Anything bad about the SN25P?

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Wuuzy

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I was thinking about building a SN25P barebones gaming PC would this setup be good?

Barebones kit
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16856101468 Shuttle SN25P

Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814161132 HIS Radeon X800XL

Processor
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103537 AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice

Memory
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820141182 PQI Turbo 2GB

HD
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822144160-Western Digital Raptor 74GB

DVD Drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827152039 NEC Dvd Burner

Are there any compatibility problems like stuff not fitting inside or are there any known problems that happen to all SN25Ps that I need to know?

Any help or comments would be appreciated :)
 
Is it true that the SN25P has troubles wit its power supply or something? I've heard that sometimes the hard drive or something isn't given enough power so it screws up. Also, would the SN25P last in the long run in value and upgradability for a while?

Thanks :)
 
How about price? ;) An Aspire X-Qpack & board is about $215 cheaper and gives you more options to upgrade. So it's a little wider...

In the long run socket M1 is going to replace all desktop boards, some time in the first half of 2006. It should still be a good performer though, just not upgradable.
 
what else can u upgrade other than the CPU, Video Card and RAM?? :confused:
I'm a newbie at this so I don't really know :p
 
if you would upgrade to that new socket you would need a new motherboard anyway. All you would have left over if you were to build a microATX board is the case and possibly PSU. Personally I think a Shuttle is the way to go if you go SFF. My latest A64 system was a midtower and I am actually trying to sell the parts to get back to a shuttle :)

Yes I considered the aspire case and a microatx board, however the sn25p motherboard seems to have more options for tweaking and overclocking, the onboard sound is nice, and the whole system is quite a bit smaller. I didn't realize how big that aspire qpack was until I saw one close up. Compared to a shuttle it is quite a bit bigger.
 
How about sound card? If you game, the onboard sound is going to use ~15%+ of your processing power. An Audigy2 should knock that down to under 3%.

TV Tuner card? Quieter VGA cooling like an ATi Silencer?

Better overclocking? Not even! You can't even change the cooling. Shuttle's definitely have a size advantage, although they lost a little with the SN25P - should have kept it the same. I think the X-Qpack is a little big, but for the price... ARIAs & Fragbox2 are more ideal, but they have their own problems.

Main thing is, you pay $380 upfront and it will probably depreciate another $200 by the time you sell it... if you sell it. With a mATX case, you would only lose about $30-40 upgrading the motherboard. That and negligble overclocking ability.

Let me put this another way... Aspire X-Qpack/Jetway A210GDMS & 7800GTX or SN25P & X800XL? ...or 3000+ ->3800+ ...or 4*season passes to Six Flags?
 
sleepeeg3 said:
How about sound card? If you game, the onboard sound is going to use ~15%+ of your processing power. An Audigy2 should knock that down to under 3%.

TV Tuner card? Quieter VGA cooling like an ATi Silencer?
Click to expand...

Both an ATI Silencer and a PCI Soundcard is an unlikely combination in any SFF. If anything that just adds to the weight and the heat

sleepeeg3 said:
Better overclocking? Not even! You can't even change the cooling.
Click to expand...

Yes, even. Find me a microATX board that has the bios options featured in the SN25P, the adjustable voltages, the memory dividers, the 300HTT on FSB. Yeah, you won't find one. That jetway board you listed certainly doesn't support all of those features. I haven't read into the thread, but I don't want to mess around with tweaked bioses on an unknown brand's motherboard to get a Few overclocking options.

sleepeeg3 said:
Main thing is, you pay $380 upfront and it will probably depreciate another $200 by the time you sell it... if you sell it.
Click to expand...

No, I sold my SN45G for $245.00 this spring, and I bought it for $280.00 2 Years ago. That is hardly a $200 depreciation.
 
Bought mine is sig last month. I LOVE it and would never go back to ATX. sound is also good sounds as good as my audigy 2 ZS so no worries their. Plus this thing is FAST. Built the thing in 20 mins and I have never had a single problem with it.
 
Yeah, those disadvantages sleepeeg3 just are not real.
The shuttle will overclock past 300htt with an in windows overclock application.
I have a zalmon 700 flower whatever cooler on my x800xl, totally silent fits with no mods.
I am guessing, but the envy24 is probably not usung 15+- % or even close when I am running a vennice 3200 at 2500htt. I doubt that I am loosing more than a couple frames at best when running at actual game resolution. That is a lot of processor power, it's not like this is a 486dx66 or something.
The only bad thing I can point out is the quality of the fans, I am not real pleased but I guess any fan can go bad. One of the 60mm at the back needs replaced, nbd.

