Apple Ditching Intel?

[Lucky Star V]

I see Apple moving to AMD as being more likely than moving to ARM.

AMD gets them not only lower prices but potential to license a chip similar to what Sony and Microsoft are doing. There will be a slight performance hi but battery life can be unaffected too much since Apple can choose their own manufacturing at say TSMC (32 vs 28nm). Lisecning is what they are already doing with ARM anyways so still greater profit margins than buying Intel. They also have cash to invest in AMD to help move things along or even send over their engineers to collaborate to make a more power efficient and performing chip.
Apple also gets to retain all their x86 compatibility and user base.

I do potentially see a model between the iPad and the MBA for either a Baytrail/Kabini/ARM unit of some kind.

 

[MRAB54]

sounds par for apple
apple would save a TON of money moving to ARM
and its been known for a wile they want to merge iOS and OSX

If they were a small time pump and dump company then this would make sense. Save money? Sure, upfront. But Intel isn't just about performance, it's all those small features that make a laptop more functional and increase battery life. Not gonna happen, I will cut off my right index finger if it does.

 

[Ashbringer]

I see Apple moving to AMD as being more likely than moving to ARM.

AMD gets them not only lower prices but potential to license a chip similar to what Sony and Microsoft are doing. There will be a slight performance hi but battery life can be unaffected too much since Apple can choose their own manufacturing at say TSMC (32 vs 28nm). Lisecning is what they are already doing with ARM anyways so still greater profit margins than buying Intel. They also have cash to invest in AMD to help move things along or even send over their engineers to collaborate to make a more power efficient and performing chip.
Apple also gets to retain all their x86 compatibility and user base.

I do potentially see a model between the iPad and the MBA for either a Baytrail/Kabini/ARM unit of some kind.

Apple moving to ARM is inevitable. They've proven they aren't attached to a single CPU architecture, and they have a lot to benefit from ARM as opposed to sticking with X86 chips.

#1 ARM is basically in everything but their laptops.
#2 They pump a lot of money into their ARM chips.
#3 The merger between iOS and Mac OS X is inevitable.
#4 Going ARM is cheaper then going X86.

But despite these reasons, Apple would fail horribly by doing this. I also don't expect Apple to do this yet, as the A7 chip probably wouldn't be what they use for this. It's a chip meant to get developers ready for 64-bit, but not the chip used for their ARM based laptops. They'd have to make something beefier.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if they used AMD ARM chips. Remember AMD said they were working on this.

 

[Uvaman]

Apple ditching Intel, HA!
They must be in negotiations.
That being said it might make sense for any company to star expanding ARM to bigger form factors. I believe it will happen, and I believe it is a serious threat to establishment.
Just like MS in leveraging the desktop upon mobile, companies can leverage mobile to desktop/laptop in a way I suppose.

 

[Stimpy88]

If Apple can keep banging out 100% performance increases with each of their chips, and Intel keep "banging out" 5-10% increases in performance, then the two will meet in roughly 1 year on the low end, and 3 years on the high end... That is IF Apple can keep the pace of development which they have started out with.

The A8X should be a very interesting chip, one that could easily handle Netbook tasks.
The A9X could power a low/mid end laptop, and the A10X could really seriously hurt Intel.

 

[Uvaman]

If Apple can keep banging out 100% performance increases with each of their chips, and Intel keep "banging out" 5-10% increases in performance, then the two will meet in roughly 1 year on the low end, and 3 years on the high end... That is IF Apple can keep the pace of development which they have started out with.

The A8X should be a very interesting chip, one that could easily handle Netbook tasks.
The A9X could power a low/mid end laptop, and the A10X could really seriously hurt Intel.

this is true, one can only guess what the coming years of intense arm architecture development will yield.. The outlook looks fantastic , unlike x86 at the beginning arm can be already be fused with mayor video card processing muscle.. Arm has a rocket on cheetah development wise, at least it looks to me that way.. I say x86 at the beginning, i know is being fused now a days.. Arm has in a way potential to take all that progress in x86 and just run with it development wise.

 

[Elios]

Intel and AMD need to be VERY worried about where ARM is going in the next 5 years
fact is most people dont need a top of the line CPU and could get by just fine on a Surface 2 with an ARM chip
same on the apple side
how many 20somethings only use there $3k Macbook air to check facebook
an ARM A8X/A9X mac in the same form factor as the Surface would sell faster then the iphone

 

[TechLarry]

What a load of Horse Puckies.

