Anyone using an X-Fi with XP64?

R

Rubycon

Weaksauce
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May 1, 2006
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Do you have crackling that comes and goes? It's not an incompatibility issue between the nForce4 chipset (A8N32SLI) either as 32 bit Windows works PERFECT. I really want to keep 64bit Win as it can use all 4GB of RAM. XP32 sees 2.98GB and can only use 2GB per process as most know.

There has got to be a solution. Even though Win32 works without a hitch I've tried the usual things like disabling other hardware, PCI latency, etc. Sometimes it seems like the problem is solved, there will be no crackling at all then BAM! Fire up a game and it's back like mad. Just crackling like lightning crashes on an AM radio in the summer. No squeals or anything like that. It's annoying as crap though.

EDIT: This is an X-Fi Elite Pro purchased last September. Does NOT have a heatsink on the processor.
 
No crackling here. Sounds good but not as many features with XP64 vs XP32. The biggest to me is No DVD Audio playback.

The XP32 memory issue is common but it is a bios issue, not OS, although you do have to have Physical Address Extension enabled (thats using the /pmtimer or /pae switch in the boot.ini OS choice entries.)
 
When memory hole is enabled, the system and OS can see all 4GB. Windows XP32 can see 4GB too but you CANNOT use SP2. SP2 breaks being able to use all 4GB. Typical MS stuff. :rolleyes:

Problem is some stuff REQUIRES it now.

So the solution is to run 64bit win. The spurious noises only occur when using 64. I have not tried listening to the analog output via headphones or line out. The optical output is running to a Wadia DAC. Sound is very nice in Win32.

My other option is the Prosonus Firebox (1394 recording interface) which works great - only in 32 bit Windows. :rolleyes:

Ah the joys (or not) of running new stuff. We pay to be beta testers! That's the stickler.
 
Rubycon said:
When memory hole is enabled, the system and OS can see all 4GB. Windows XP32 can see 4GB too but you CANNOT use SP2. SP2 breaks being able to use all 4GB. Typical MS stuff. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


So your saying simply installing SP2 breaks the 4GB usage? I never knew that but now I am going to research it.

Thanks for the info, sorry it doesn't help your problem, but if I find something I'll let you know.

But...I still don't have any issues with spurious noises or any abnormal noise in Win64 on my X-Fi. You may have some other issue such as heat in the PC case or a bad X-Fi APU. Especially if you have one of the late first or early second gen cards that did not have a heatsink on the APU.
 
I just found some info: XP SP2 security fixes include eliminating memory/buffer overflow vulnerabilities by mapping data protection features to only allow 3GB memory.

There is probably a way to get around it. by unfixing this fix but details arent being made readily available.

Again, thanks for the tip, one of my other friends was complaining about it a while back and I never put two and two together on it.
 
Searching technet showed some interesting stuff here:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2mempr.mspx

Try setting DEP modes either in control panel (below) or by adding this option to the bioot.ini line: /noexecute=OptOut
(make sure you undo the memory hole setting in bios as well)

Similarly, if the system-wide DEP policy is set to Opt-Out, applications which have been exempted from DEP protection will be exempted from both hardware and software-enforced DEP.

The four system-wide DEP configurations are controlled through boot.ini switches. The Boot.ini settings are as follows:

/noexecute=policy_level

where policy_level is defined as AlwaysOn, AlwaysOff, OptIn, or OptOut.

Any existing /noexecute setting in the Boot.ini file is not changed when Windows XP SP2 is installed or if a Windows operating system image is moved across computers with and without hardware-enforced DEP support.

During installation of Windows XP SP2, the OptIn policy level is enabled by default unless a different policy level is specified in an unattended installation. If the /noexecute=policy_level setting is not present in the boot entry for a version of Windows which supports DEP, the behavior is the same as if the /noexecute=OptIn option was included.

End users who are logged on as administrators can manually configure DEP between the OptIn and OptOut policies using the Data Execution Prevention tab inside the System Properties dialog box. The following procedure describes how to manually configure DEP on the computer:

1.
Click Start, click Control Panel, and then double-click System.

2.
Click the Advanced tab. Then, under Performance, click Settings.

3.
Click the Data Execution Prevention tab.

4.
Click Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only to select the OptIn policy.

5.
Click Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select to select the OptOut policy.

6.
If you selected the OptOut policy, click Add and add the applications that you do not want to use DEP with.


IT professionals can control system-wide DEP configuration with a variety of methods. The Boot.ini file can be modified directly with scripting mechanisms or with the Bootcfg.exe tool which is included as part of Windows XP SP2.

For unattended installations of Windows XP SP2, you can use the Unattend.txt file to pre-populate a specific DEP configuration. You can use the OSLoadOptionsVar entry in the [Data] section of the Unattend.txt file to specify a system-wide DEP configuration.

Per-application DEP Configuration

For the purposes of application compatibility when DEP is set to the OptOut policy level, it is possible to selectively disable DEP for individual 32-bit applications.

For end users, the Data Execution Prevention tab in System Properties can be used to selectively disable DEP for an application.

For IT professionals, a new application compatibility fix named DisableNX is included with Windows XP Service Pack 2. The DisableNX compatibility fix disables data execution prevention for the program it is applied to.