I really like my shuttle, a lot. I do not regret for a minute spending extra for it. I have not found a decent usb tuner to replace my winfast pci card yet and I still would not go back to a mid or mini tower, probably never will now. It is just sweet.
 
so would it be possible to upgrade the motherboard in the future on this thing? :confused:
cuz it looks like the mother board was specially made for those fans..........
 
no idea on replacing the motherboard, but what it has now could easily last you till 2008. get an FX-57 when the price goes down, 2 gigs of ram and a 7800GTX and you'll be fine for a long time.
 
Wuuzy said:
Is it true that the SN25P has troubles wit its power supply or something? I've heard that sometimes the hard drive or something isn't given enough power so it screws up. Also, would the SN25P last in the long run in value and upgradability for a while?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I don't know where you heard about power problems, but it has to have been a very limited group, lol, probably just one person. I've got 3 hard drives in mine, 2 of which are 74 gig raptors, an fx-55 and an x800xl and a bunch of things attached via usb and I don't have any power issues.

Upgradability? Eh, should be fine, it is pci-e and it takes the dual core amd procs with the latest bios.
 
Is that with the stock PSU?? Also, does the system stay cool with the stock cooling system (the "ICE" or whatever) even when overclocking?

Thx
 
It will OC nice, the ICE system is very, very, OC friendly. Speedfan is your friend.

If im on desktop, and I play music, everything else idle, on my X2 4200+ I get 2-3% CPU utilization. Big deal ;p

Socket 939 will still be around for a good amount of time, heck dont they still make socket 754 semprons o_O?

SN25P is an amazing SFF... I wont be going back to a tower for a long time now ;p ... I have tried the microATX route with an ARIA, trying to use generic parts in such a tiny space really didnt work out that well... had serious heat issues and had to mod the case to get it decent.

The PSU is high quality and should take whatever you can throw at it, a few other [H] members have put insane setups in thier SN25Ps.
 
What are ur average idle temps and load temps oc'd and non oc'd?? with the ICE thingy
 
Wuuzy said:
Is that with the stock PSU?? Also, does the system stay cool with the stock cooling system (the "ICE" or whatever) even when overclocking?

Thx
Click to expand...

Stock PSU. You're wasting your time with a sn25p if you want to do things like upgrade fans, PSU, etc. Shuttle actually put some significant design effort into this box, and it shows. You're not going to make it significantly better by farting around with other powersupplies, cooling systems, etc.

The system stays cool, especially if you install the amd driver that throttles the cpu down when it isn't actually doing anything.

I don't bother overclocking, it serves no practical purpose for me. You can overclock in with these machines, going by what I've read. It certainly wouldn't by my choice of platform if overclocking in and of itself was the goal.
 
Wuuzy said:
What are ur average idle temps and load temps oc'd and non oc'd?? with the ICE thingy
Click to expand...

CPU

28c idle, maxed around 52c at full load(using synthetic benches to max it out)

CASE

Stays around 40-50c, regardless of activity, fans just speed up if they need to.

These are temps reported by nvidia ntune.
 
cpush said:
Both an ATI Silencer and a PCI Soundcard is an unlikely combination in any SFF. If anything that just adds to the weight and the heat
Click to expand...
Unlikely how? If you are talking about the Shuttle/Biostar sized SFFs then yes, it's not possible. You don't lose that feature with a mATX board. Adds only about a pound, quiets your case and removes more heat. It doesn't add to it!

cpush said:
Yes, even. Find me a microATX board that has the bios options featured in the SN25P, the adjustable voltages, the memory dividers, the 300HTT on FSB. Yeah, you won't find one. That jetway board you listed certainly doesn't support all of those features. I haven't read into the thread, but I don't want to mess around with tweaked bioses on an unknown brand's motherboard to get a Few overclocking options.
Click to expand...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153031
The only issue is the memory divider was not able to be set in the current version, but that is fixed with Jetway's beta bios. FSB up to a (purely theoretical) 500HTT. If you are too afeared to use Winflash, then you probably aren't overclocking anyway! :p

Anyway, heavy duty overclocking on the SN25P is not realistic anyway, because the ICE cooling and PSU are going to be your real limiting factors. Morry's review showed only a 400MHz overclock on a 3200+. I am sure the PSU is fine for stock and moderate overclocking, but you will have issues the higher you go. Especially if you are also overclocking your graphics card... and one without a Silencer to remove the heat. ;)

cpush said:
No, I sold my SN45G for $245.00 this spring, and I bought it for $280.00 2 Years ago. That is hardly a $200 depreciation.
Click to expand...
Hmm... I guessed at that, so let's be more fair.

