Apology to calling the Comcast bandwidth violators, pirates

Gambit said:
Yes, but they're not telling users "here's an inch, we're not going to be jerks so it's not a hard and fast inch, but be responsible" but instead it's worded "you can take an undetermined amount... too much and we may cancel your account"
....
I'm not asking for a TOS unique to each person, just none of this really vague "at our sole discretion" with no other limits posted. As previously stated, this could be 100GB one month and 500GB the next. It's not my fault they *ADVERTISE* as unlimited, and say something completely different. Stay off their radar? I would if I knew what it took to *GET ON IT*. Obviously downloading too much gets you on... but how much? 100GB? 500GB? 250GB in one day, but not over a month? Who knows.
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I hear you - I don't agree with secretive limits. However, they have not billed the services as explicitly unlimited for a very long time. They bill it as fast(er) than dialup/dsl. The only time in recent memory that I can recall a service provider using unlimited and not meaning it was when the "unlimited" wireless data plans came out and they clobbered people for 1-5gb/mo. That raised a certain amount of shit and they were forced to change marketing. Residential ISPs haven't billed the service as unlimited. Perhaps its unfairly implied by not mentioning limits in adverts, but its explicitly mentioned in the TOS.
 
Erm yah, it's always the few inconsiderate people that're harming the innocent masses. Gamers downloading multiple demos, or buying Steam games, or using MSDN subscriptions to download Microsoft ISOs, or pirates downloading from P2P. It's always others at fault.

Since there're advocates of bandwidth limits, I'm interested to know how you make use of your broadband connection in a considerate way, and not adversely affect other subscribers in the neighbourhood?
 
urbanriot said:
This wouldn't be a problem if people paid for the service they received. Right now, at least in my area, minimal users are paying for more than they receive, while excessive users may be downloading more than they're paying for.

If you use more, you pay more. If you use less, you pay less.
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how do you know this? The ratio of minimal users to bandwidth abusers.
 
Techno Pride said:
Since there're advocates of bandwidth limits, I'm interested to know how you make use of your broadband connection in a considerate way, and not adversely affect other subscribers in the neighbourhood?
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Simple...I don't run P2P stuff.

Do I still download lots? Yeah..I guess..sometimes game patches, sometimes various linux distros and *nix router distros...my MSDN comes via CD bundle, as does TechNet.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Simple...I don't run P2P stuff.

Do I still download lots? Yeah..I guess..sometimes game patches, sometimes various linux distros and *nix router distros...my MSDN comes via CD bundle, as does TechNet.
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I don't get it. How is that using lesser bandwidth than the "typical" P2P'er, if there's even such a classification?
 
Techno Pride said:
I don't get it. How is that using lesser bandwidth than the "typical" P2P'er, if there's even such a classification?
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You haven't been reading the thread closely...or maybe just haven't grasped what was explained up above as far as the differences between typical traffic..and what P2P programs do to networks..esp routers.

It's also..just a game patch occasionally..like a couple of times a year, and perhaps a linux distro every couple of months to try out...not sucking down and equally uploading kajillions of songs/movies/warez.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
You haven't been reading the thread closely...or maybe just haven't grasped what was explained up above as far as the differences between typical traffic..and what P2P programs do to networks..esp routers.

It's also..just a game patch occasionally..like a couple of times a year, and perhaps a linux distro every couple of months to try out...not sucking down and equally uploading kajillions of songs/movies/warez.
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Yes, I know that P2P also drain ISP routers' CPU/RAM with multiple connections, which a simple HTTP/FTP linux distro download does not. My point is, there're ways of choking other people's bandwidth apart from P2P.

You may be a "lesser" user than those P2P people, but even for non-P2P users, there're also people with varying bandwidth usage. You download big files once every few months. Great for you. The people higher on the bandwidth chart than you should change their behavior. Then how about those below you? Their plight?