First, the article doesn't even give a micro-shred of any evidence making the whole thing baseless.

Second, since when did Bloomberg become such an expert on what tech does a company good and what doesn't. If they are so good, why don't they do it themselves.

Third, it would be suicide for Apple. They would lose their economy in programmers (everyone programs for Intel). Major developers have already followed Apple down the scary path of processor changes twice now. I'm not so sure it would happen a third time.

 

[Elios]

Third, it would be suicide for Apple. They would lose their economy in programmers (everyone programs for Intel). Major developers have already followed Apple down the scary path of processor changes twice now. I'm not so sure it would happen a third time.

apple ap store says other wise
and apple gets a cut of every thing on the ap store
they dont get a cut of off the shelf software
its about control

 

[Stoly]

apple ap store says other wise
and apple gets a cut of every thing on the ap store
they dont get a cut of off the shelf software
its about control

I have a dog and its name is BINGO!!!

 

[Ponder]

Second, since when did Bloomberg become such an expert on what tech does a company good and what doesn't. If they are so good, why don't they do it themselves.

Bloomberg did ok.

If anyone is going to make arm desktops/netbooks/apple tvs it would be Apple. Why not? They can still make x86 machines for content creators as needed. They could sell tools to develop for all the various platforms etc. Arm PCs for those who want a web device word processor class machine. Tablets and phones for those on the run. All going through their store hopefully buying media, apps and programs giving them a nice cut on the backend.

If I was Microsoft or Apple this is exactly what I would be focusing on.

 

[Sgraffite]

not really you could still run Windows 8 since it has an ARM ver

The idea was to run the important applications, not just windows 8

 

[Uvaman]

The idea was to run the important applications, not just windows 8

I myself think software, and quickly think microsoft.. but what would microsoft be without the home market?
This invincible company? on corporate alone, really?
I am starting to think thats a bit of a fantasy.. there are plenty large companies that provide complex software such as hospital system.. I really don't think its a big leap to understand, its probably not that important where their big ass complex software sits on top of.
One system I have used I never even see what is sitting on top.. one for 2 years It assumed was windows, yet is was some weird Unix stuff.
Does complex, whole-sale solutions as say complex banking stuff, really depend on MS? I don't know much of computers at that level but I am starting to think not.. I do agree, I think we can easily see rather large software companies simply running those important software in simple ARM-based devices and things of that nature, windows is O.U.T, Intel is O.U.T.
I know for a fact, at my wife's all the management of requests (to do whatever task, maintenance, whatever) is in fact apple-based... this is for a world-wide company, not puny crap.

 

[dr.stevil]

NOT going to happen... there is no benefit in moving to ARM for their PC's except saving a few dollars on hardware. Not only would they have to maintain two versions of OSX (x86 and ARM) but they'd have to deal with the backlash from customers who dual boot Windows and OSX and from developers as well. It would render all their previous software catalog null and void and current ARM chips wouldn't have the chops to emulate x86.

The move to ARM 64bit has nothing to do with their PC division. It has immediate tangible benefits to the iOS platform in performance and security and will eventually become required as mobile devices become more powerful.

sounds par for apple
apple would save a TON of money moving to ARM
and its been known for a wile they want to merge iOS and OSX

Since when? Apple has always maintained that they have no intention of forcing a desktop OS on a mobile device nor a Mobile OS on a desktop. You're thinking of Microsoft

 

[LeninGHOLA]

when has apple every carried about price/performance
all the apple fans will still buy it

... they still need to offer performance. Who is going to buy a new MBP if it's considerably slower than the last gen? MBP and Mac Pros have always had good performance, though perhaps a little on the spendy side. I mean, even the iPhone 5s is a very good performer.

Sometimes I think you guys are less into tech and more into popular trends.

 

[MrGoodbar]

Maybe they are moving back to their retro G4 processors to further deepen the hipster infatuation with Apple. Hell, start reintroducing the Apple Classic with 5.25" dual density floppies, Never mind the fuck anything else. OS is called Kitty Cat for doing useless shit.

 

[Elios]

... they still need to offer performance. Who is going to buy a new MBP if it's considerably slower than the last gen? MBP and Mac Pros have always had good performance, though perhaps a little on the spendy side. I mean, even the iPhone 5s is a very good performer.