Newegg's price for an SN41G2 back on July 17th, 2003: $320 shipped.

Average eBay price today for an SN41G2: ~$200 shipped

So a $120 depreciation, but still $215 more tied up indefinitely. It's more expensive is the point!

PoorBehavior said:
I am guessing, but the envy24 is probably not usung 15+- % or even close when I am running a venice 3200 at 2500htt.
Click to expand...
10%. My bad.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1660811,00.asp Article is a year old, but it uses the same chip as the SN25P (basically the same chip in every non-Creative card).

One other thing that I considered when building a Shuttle-sized SFFs was the noise. With most mATX systems, you have the ability to make them near silent. Most come with a 120mm fan on the PSU. Throw in a Zalman 7000 and a Zalman VF700 or AC Silencer and you have a virtually silent rig! Like it or not you will always have that high-pitched 40mm fan. It's probably a step up compared to the average person's tower, but it's still noisy. ...and the SN25P adds 2 more of them! Silence is considered to be <20dB. Shuttle advertises the SilenX @ 31dB.
 
Buy the SN25P. you wont be disappointed and you wont miss the tower or even think about another mATX again.

The I.C.E. system has no problem keeping my 3800 Venice, which is overclocked to 3Ghz at a nice 30 degrees at idle and in the high 50s, low 60s during very heavy load.

The power supply also has no problem handling my CPU, 2 hard drives, 2 gigs of Ram, and the X850XT-PE, that is also overclocked.

So, the onboard sound takes up some CPU power, most people have so much useless crap running in the background anyway that it doesnt matter, or they could care less. Besides, it sounds phenomenal for onboard sound.

No, the SN25P isn't dead silent, it makes a little noise, and I mean a little. so little noise, that taking a deep breathe will cover up the noise. the fans are all easily controlled using speedfan and dont need to be set over 10% to do a perfectly fine job cooling the case.

Ya, you may lose some money when you try and resell the SN25P 3 years from now, but you find me pretty much any consumer product that wont drop in price, and i'll invest in 100 of em.

Buy it, you wont regret it.

One thing I would recommend though is just going with a single larger hard drive, I had 2 Raptor in Raid 0 and got sick of the noise and the heat and switched to a single 300gig Seagate and the only place I notice a differance is booting up. The raptor were maybe 2 seconds faster at boot up, maybe.
 
You can build and configure a very, very, very quiet SN25p.

Rule #1 - Do not put two 74 gig raptors in the top of it. Lol. These are my number one heat/noise source at the moment.

Rule #2 - It will only be as quiet as the cooling system on your video card.

Rule #3 - Use something like speedfan to give you finer granularity in your fan speed settings than can be had from the BIOS.

Rule #4 - As far as the fan noise goes, the only noticeably audible fans are those 2 little buggers in the back, which can be set at 10% or even less in most configs.

Even with the raptors and an fx-55, the only time the system gets serious fan noise is in something like battlefield 2. I'm either wearing a headset---can't hear anything else---or using a 7.1 speaker setup fairly loud---still can't hear anything else, so I don't find that an issue.

It is the best stock enclosure I've ever owned, frankly, and I've gone through quite a few.
 
I still really dont know what some good substitutes for raptors in terms of performance. :p
I have no idea on what HD I should get definetely NOT raptors
 
MW you seriously sounds like a rep from Shuttle. I find what you say very hard to believe... Current Shuttle systems are not going to be silent. People can claim it indefinitely, but that does not make it true (unless you're deaf! :D ). Speedfan or not, you are still going to have that PSU fan whizzing away. Go check silentpcreview forums for some opinions.

Anyway, why would you not want a Raptor, Wuuzy? The Maxtor Maxline III is a good alternative, although it will not perform quite as well in games: http://www.storagereview.com/php/be...&numDrives=1&devID_0=259&devID_1=269&devCnt=2
 
sleepeeg3 said:
MW you seriously sounds like a rep from Shuttle. I find what you say very hard to believe... Current Shuttle systems are not going to be silent. People can claim it indefinitely, but that does not make it true (unless you're deaf! :D ). Speedfan or not, you are still going to have that PSU fan whizzing away. Go check silentpcreview forums for some opinions.
Click to expand...

My SN85G4's ICE fan and PSU fan were surprisingly quiet under no load, and this is with a passive video card and an elastically suspended 2.5" Samsung spinpoint (I am a reader of silentpcreview ;)). Obviously they were audible when the ambient noise level was very low, but I was surprised that they were so quiet stock. Made me think twice about changing the ice fan to a 92mm Nexus and the PSU fan to an Adda 60mm fan since the system was already relatively quiet to begin with :). I know I should make a comparison to something rather than just say 'they're quiet', but I didn't really make any specific comparisons.. and remember, this was under no load. The story is likely very different when gaming :p.
 
