutes? Last I checked Apple stores don't have hundreds of employees that all clock out at the same time. If you don't like it you can go find another job, I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.
 
OEM said:
If its private property land of the free doesn't apply. Just like you aren't free to walk onto my property...I am, however, free to shoot you no questions asked for walking on my property.
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In what state? Sounds like BS.
 
xIronCrossx said:
You're not doing any work while standing in line, and how would it take 15 minutes? Last I checked Apple stores don't have hundreds of employees that all clock out at the same time. If you don't like it you can go find another job, I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.
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It doesn't matter if you are doing any "work" or not. You are on company time and NOT free to leave. Okay, maybe not 15 minutes. Even if it is TWO minutes, you still need to be compensated.
 
OEM said:
If its private property land of the free doesn't apply. Just like you aren't free to walk onto my property...I am, however, free to shoot you no questions asked for walking on my property.
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I'm sorry Judge Dredd, but trespassing isn't an offense punishable by death. There have to be other circumstances like the threat of harm and junk.

I seriously wonder about the mental health of people who live in the US when stuff like this or the whole, "Let's beat up so-and-so for thinking that way and telling the media about it," comes up. Is it just a hormone thing or what?
 
good for them. i think its wrong to search CUSTOMER bags coming into a store. not for the reason you'd think: its a double standard and sexist. do they ever search a woman's purse? no. until that happens, don't search anything i'm carrying.
 
Exavior said:
I do get paid to fill out my time sheet.
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I don't even turn in a time sheet (or punch a clock). The dough from my employer just rolls into my bank accounts every week. They are welcome to search my office or person anytime they like.

As other have pointed out...we are all free to leave jobs we don't like. Past time for those peeps to start living free. :)
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I'm sorry Judge Dredd, but trespassing isn't an offense punishable by death. There have to be other circumstances like the threat of harm and junk.
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The context of the shooting is not punishment, but self-defense. All I need is the reasonable belief that my life (or the life of another) is threatened. It is also not limited to my own property, but to any location where I have the legal right to be. Carryout, gas station, sidewalk etc. At least in the People's Republic of Michigan and numerous other states concealed weapons permit holders do not have a "duty to retreat". Yes, the shooter will be arrested and may even be charged. Most of the time they will walk. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
timberwolf said:
The context of the shooting is not punishment, but self-defense. All I need is the reasonable belief that my life (or the life of another) is threatened. It is also not limited to my own property, but to any location where I have the legal right to be. Carryout, gas station, sidewalk etc. At least in the People's Republic of Michigan and numerous other states concealed weapons permit holders do not have a "duty to retreat". Yes, the shooter will be arrested and may even be charged. Most of the time they will walk. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Oops. Wanted to start with: A dead guy will have a difficult time rebutting my claim that he was threatening and refused to stop after numerous warnings.
 
timberwolf said:
Oops. Wanted to start with: A dead guy will have a difficult time rebutting my claim that he was threatening and refused to stop after numerous warnings.
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Well first of all, I did include in the thing you posted that you have to perceive a threat of harm. Second of all, the way you're presenting this argument, it seems like you assert you can shoot anyone you wanna at anyplace you want and get away with it because the victim can't testify against you. Not only is that slightly insane sounding, but it ignores witness testimony and video recording equipment that's like literally everywhere.

Anyhow, the part of my post you didn't quote...that part about people seeming a little unstable and aggressive is sort of reinforced by your comments. Then again, most guys like to brag about "what I could do if I wanted" but aren't really that unrestrained in real life so I'll just take this stuff with a dose of the usual salt and pretend you're only showboating for the forum's readers.
 
i hide my gun in my neckbeard and my bullets in my moms basement. ok only one of those statements are true because my dad still has all my hunting bullets lol.
 
MrTroy03 said:
It doesn't matter if you are doing any "work" or not. You are on company time and NOT free to leave. Okay, maybe not 15 minutes. Even if it is TWO minutes, you still need to be compensated.
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Have you ever even worked a minimum wage (or close to) type job? You don't get paid by the minute, you get paid by the half hour usually. 2 minutes is not going to add anything to your pay, and you can always get a different job. It's a minimum wage job FFS.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Well first of all, I did include in the thing you posted that you have to perceive a threat of harm. Second of all, the way you're presenting this argument, it seems like you assert you can shoot anyone you wanna at anyplace you want and get away with it because the victim can't testify against you. Not only is that slightly insane sounding, but it ignores witness testimony and video recording equipment that's like literally everywhere.

