Apartment Rant

[Wheresatom]

So, I came to a rough realization last night. I have been living in this same apartment for the better part of 10 months. Its a nice apartment, good neighborhood, rent is high enough to keep my neighbors nice. Last night though, I realized my breaker box is mostly fake. I was about to watch a movie and all of the lights went off and everything went quiet in my apartment. This is the second time in 2 weeks. I went to the breaker box, and found it to be the same breaker as last time. I was suspicious last time because I felt it was odd all of the lights in the apartment went out because of one little breaker.

Well, the second time the breaker tripped last night I got to investigating. The result? Well, one 15 amp breaker controls all of the outlets in my apartment. I did not test to see if at least my refrigerator was on a different outlet, but assuming it isn't, thats still pretty bad. I had to try to explain to my roommate that she can't microwave her dinner while she ironed. That was what was causing the lights to go out. I know, and many of you know that an iron and a microwave are both pretty big energy users, but my roommate is an English major....enough said

So, in conclusion, I need to think long and hard about renewing my lease at this apartment. I currently have a 20-25" tv, ( I dunno, it was free) but would like to upgrade to a 37" LCD sometime in the next 6 months or so. I am afraid now that with my computer folding in the other room, PS3 folding, and my (future) 37" tv on watching a movie, that if i tried to make popcorn at the same time for said movie, I would have to trip the breaker again. Also, the added electricity of putting a quad core in my computer instead of a dual core might be enough to cause more problems. Really, I have maxed out the electrical system and have no recourse. They are not going to re-wire it for me I am sure.

Oh well, rant over. I just wanted to get that out. Damn.

 

[Kendrak]

Wow.... umm fire hazzard?!

That's crazy. Did they have an inspection before they closed up the walls?!

 

[Wheresatom]

I really wonder. I guess the electrical code has upgraded itself in the last few years or something. I think they are required to give a dedicated outlet to the microwave if it is a permanently installed one like mine above the stove. BTW, that's a 1.2kw microwave. It's beefy.

 

[BassTek]

I really wonder. I guess the electrical code has upgraded itself in the last few years or something. I think they are required to give a dedicated outlet to the microwave if it is a permanently installed one like mine above the stove. BTW, that's a 1.2kw microwave. It's beefy.

Hmm, if code up here is similar then my microwave is breaking code as well. I can't get angry at my electrician though since I'm the one that installed it.

 

[capreppy]

Apartments/Condos can be a pain (ask Sunin).

Even in my home, the three bedrooms (two of them double as an office) are all tied to the same breaker. Sucks big time. As soon as some funds become available, I'm having a buddy of mine (electrician) come in and wire each of the offices on their own breaker. In my office, he'll actually be running 3 separate breakers (one for my desktop and everything on my desk, one for the farm that I hopefully will be able to build out, and one for me TV setup in my office). Right now, we occassionally get a breaker going if we're both working out of our home offices and we've got everything fired up

 

[Arcygenical]

I dealt with the same issue, and it even damaged my hardware when a circuit blew.

I switched ALL my lights to CFLs, I used my microwave at 50% power, or the stove wherever possible... I underclocked my main computer, I used cold outside air and a thermal-relay to control temperature (rather than the window AC) and got rid of the TV in favor of another 20" display and a TV tuner

 

[Imitation]

New house FTW!!!

Not to brag, but my house is very well wired, each room is on its own 15A breaker and the living room has half on one and half on another. It pays to supervise and plan ahead

Apartments suck for power, like some have said you can minimize damage by going with florescent light bulbs, and not microwaving while ironing and having the roomie blowdry her hair all at the same time. I was in an apt after college that was similar, slightly better than yours, we had 2 15A breakers instead of 1, but it was also a 3 bedroom. 1 for upstairs, one for downstairs! We tried to have a LAN party once, that didn't last long.

Also, as long as you stay fairly small on an LCD tv, its going to draw less power than a 25" CRT tv most likely.

Lastly, you have a female roomie? That could be interesting, i wouldn't have minded having one back in school

 

[Ockie]

Why don't you upgrade the breakers? I believe under NEC code you can use a 20 amp breaker if you are feeding more than two/three 15 amp recepticles.

You could also see if you can upgrade some other breakers or do a direct drop box off the main breaker panel.

A lot of these apartments are old and were not designed for the amount of electricity that we are consuming as of todays age. I looked recently at a massive house (massive) but it is an old house, the entire place had a 50 amp breaker... yeah, 50 amp for the main home breaker. A lot of apartments are designed just like this, no one had a clue that we would be able to afford or even fit multiple computers into a home + plasma tv's + microwaves, etc.