Sometimes I think you guys are less into tech and more into popular trends.

hipsters and the trend following collage kids dont care as long as it has the apple logo
they want to be IN or what ever so you have to have the latest apple POS
im sure apple will find a way to spin it to keep that group

 

[LeninGHOLA]

hipsters and the trend following collage kids dont care as long as it has the apple logo
they want to be IN or what ever so you have to have the latest apple POS
im sure apple will find a way to spin it to keep that group

Luckily, at this point, most of their products aren't pieces of shit. Though I have no idea why anyone would buy an iPod anymore.

I realize kids like to make collages, but I'm not following your line of thought here.

 

[jwcalla]

hipsters and the trend following collage kids dont care as long as it has the apple logo
they want to be IN or what ever so you have to have the latest apple POS
im sure apple will find a way to spin it to keep that group

This is more hype than anything else. Yes, more people are buying Apple products. But as a percentage of market share, there is no growth.

 

[heatlesssun]

This is more hype than anything else. Yes, more people are buying Apple products. But as a percentage of market share, there is no growth.

Mac sales have also been declining, not quite as much as PCs sales overall for the last 3 quarters but as you pointed out, there's been no growth.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Luckily, at this point, most of their products aren't pieces of shit. Though I have no idea why anyone would buy an iPod anymore.

I realize kids like to make collages, but I'm not following your line of thought here.

People want music, but don't want to replace their cell phone with an iPhone (I'd be in that group). My phone does music, but I'd like a small MP3 player for jogging and such thats strictly for music. iPod is on my list.

Apple makes good products. So do a lot of other companies. I bought an iPad a couple years ago because it was the best product for me at the time (Microsoft was dragging ass on Surface, so I bit when I needed it). Not a hipster or Apple guy or really care what is trendy. I just buy what I'll use and get the best product for how I will use it.

Apple going ARM isn't that unbelievable. Hell, I know a lot of people that could use an ARM device now - email, web, YouTube, Facebook.... That's the extent of their use. They wouldn't notice if Apple switched over. They wanted an Apple (for whatever reason) for basic computing needs. Hey, they have money to blow, so whatever floats their boat. I think a lot of Apple users are like that. There are others that use 'real' applications to do productive work, and they'd notice.

 

[Ryokurin]

This has been rumored for years, starting when Apple started to make desktop OSX act more like phone OSX in some ways a few versions ago. It will probably be like the Intel transition, the versions are matched up as much as possible until the time comes to where it's necessary and then they can flip the switch. Always have an exit plan so you won't have to scramble when you realize you are in trouble.

 

[Kai]

Didn't this rumor already get put to rest earlier this year?

 

[ep0x73]

Probably unlikely but if AMD could score this contract it would be a massive win for them.
AMD is practically around the block from Apple.
Apple would be solid gravy train for a good company that is barely staying afloat.

 

[grtitan]

Since AMD has both X86 and ARM license, plus very good integrated GPU's, they could make one heck of a CPU for Apple.
Also, granted, the top IPC performance belongs to Intel, but a lot of users dont really need an I7 quad core monster (8 virtual, if you want to get technical).

If the current A7 is that good and is only a dual core CPU, how much better could be it in lets say either a quad or octa configuration?

Personally, I think it is very smart from them to start planning such a move.

It is time to break free from both intel and MS.

 

[JayJapanB]

To the people saying that ARM wont be powerful enough: Do you really think that they will just chuck an A7 in a mbp and call it a day?

Intel make widely varying chips and architecture. Why can't ARM?

 

[Elios]

To the people saying that ARM wont be powerful enough: Do you really think that they will just chuck an A7 in a mbp and call it a day?

Intel make widely varying chips and architecture. Why can't ARM?

ARM is about as close to an open source CPU as there is
any one can make them and the license is nearly free

 

[Arcygenical]

I can see them using some of AMD's APU's in their smaller footprint offerings (iMacs, MBA, Mac Mini etc) for better GPU processing...

But I just can't see AMD matching Intel for power-usage scenario.

 

[ep0x73]

I can see them using some of AMD's APU's in their smaller footprint offerings (iMacs, MBA, Mac Mini etc) for better GPU processing...

But I just can't see AMD matching Intel for power-usage scenario.

With a fat contract so they have more money for R&D they could make the FX line pretty competitive for less money.
The bottom lines usually is money and Apple likes to save it even though they are swimming in billions of cash on hand.

AMD needs a sugar daddy if they want any chance to grow market share and compete, Apple could be that.

 

[Arbit3r]

I could see a switch to AMD, lets face it Apple can likely write a much better OS to schedule threads and the like then MS.

AMD would be a whole lot cheaper and stick with x86.