Anyhow, the part of my post you didn't quote...that part about people seeming a little unstable and aggressive is sort of reinforced by your comments. Then again, most guys like to brag about "what I could do if I wanted" but aren't really that unrestrained in real life so I'll just take this stuff with a dose of the usual salt and pretend you're only showboating for the forum's readers.
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Yeah a few of the comments about being able to shoot others that "walk on their property" and "he's dead so i can say he threatened me" -- I chalk up to internet tough guy syndrome.

I'm from Texas (still living here) - and grew up with guns, have a concealed handgun license, and the ability to carry a fire arm most places. Love me some guns, but it's one of those things where the LAST thing I'd want to do is have to pull it out and actually use it. There are many many laws that say what you can and can't do with a gun and a good person understands and follows them all.

If someone seriously has the urge to shoot another human being just because they walked on his property... that's a red flag for some serious mental issue right there.
 
On topic: I have no problem with any company doing reasonable searches, long as I'm being paid for my time. I'll stand in a line for 15 minutes twice a day if you want, but you will be paying me for it.

if you had the normal 5 day week job - you would be standing in line for roughly 130 hours per year, nobody in their right mind would stand in line for 5.4 days worth of time for free.
 
I am kinda with Apple on this. If you signed the TOS that said this was going to happen and Apple has employees that like to steal things then I am all for apple checking.
 
I've got no problems with the security checks as long as employees are paid for their time they have to waste doing this.

Security checks being demeaning is not going to win them this case.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Have you ever even worked a minimum wage (or close to) type job? You don't get paid by the minute, you get paid by the half hour usually. 2 minutes is not going to add anything to your pay, and you can always get a different job. It's a minimum wage job FFS.
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Yes. I worked at Wal-Mart for minimum wage in college back when the minimum wage was like $5.25 an hour. You don't get paid by the half hour. You get paid by the hour calculated usually by the minute or if they want rounded to the nearest 15th minute. If they work 1-7 minutes they get to round it down, but any GOOD company does it spot on.

I still get paid by the hour and if I worked 8 hours and 7 minutes I get paid for 8 hours and 7 minutes, not 8 hours even if they could legally round it down. If they work 8 or more they have to round UP to the 15 minute mark, that is IF they decide to round at all. So they either do rounding on the 15 minute basis (1-7 round down, 8-14 round up to 15) or actual time. This same law allows employers to round to the next 5 or 10 minute under the same rules.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs53.htm
 
OEM said:
If its private property land of the free doesn't apply. Just like you aren't free to walk onto my property...I am, however, free to shoot you no questions asked for walking on my property.
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For some reason I picture a kid standing at the edge of your property line doing the hokey pokey.
"You put your right foot in. You take your right foot out. You put your right foot in and you shake it all about...." :D
 
Kelby said:
For some reason I picture a kid standing at the edge of your property line doing the hokey pokey.
"You put your right foot in. You take your right foot out. You put your right foot in and you shake it all about...." :D
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Blam ... and then the sound of dragging and a shovel digging a hole :cool:
 
kbrickley said:
Blam ... and then the sound of dragging and a shovel digging a hole :cool:
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Starting from apple doing bag searches....

That escalated quickly....

Only from the safety of the internet do we go from talking about labor laws to the topic of how some have a desire to shoot humans.
 
Darunion said:
Starting from apple doing bag searches....

That escalated quickly....

Only from the safety of the internet do we go from talking about labor laws to the topic of how some have a desire to shoot humans.
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Not promoting that sentiment myself (but making a jest about it) ... I proposed the much less controversial elimination of hourly wages and putting all workers on salary :cool:
 
Shit, I just walk out at bj wholesale. Check my bag and receipt? No thanks. If you think I stole something call the police, otherwise kindly fuck off. FYI, they've never done anything about it.

As en employee if I was off the clock I'd just walk the fuck out. Fire me? I'll sue your ass for terminating me for retaliation of them violating fair labor practices. I'd also be looking for additional damages.
 
canna said:
Shit, I just walk out at bj wholesale. Check my bag and receipt? No thanks. If you think I stole something call the police, otherwise kindly fuck off. FYI, they've never done anything about it.

As en employee if I was off the clock I'd just walk the fuck out. Fire me? I'll sue your ass for terminating me for retaliation of them violating fair labor practices. I'd also be looking for additional damages.
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That might work in California ... around a third of our States (and growing) are Right to Work states ... you can be fired at any time for any reason (as long as you don't violate a law like discrimination, all the firings are one race or one religion or one sex, then you are good) ... employees don't have a right to be assholes ... I have had to go through X-rays, metal detectors, and body pat downs at various employers ... they should have the right to determine what is needed to guarantee the safety of their business and their employees ;) ... since they are not the government there is no right to privacy, probable cause, or search and seizure to contend with ... a business should have a right to search their employees at any time for any reason (as long as you are on company property and in company employ) :cool:
 
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