The DisableNX compatibility fix can be applied to an application by using the Application Compatibility Toolkit. For more information about Windows application compatibility, see “Windows Application Compatibility” on the Microsoft Web site at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=23302.
Click to expand...
 
BBA said:
So your saying simply installing SP2 breaks the 4GB usage? I never knew that but now I am going to research it.

Thanks for the info, sorry it doesn't help your problem, but if I find something I'll let you know.

But...I still don't have any issues with spurious noises or any abnormal noise in Win64 on my X-Fi. You may have some other issue such as heat in the PC case or a bad X-Fi APU. Especially if you have one of the late first or early second gen cards that did not have a heatsink on the APU.
Click to expand...

Heat is no problem, all temps in the 30's. Stacker 830 in a 18C well a/c room. :)

It's definitely related to 64bit as it only occurs with this os. I only have X1900XTX graphics cards to try to see if that's the problem as it seems to occur most when playing games at lower resolution. (the monitor native is 2560x1600) I could probably borrow an X600 from one of the casino dell machines for a few hours to see.

And yes if you have a 4GB system and install XP pre-SP2 on it and use the /PAE switch in boot.ini you will see 4GB in the system properties sheet. Another benefit of X64 is you can have huge paging files - no more 4095 limit. We have one application that gets upset if less than 16GB paging is available and this required four independent files and disks as using partitions would limit performance.
 
Did you try what I said with the /noexecute=OtpOut ?

Thats what might fix the memory issue by disabling the DEP.
 
For getting the system to see all 4GB of RAM. I've tried all the boot.ini switches. The solution is to use XP64. Then the sound problems ensue. I'll have to listen to it through the analog outputs. I don't care for the headphone output of the elite pro box (driving a pair of UE-10 Pro In Ear Monitors) so I use an external DAC and dedicated amp that's impedance matched. If the digital only is messing up - well that's messed up.

It's almost discouraging enough to go back to 32 bit win, take out two sticks of ram (to gain 1T speed - 7.8GB/S in Sandra!) and use it for a gaming only system.
 
Sorry Rubycon...it has nothing to do with SP2:

prop.JPG


I created a VM with 3600 MB mem (I tried to do 4096 MB but the max memory VMWare ESX allows you to allocate to a virtual machine is 3600 MB)... guess what: XP Pro with SP2 see's all of the memory allocated with no boot.ini modifications at all and no PAE.

I am pretty convinced it IS a bios problem in your case or my VM would have had the same issue with the 3600 MB. This is verified by my friend as well: His dual 252 system has the same issue you have...XP Pro sees only 3 GB while XP64 sees all 4 GB, it is verified to be a bios issue with his Asus RD580 board.

Sorry to break the news to you...someone needs to get on the motherboard makers.


BTW: I added a heatsink to my X-Fi Fatality yesterday, was a chipset cooler I found in my parts drawers. Don't know if it will make any difference since I never had any X-Fi problems anyway.
 
I've installed XP Pro on Xeon servers will 4GB and the SP1 disk installs - sees 4GB in system properties. Install SP2, BAM! 2.98GB. Ditto for my FX60 system. Memory hole has to be enabled in the BIOS to see all 4GB on the FX60 system though. Otherwise all o/s' will only see ~3GB. That's the bios limitation you're speaking of.

Fedora saw all 4GB too.

I've tried installing Windows 2000 on the box but cannot get it to recognize the nvraid array. Installed on an IDE drive and the system just reboots over and over. I actually wanted 2000 for something else.

Currently I'm running XP32 and have no issues whatsoever (outside of losing 1GB of physical memory)

Also the crackling is heard through ALL outputs when 64 bit XP is running. CL has some driver issues. (NO surprise there)
 
Has to be a bios issue with DEP, because DEP is hardware dependant, and SP2 adds support for it. The bios issues may even be related to the X-Fi issues you have.
 
The problem has nothing to do with SP2. It has to do with the physical addressing/memory allocating of IRQ resources and such. 32 bit OSes cannot address more than 3.2GB of memory at a time; the rest, it allocates ("saves") the rest for other things like memory addressing. WinXP 64 bit or a 64bit aware OS will be able to see all 4GB because it is properly coded to see such large amounts of physical memory.

As a matter of fact, most of the earlier non-server/workstation types of motherboards will not even see the physical 4GB of memory; the BIOS would only read 3.2GB, even if you installed 4GB.
 
Then how come every machine I've installed SP2 on that showed 4GB now only shows 2.9-3.5GB? SP2 definitely makes a change (breaks) something here. I seriously doubt this is affecting the sound output as there are no issues with sound with XP32. Dropping to 2GB (two modules) in Win64 does nothing. Other recording interfaces (Roland) have no issues with crackling at all in 64.

Additionally, the Xeon workstation system has no such hardware DEP support. Like the security center and firewall DEP is just another band aid for a real problem for MS. Doesn't look like Vista's going to be much better. <sigh>
 
ajm786 said:
The problem has nothing to do with SP2. It has to do with the physical addressing/memory allocating of IRQ resources and such. 32 bit OSes cannot address more than 3.2GB of memory at a time; the rest, it allocates ("saves") the rest for other things like memory addressing. WinXP 64 bit or a 64bit aware OS will be able to see all 4GB because it is properly coded to see such large amounts of physical memory.