ARM is even cheaper

ARM devices will get slaughtered in performance and at $1k+ that's going to be a problem.

It's one thing not to have the greatest price to performance ratios. It's another to get completely destroyed in performance at high prices especially for a conventional laptop.

Option 1 - ARM - Changing OS architecture would be potentially very costly in customer loyalty...
Option 2 - AMD - Potentially cheaper, but there generally is a performance hit...

I dont see it happening for a while, at least

I will make a small comparison of ARM preformance vs amd and intel, well general.
intel is like a Bugatti, AMD at this point is about a ford mustand/corvette area, Arm is a Prius. Most people have missed that Intel has one their Atom chips in the area of same power usage of Arm cpu's and its FASTER then then cpu apple sticks in their 5s.

If Apple can keep banging out 100% performance increases with each of their chips, and Intel keep "banging out" 5-10% increases in performance, then the two will meet in roughly 1 year on the low end, and 3 years on the high end... That is IF Apple can keep the pace of development which they have started out with.

The A8X should be a very interesting chip, one that could easily handle Netbook tasks.
The A9X could power a low/mid end laptop, and the A10X could really seriously hurt Intel.

Doubt yea send me some that weed you been smokin cause it must be some good stuff if you are that high to think Arm is even close to even lowest end i3 intel. When a cpu is as SLOW as arm cpu's are compared to say intel's, its easy to make massive leaps.

Apple would be stupid to move to Arm for their machines cause yea would be much cheaper but they never had a problem charging a premium for their machines to start with but performance loss would piss off an already bit touchy base of people that are already not happy with way Apple has been last few years. Switch to AMD yes would be more likely but they would be working within same power envelope as they are now but with half the performance as that is about how far AMD is behind.

 

[Ponder]

Most people have missed that Intel has one their Atom chips in the area of same power usage of Arm cpu's and its FASTER then then cpu apple sticks in their 5s.

One of the problems for Intel, it lacks phone oriented software. SO they would have to destroy arms performance/cost and that will be difficult to do with a cisc oriented design at the moment. Each day more and more software is moved towards arm designs, but very little phone like apps are being ported to x86. The good news is it should not be too difficult to port apps, but the hard part is getting enough apps to support your design for the segement you are aiming for. Conversely arm in a desktop is slowly gaining as people want to do more and more on their tablets. I would expect Apple would transition slowly. Start maybe with an improved APPLE TV based on an arm design or a Smart TV with an ARM chip in it.

Apple would be stupid to move to Arm for their machines cause yea would be much cheaper but they never had a problem charging a premium for their machines to start with but performance loss would piss off an already bit touchy base of people that are already not happy with way Apple has been last few years. Switch to AMD yes would be more likely but they would be working within same power envelope as they are now but with half the performance as that is about how far AMD is behind.

They would not switch on day one to all arm designs, they would start with lowend designs. Test the water and focus where arm does well with smaller memory efficient apps. Basically a tablet in a small roku/wdlive like case, netbook or built into tv/monitors etc. It would be affordable and good enough for many uses. The highend would be Intel for those who are content creating as some of the larger x86 apps are still useful. Apple would price is aggressively and their goal is to drive more revenue through itunes/app store/media stores etc.

 

[Ponder]

NOT going to happen... there is no benefit in moving to ARM for their PC's except saving a few dollars on hardware. Not only would they have to maintain two versions of OSX (x86 and ARM) but they'd have to deal with the backlash from customers who dual boot Windows and OSX and from developers as well. It would render all their previous software catalog null and void and current ARM chips wouldn't have the chops to emulate x86.

You truly see zero benefit of having an internet appliance like device able to run tablet designs on a 1080p class display+? They would likely not use OSX. I don't think the switch would happen overnight, but they would make PC's(X86) and PC like devices(Arm) and IDK let the consumer choose.

<200 dollars for a device which could run tablet apps would be an interesting device. Lock you into itunes, help generate more ad revenue etc. Might make a great htpc liek device. etc.

 

[mknlb50]

I can definitely see this happening in a few years considering how A7 performs close to a Core2Duo found in a MBA (2010).

ARM processors are catching up fast. Good for them.

 

[dr.stevil]

You truly see zero benefit of having an internet appliance like device able to run tablet designs on a 1080p class display+? They would likely not use OSX. I don't think the switch would happen overnight, but they would make PC's(X86) and PC like devices(Arm) and IDK let the consumer choose.

<200 dollars for a device which could run tablet apps would be an interesting device. Lock you into itunes, help generate more ad revenue etc. Might make a great htpc liek device. etc.