It's just like how hybrid owners diss SUV owners, who in turn say their own SUVs are less harmful than trailer trucks or oceanic oil spills.
 
Techno Pride said:
You may be a "lesser" user than those P2P people, but even for non-P2P users, there're also people with varying bandwidth usage. You download big files once every few months. Great for you. The people higher on the bandwidth chart than you should change their behavior. Then how about those below you? Their plight?
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They have no plight by me. I don't impact them.

But AGAIN...if you have been reading this thread...you'd see that I agree with "Charge per use". I don't mind shelling out more money...when I use more bandwidth. Again..like my illustrations a few posts back....it's a consumable....just like gas, just like oil, just like beer, just like food, and quite darned close to the way electricity works.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
They have no plight by me. I don't impact them.

But AGAIN...if you have been reading this thread...you'd see that I agree with "Charge per use". I don't mind shelling out more money...when I use more bandwidth. Again..like my illustrations a few posts back....it's a consumable....just like gas, just like oil, just like beer, just like food, and quite darned close to the way electricity works.
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I have been reading this thread. It's about people cursing those higher than themselves on the bandwidth chart. Hybrid owners cursing those above them on the environmental harm chart, SUV owners saying "I'm cool" coz there're worse offenders. The oil spillers.

Anyone who's pushing data through a limited pipe is taking something away from the guy next to him. The only way for anyone to have no impact is to be connected to an undersubscribed node or your ISP has a ridiculously fast backbone.

As for the pay-as-you-use idea, we just need some ISPs to start the ball rolling.
 
Bomber18 said:
The internet is growing and doesn't show any signs of slowing down. I am worried that instead of upgrading their infrastructures these ISPs are trying to discourage usage and fight competition that would bring in more bandwidth.
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Infrastructure upgrades take months (sometime years) of planning and millions of dollars. I doubt many of these ISPs being talked about are just sitting there saying "We're never going to upgrade our pipes, the internet is just a fad". It takes a huge investment to upgrade, which must be justified. 5% of customers using 100x more bandwidth than the rest is not justification, so they deal with the 5% accordingly to maintain service to everyone else. Now when that 5% grows to 25% for example, it's probably time to develop an upgrade path.

There will always be a few that consume more than the norm, that's just statistics. That doesn't mean that the provider should go out of their way to provide them 'extra' service when 95% of their customers are operating within their means.
 
Techno Pride said:
Anyone who's pushing data through a limited pipe is taking something away from the guy next to him. The only way for anyone to have no impact is to be connected to an undersubscribed node or your ISP has a ridiculously fast backbone.

As for the pay-as-you-use idea, we just need some ISPs to start the ball rolling.
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Downstream is not nearly as limited as upstream. IIRC, downstream bandwidth per node is 38Mbit, while upstream is only 9Mbit. Stonecat pulling down a game patch or youtube video now and then is unlikely to impact his neighbor because the likelihood that enough of his neighbors are pulling down so much content simultaneously where his additional demand will saturate the pipe is quite low with typical browsing/gaminig usage patterns. P2P attempts to constantly saturate downstream (think of how many torrents you can have going/in the queue - days worth), so with a few P2P users using their max bandwidth, you've suddenly thrown off the whole usage model - it's not provisioned for everyone to use it to capacity indefinitely. Worse yet, P2P typically maxes out the upstream bandwidth, which is a far more limited resource - therefore it takes fewer P2P users to do so. Once that's saturated everyone will be affected, downloads included (if you can't send ACKs out to servers you're never going to get any more data from them).

Don't forget, comcast's bittorrent interference wasn't just about bandwidth - P2P users are also expensive. They send out lots of traffic (far more than the typical user) to destinations all over the web, many of which are outside the ISPs regional/national network. This results in higher bandwidth charges/peering fees for them.
 
If you pay for a service that is ostensibly advertised as unlimited, the ISP damn well better deliver it. You can hardly criticize the consumer for trying to take advantage of a service they payed for. If the service isn't profitable for the ISP, then they shouldn't have sold it.