 

[Ockie]

I really wonder. I guess the electrical code has upgraded itself in the last few years or something. I think they are required to give a dedicated outlet to the microwave if it is a permanently installed one like mine above the stove. BTW, that's a 1.2kw microwave. It's beefy.

IIRC NEC code requires a 20 amp breaker to be present, but not a 20 amp receptacle, this is how a lot of builders skimp on kitchen power. This is only for new installations. And the reason why you need 20amp breaker isn't because of the microwave alone, it's typically becasue it's an overstove unit which has a light and a venting mechanism consuming additional power.

 

[Wheresatom]

Well personally I can't/wont be upgrading anything in this apartment. It is just holding me over for another year or so until I can buy a house hopefully. I plan on discussing this with my landlord to see if there is anything they would like to do to accommodate me but I wont be holding my breath for it.

I have a female roommate who is engaged and then I also have a girlfriend, so there is no interaction on that level. It can get interesting at times though. My gf and my roommate were friends in college so its all good there for the most part.

I was hoping to get a 37" LCD some time in the next 3-6 months, is the consensus that my 25" CRT uses about the same power that the 37" might? I think I am just going to have to live with it for a while still.

I plan on talking to the landlord about some compensation for my rent price soon. They have a lot of empty units so I think I might be able to get them to hold firm on their price rather than increasing it by $40 like they have proposed. $40/month isn't a huge price, but it is enough to be annoying.

 

[WesM63]

That sucks man. I have to rewire the south side of my house due to something similar. The entire south side is on one 15amp breaker. Haven't tripped it yet, but anytime my well pump kicks on, my ups kicks on as well. (Causing a brown out)

 

[valve1138]

Why don't you upgrade the breakers? I believe under NEC code you can use a 20 amp breaker if you are feeding more than two/three 15 amp recepticles.

You could also see if you can upgrade some other breakers or do a direct drop box off the main breaker panel.
.

You are incorrect about your understanding of NEC code.

You can't just "upgrade" breakers. It depends on the wire gauge.

12ga = 20 amp breaker

14ga = 15 amp breaker

You can't put a 20 amp breaker on 14ga wire, it'll burn up.

 

[valve1138]

Well personally I can't/wont be upgrading anything in this apartment. It is just holding me over for another year or so until I can buy a house hopefully. I plan on discussing this with my landlord to see if there is anything they would like to do to accommodate me but I wont be holding my breath for it.

The breaker may have gone bad, it happens sometimes, and cause it to trip for no reason or be more prone to tripping when it shouldn't. Ask him to replace it.

 

[Kowan]

The breaker is tripping because of heat generated from the load. Installing a higher rated breaker on the current circuit would allow more heat before it also would trip. If the wiring isn't rated for 20amps, that could mean melted insulation in the wall somewhere. A home fire is a very real possibility.

 

[Xilikon]

It sucks to have such poor wiring planning in the apartment. My condo is better than this but still sucks since the whole living room and storage room share the same circuit and almost my whole farm is connected to just 1 circuit. I had to move 2 boxens to the bedroom circuit (1 breaker for 2 bedrooms).

I used to own a house and the circuits is well planned because I asked the electrician to wire by my specifications and I paid 500$ extra to make sure. For the condo, I bought it while it's being built but I was just 1 week too late to make changes in the electrical wiring because the whole ceiling is closed with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (the floor is in cement so no wiring below).

 

[Ockie]

You are incorrect about your understanding of NEC code.

You can't just "upgrade" breakers. It depends on the wire gauge.

12ga = 20 amp breaker

14ga = 15 amp breaker

You can't put a 20 amp breaker on 14ga wire, it'll burn up.

You might want to take a look at NEC Section 210.21(B)(3). Now yes, conductor size can become an issue depending on how the system is wired and you are also assuming they are using a 14ga wire, which I have never seen any commercial electricians use, most electricians do not even carry 14ga wire, but who knows, maybe the apartment complex was cheap.

 

[Python]

I am in a similar situation but not quite as bad. Each room in my apartment has a 15 amp breaker. The upstairs room with my farm in it trips maybe once a month.

Looking forward to moving into my first house when I graduate in May! Already talked to my brother, an electrician, about installing 3 20 amp circuits in the basement for my "office"

jlovins

 

[Ockie]

The breaker may have gone bad, it happens sometimes, and cause it to trip for no reason or be more prone to tripping when it shouldn't. Ask him to replace it.