Not really. iOS (and likewise, the iPad and iPhone) already filled that void. Trying to go back and make an iOS based laptop just seems like a giant step backwards to me... especially when iDevices aren't supposed to be a replacement to a PC... but instead a companion device. It could happen... but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. AMD seems a lot more likely than ARM.

Hell... I recall several times Apples execs making fun of netbooks and the like for being worthless junk (and rightfully so). The price is nice but really serves no real purpose. Gaming is out of the question and it's form factor makes working on it painful at best. You're better off with a tablet than a netbook for those types of tasks.

As for the price point, also never going to happen. The iPod retails for $229.00-$500.00... the iPad sells for $350.00-$700.00 and the Macbook Air $900+

I might be wrong, but I see no logical advantage in Apple selling such a device

 

[Terpfen]

phone OSX[/quote[

Huh?

 

[Ponder]

As for the price point, also never going to happen. The iPod retails for $229.00-$500.00... the iPad sells for $350.00-$700.00 and the Macbook Air $900+

I might be wrong, but I see no logical advantage in Apple selling such a device

Well those normally have highend screens, ultra small formfactor, batteries, cameras etc. Imagine an iphone, without a display, cell service, battery connected to a TV? The build cost of an iphone is normally ~200-300. So like amazon with backend profits they could sell at close to cost. Then sell you accessories like a webcamera, keyboards, mice, cables to plug into it etc.You could also bundle them into TVs. Apple smart TV basically an old iphone mainboard inserted into a tv. The graphic units can run 1080p, handle video etc. They can even use one generation old chips assuming touch sales don't use them all.

I can surely see a market for that...start there and as it build because developers like food and making money eventually you will have more and more ios apps. Eventually it will become better and better suited as a casual desktop replacement. This is where webos should have gone imho, I was sad to see it go.

 

[dr.stevil]

Well those normally have highend screens, ultra small formfactor, batteries, cameras etc. Imagine an iphone, without a display, cell service, battery connected to a TV? The build cost of an iphone is normally ~200-300. So like amazon with backend profits they could sell at close to cost. Then sell you accessories like a webcamera, keyboards, mice, cables to plug into it etc.You could also bundle them into TVs. Apple smart TV basically an old iphone mainboard inserted into a tv. The graphic units can run 1080p, handle video etc. They can even use one generation old chips assuming touch sales don't use them all.

I can surely see a market for that...start there and as it build because developers like food and making money eventually you will have more and more ios apps. Eventually it will become better and better suited as a casual desktop replacement. This is where webos should have gone imho, I was sad to see it go.

You just described the AppleTV

 

[Ponder]

You just described the AppleTV

Apple TV (3rd gen) revision 2 is a underpowered and limited in apps, but they were aiming for 99 dollars. Lets allow more apps from Iphone/ipad to run on the device and raise the price to 200-300 by improving the processor from an A5 single core to one generation behind the iphone, or maybe offer a range and let consumers decide. Heck if they allowed more code to them you could use them as micro servers as well. Run a family server for various tasks and communication. Anyways that is what consumers would like imho.

Sell development tools and PCs to content creators.

SO the point is not to switch on day one from X86 to Arm, but to slowly move arm up. The next step would be a Apple TV+ or an Apple Personal Information Device running arm and ipad apps. Homes might have one or two PCs still, but would have smart devices in multiple locations.

You said you saw zero logic in it, but Apple is already doing so. Just a bit slower then I would like.

 

[rudy]

I think people over estimate the need for power, this thread points that out where andy5k focuses solely on the user experience and makes completely invalid comparisons from a power stand point. Atom is like running full windows on an ARM chip, of course it is not as fluid. The crashes etc... likely had nothing to do with atom but more some sort of hardware problem in your netbook or whatever.

But it doesn't matter, it will be easy for apple and arm to scale up and customers wont notice. There are not enough of them out there that actually check performance. The whole trick of the last 5-10 years has been less is more and it has worked on most consumers. They sold them less functional software for more money. Sold them less power while hardly reducing the price. Consumers ate it up, I don't see any reason that will change.

 

[wonderfield]

It's worth mentioning that every version of OS X during the PPC years was also compiled for x86. It would not surprise me at all if the last few versions of OS X had been compiled for both x86 and ARM.

Apple does not fuck around. If the time seems right, Apple will be in a position to release an ARM-powered Mac without much difficulty. The only question is whether the time is ever going to be right.