Many (but not all) ISPs have massively oversold their bandwidth, and need to correct their business model appropriately. This probably means charging per byte (a good thing IMO), but unfortunately for them it means losing a lot of revenue on customers who barely use their internet.
 
jimmyb said:
If you pay for a service that is ostensibly advertised as unlimited, the ISP damn well better deliver it. You can hardly criticize the consumer for trying to take advantage of a service they payed for. If the service isn't profitable for the ISP, then they shouldn't have sold it.
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Post a link to this ad where they say "Unlimited"

and that service is ..a..."paid for".
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=unlimited+internet
I'll also add that the contract entered into for my current internet service was unlimited. I'm not sure if they still advertise/offer it this way, but it's certainly the way it was when I entered into the contract.

I don't understand the second part of your post. You'll have to clarify.
 
I have 768/128, might be getting 10/1 for a whopping $15 more @ $45/mo.
I'm easy on Road Runner mostly because if I want to download or torrent then I can't really use my internet for anything else.
 
jimmyb said:
http://www.google.com/search?q=unlimited+internet
I'll also add that the contract entered into for my current internet service was unlimited. I'm not sure if they still advertise/offer it this way, but it's certainly the way it was when I entered into the contract.
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I used up enough of my time to go back on the Google link several pages..and still didn't see Comcast stating that in an advertisement. And to be accurate...most of those links still do not advertise unlimited broadband. If you take the time to click most of those links from your Google search...you'll see..first, 1/2 of the links aren't actually advertisements by an ISP. Secondly...the few ISP advertisements you do see..the "unlimited" is for DIAL UP. The links I took the time to look at did not combine "unlimited" with "broadband".

So my original quest of finding a Comcast advertisement that states their cable internet is unlimited remains unanswered.
 
I have road runner, and one time a long time ago I got a letter for using to much. so i called them and asked what Do I need to do in order not level capped, they told me I had the best service and I was not able to do anything more, so I ask if I have the best service why am I getting a level cap, I demanded better service. so the CSR was like well you have the best. I then told them to stop sending me letters about my service cap as i was paying for the service and did not offer anything higher. so anyways I talked to so people but nothing really came of it, but I never got any more letters.
 
Over here in rip-off britain where im paying richard branson 55 pound a month (110 USD or someting) for giving me a 20 meg connection which if i download more than 3gig in a day will get capped at 5 meg for 6 hours and now we got this phorm rubbish with virgin media where they will be giving out my internet usage details to another company!

Only problem here is that Virgin Media is the ONLY cable ISP in the UK, and i cannot bear to go back to BT either. I wish we had some fiber to the home connections here, or at least a decent cable provider!

It seems that ISP's accross the world only want to rip us off, cap us, cut us off and make up rubbish excuses! And we all blame the failin economies of USA nd UK on just the housing market! We need to sort out every mega-profit making company out too, we cannot let this c*ap go on further.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
It's not so much the bandwidth itself..is the routers along the nodes of cable ISPs that get hit the hardest. Think about common P2P complaints with home grade routers you see in the forums...now apply that on a grand scale....on an ISP scale..think of what a few hundred P2P users can do to ISP routers.
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wouldn't this be more of an issue with torrents than newsgroups?
 
To all the people saying:

I'm paying for x amount of bandwidth so they better give it to me
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Needs to read their contract. You have a residential connection and basically, you aren't entitled to shit. If your connection goes down, the ISP can take their merry time getting it back up. If you clog the pipes, they can throttle or cut you off at will. Don't believe me? Take an ISP to small claims court over something like this and you will lose.

If you really want your x amount of bandwidth all the time, you'll have to pony up the bucks for a business level connection that guarantees a certain level of bandwidth and up time.
 
necrothread.
the original post was invalid anyway, he should simply have copied his steam folder from computer to computer instead of redownloading everything.
 
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