As a matter of fact, most of the earlier non-server/workstation types of motherboards will not even see the physical 4GB of memory; the BIOS would only read 3.2GB, even if you installed 4GB.
Click to expand...


You are seriously confused my friend. All 32 bit Windows OS's from NT4 wks to server to XP Pro to 2003 server havwe had no problems with 4gb memory. It's always been a bios problem limiting it. I have several Compaq servers (DL-380's to 580's to 585's) at work, all running 32 bit server OS's and most have 4GB or more memory. For over 4GB I simply put the /pae switch in boot.ini, for 4GB even I just leave it alone and it see's all 4GB.

XP SP2 just seems to enable DEP that some CPU's support, and then only if bios supports it. Thats why its a bios issue, the bios support is not done correctly.

Or did you not notice the memory amount in my screenshot above?
 
BBA said:
You are seriously confused my friend. All 32 bit Windows OS's from NT4 wks to server to XP Pro to 2003 server havwe had no problems with 4gb memory. It's always been a bios problem limiting it. I have several Compaq servers (DL-380's to 580's to 585's) at work, all running 32 bit server OS's and most have 4GB or more memory. For over 4GB I simply put the /pae switch in boot.ini, for 4GB even I just leave it alone and it see's all 4GB.

XP SP2 just seems to enable DEP that some CPU's support, and then only if bios supports it. Thats why its a bios issue, the bios support is not done correctly.

Or did you not notice the memory amount in my screenshot above?
Click to expand...

I should have made myself clearer. Although it sounded like I was talking specifically about the OS, I was actually referring to the motherboard (BIOS) in particular. That's why I said what I said at the end of my post. You won't have that many issues, however, with that much memory and any OS that is 64bit capable (having to use special switches and such).

I'm quite aware of a few computers that are running WinXP 32bit and are running 4GB of memory. As a matter of fact, we are running some Dell workstations at my work that are exactly like that. I mentioned that those are very rare. Most of the time, either the motherboard manufacturer simply won't pay attention to the proper support for that much physical memory, or the consumer simply doesn't know how to get it to work. It's too much for your average Joe to figure out anyway.
 
The 2 gig user/kernel split is a limitation of 32bit windows. There are some ways around it, but almost none of them are practical for desktop use. Nearly are all aimed at enterprise class servers that run on 32bit hardware and have much more than 4 gigs of memory.

The 3.5 gig cutoff you see on a 4 gig system has to do with being a PCI express system in 32bit windows. I don't know why it is, but thats what I've read.

64bit windows (server 2003, xp x64 edition, vista) is suposed to eliminate all of these problems, and give you all 4 gigs of your ram to do with as you wish. (More or less) I suspect this is why you see semperons and celerons that are 64bit enabled. Soon a system with 2+gigs of ram will be standard, and if you have more than 2 gigs 32bit windows doesn't let you take advantage of it very well.
 
Speaking of x64, I hear the software DVD-A Creative bundles with the cards doesn't work with x64. I just reformatted yesterday and that was the only thing stopping me from updating. Unfortunately I have to rely on the software player for now, as I cannot afford a DVD-A player (Hell, I can't afford much. I'm using my Sony PS2 for a DVD/CD player at the moment)
 
mrporky said:
The 3.5 gig cutoff you see on a 4 gig system has to do with being a PCI express system in 32bit windows. I don't know why it is, but thats what I've read.
Click to expand...

Although we have gone totally off topic...maybe need to pick this up in the motherboard section, but your giving misinformation.

mrporky, What you have read is mere conjecture and the number you state is wrong: XP 32 bit with SP2 will cut off mem at 2.98 GB, much lower than 3.5 GB. On systems that correctly support 4 GB and correctly support DEP for SP2 do not limit memory at all (up to the max windows non server limit of 4 GB.)

The VMWare installation above does not have PCI Express at all. What you see as the 3.5 GB above is simply because of the way I configured the memory in the VM. This is due to VMWare only allowing a max configurable 3600MB per VM (95 MB of that is VM overhead which effectively limits windows to 3.5GB mem). XP with SP2 sees all of it the memory configured to the VM.

What is indicated is a bios issue where physical systems are not working with the DEP component of XP's service pack 2: On the same physical system where windows XP can access all 4 GB memory while running SP1 so far can only access 2.98 GB once SP2 is installed.

Some of the verified problems:

1. Some motherboards do not read 4 GB correctly (ASUS RD580 boards)
2. On systems that allow the OS to see 4 GB may not have correct DEP support, therefore limits memory to ~3GB on systems running DEP (SP2 installed)


FYI: The VMWare server I am using has 32 GB of PC3200 Memory and 4 Opteron CPU's at 2.6 GHz each.
 
Turning off memory hole in BIOS eliminates the crackle and it also drops memory seen to 3GB (even reported in BIOS as 3GB available!).

Any way to get the system to see all 4GB without enabling memory hole?
 
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