Wuuzy said:
I still really dont know what some good substitutes for raptors in terms of performance. :p
I have no idea on what HD I should get definetely NOT raptors
Click to expand...

There is no substitute, they're fairly unique in that segment. You don't exactly have a slot laying around in an sn25p to add a uscsi controller either.

As was mentioned, the maxtor maxline is supposed to be very good.
 
My SN25P is VERY quiet compared to my desktops. I will not go back to ATX ever again I LOVE the SN25P. As far as Hard drives I use 1 74 gig raptor and I have external hard drives for everything else.
 
eastvillager said:
There is no substitute, they're fairly unique in that segment. You don't exactly have a slot laying around in an sn25p to add a uscsi controller either.

As was mentioned, the maxtor maxline is supposed to be very good.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree that the Maxtor MaxLine III's are very very quiet. Two of mine are mounted at the top and they don't make any noise whatsoever, though they do tend to run a bit on the warm side but the case itself acts like a nice heatsink ;) At least compared to the Raptor, you cannot hear them.

The Raptor is "ok" but does indeed get pretty noisy when there is heavy reading or writing. However, I feel that the performance that the Raptor offers outweighs the noise plus the noise isn't as loud as some makes it out to be. Actually, it's one of the quietest drive on the market if you can actually call hard drives to be quiet in the first place ;) Check here.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2396&p=16

And when there's not much activity, the cpu fan is definately louder than the Raptor's noise (when set on Mid-Noise within BIOS).

Also regarding the temperature of the Raptor's, it runs the coolest by far in my SN25P. It runs at about 44 degrees on load while my MaxLine's pushes 49-50 on Idle, though I don't suspect them to go much above that.

Ald
 
I've been running a SN25P for about 3 months now. It's been a great system. I cannot get over how quiet it is. I'm running a 3200+ Venice at 2.5ghz (250x10), memory at DDR500 with no issues. I installed two 250gb Seagate NCQ drives, DVR-109 DVD-RW, 1gb of TCCD and a X850 XT PE. Gaming is great too. This thread has reminded me that I need to sell my other system because I don't use it anymore! :)
 
sleepeeg3 said:
MW you seriously sounds like a rep from Shuttle. I find what you say very hard to believe... Current Shuttle systems are not going to be silent. People can claim it indefinitely, but that does not make it true (unless you're deaf! :D ). Speedfan or not, you are still going to have that PSU fan whizzing away. Go check silentpcreview forums for some opinions.
Click to expand...

I never said it was silent, i said it made a little noise, but none of that noise comes from the PSU fans, I have never heard the PSU fans even under heavy gaming. The only fan I ever really hear is from my arctic cooler that I set to 100% when I start playing games, and even that at 100% isnt even that noticable.

Also, none of the fans produce a buzzing sound either, if anything its a very low hum which easily falls into the backround after a few minutes of hearing it.

I dont need to check any site for any reviews or opinions, I have an SN25P sitting two feet away from me, and I cant hear it unless everything in my room is off and i'm sitting alone in the dark, which I dont do to often. Once I turn the fan in my room on or the air conditioner, it instantly drowns out whatever little noise was coming from it.
 
I can also atest to how quiet the SN25P is - it is definitely quieter than my water cooled system. It is so quiet that when I installed an X850XT with the stock cooler - I found it to be the noisiest component in my system (at IDLE speed) and put an Arctic Silnecer on it!

I use Speedfan to control all the fans in the SN25P - this is a HUGE plus as I can't do this with any of my other Shuttle's.

The only problem I have with the SN25P is that the Envy24 onboard sound card does not output 5.1 in BF2. Since it has a PCI-E 1x - I can't install an Audigy card! I tried an External SBLive 24 and it only outputs in two channel mode in BF2.
 
dworley said:
I can also atest to how quiet the SN25P is - it is definitely quieter than my water cooled system. It is so quiet that when I installed an X850XT with the stock cooler - I found it to be the noisiest component in my system (at IDLE speed) and put an Arctic Silnecer on it!

I use Speedfan to control all the fans in the SN25P - this is a HUGE plus as I can't do this with any of my other Shuttle's.

The only problem I have with the SN25P is that the Envy24 onboard sound card does not output 5.1 in BF2. Since it has a PCI-E 1x - I can't install an Audigy card! I tried an External SBLive 24 and it only outputs in two channel mode in BF2.
Click to expand...
Try the External Audigy 2 NX :)
 
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