A tripping circuit breaker is a good thing, it does not mean necessarily that it's bad and does not require replacement because it trips. Breakers which trips before it reached its load maximum is typically a result of a loose connection/contact that increases heat which would trip the breaker. If this circuit is indeed as described in which it connects all the receptacle outlets, then its more than possible that the circuit is tripping for reasonable circumstances. I would use a ammeter to read your load or just have the apartment management come to check it out, which is most likely the first thing they would do.

If it's truly bad, it's a simple fix.

 

[Kowan]

Nice brother. You are going to have beer and tamales ready for him?

 

[valve1138]

A tripping circuit breaker is a good thing, it does not mean necessarily that it's bad and does not require replacement because it trips. Breakers which trips before it reached its load maximum is typically a result of a loose connection/contact that increases heat which would trip the breaker. If this circuit is indeed as described in which it connects all the receptacle outlets, then its more than possible that the circuit is tripping for reasonable circumstances. I would use a ammeter to read your load or just have the apartment management come to check it out, which is most likely the first thing they would do.

If it's truly bad, it's a simple fix.

That last sentence is my exact point.

 

[flogge]

I am in a similar situation but not quite as bad. Each room in my apartment has a 15 amp breaker. The upstairs room with my farm in it trips maybe once a month.

Looking forward to moving into my first house when I graduate in May! Already talked to my brother, an electrician, about installing 3 20 amp circuits in the basement for my "office"

jlovins

If you are having circuits installed and wired from the breaker specifically to run computers, make them 220v circuits. You will have less line loss and it's easier on the PSUs. Just do something different with the 220 outlets like a color-coded wall plate so you don't plug something that can't take that voltage. It's also a good opportunity to install a circuit-wide UPS if you want to get Uber[H]ard.

 

[valve1138]

You might want to take a look at NEC Section 210.21(B)(3). Now yes, conductor size can become an issue depending on how the system is wired and you are also assuming they are using a 14ga wire, which I have never seen any commercial electricians use, most electricians do not even carry 14ga wire, but who knows, maybe the apartment complex was cheap.

Conductor size is always an issue. It tells you how big a breaker can be used on a given circuit.

I'm not assuming anything. You can't have 14ga wire fed by a 20 amp breaker, plain and simple. It's not up to code in any way shape or form.

And to say you can "upgrade" the breaker to a 20 amp just because there are two or three 15a outlets is misleading. The wire needs to be 12ga in order to be able to do that.

 

[Xilikon]

Conductor size is always an issue. It tells you how big a breaker can be used on a given circuit.

I'm not assuming anything. You can't have 14ga wire fed by a 20 amp breaker, plain and simple. It's not up to code in any way shape or form.

And to say you can "upgrade" the breaker to a 20 amp just because there are two or three 15a outlets is misleading. The wire needs to be 12ga in order to be able to do that.

Correct. You can use 12ga wire with a 15 amps breaker but not the other way. To have a 20 amp circuit, you need to make sure all wires and outlets is rated for 20a.

 

[valve1138]

Correct. You can use 12ga wire with a 15 amps breaker but not the other way. To have a 20 amp circuit, you need to make sure all wires and outlets is rated for 20a.

That last part isn't correct. On a 20 amp circuit, with a 20 amp breaker and 12 guage wire you can in fact have 15 amp outlets. Per the NEC, you can at the minimum have one duplex 15 amp outlet.

 

[Xilikon]

That last part isn't correct. On a 20 amp circuit, with a 20 amp breaker and 12 guage wire you can in fact have 15 amp outlets. Per the NEC, you can at the minimum have one duplex 15 amp outlet.

Oh, you are right... I was mixing that with the ability to use 20 amp plugs (the blades is not parallel but perpendicular).

 

[Python]

If you are having circuits installed and wired from the breaker specifically to run computers, make them 220v circuits. You will have less line loss and it's easier on the PSUs. Just do something different with the 220 outlets like a color-coded wall plate so you don't plug something that can't take that voltage. It's also a good opportunity to install a circuit-wide UPS if you want to get Uber[H]ard.

I had not even thought about going 220.

I was going to ask my brother about hospital grade outlets (The orange ones) I know that they are built to higher standards and have larger/more contact area for higher loads.

Doing that would be great because I would have the better outlet and it would be color coded for future reference.