any new 30" monitors coming up? aside from the dell 3008

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Atreus

Gawd
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I've run into nothing but trouble in finding any retailers that carry the 305T (as I had to exchange it 4 times for dead pixels and unresponsive buttons to cracked screens and crooked stands - all new displays too, no open box) and would try with this monitor again, but can't find any place that carries them (in Canada btw, and I would prefer to avoid the small shops due to the restocking fee).

So i'm wondering what else is upcoming in the 30" range. I know about the 3008 as well as the supposed samsung with displayport, but is there anything else to look forward to at this size? It seems that there's a bevy of 20-22" monitors out there, but not that many choices at the 30" size.
 
NEC, HP, and Gateway

The Gateway XHD3000 is available now. I had one and did not like so I returned it. I have seen several posts about a new NEC comming in the first quarter of 08. The NEC will be high quality but even more expensive than the Dell. HP will have to update their 30 incher, and as you have mentioned Samsung has an upcomming 30 with displayport.
Ezio Nano was suposed to start shipping their 30 incher this month, you can check it out here: http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/SX3031W/index.asp.

The Dell 3008WFP ship date has slipped several times and from the little bits and pieces I have seen; I think they are having problums with the scaler chip. That is just a guess on my part, but if it is true than Rev A00 will suck no matter what they try to do to fix it.

I have been looking at 30 inchers closely sense the Gateway XHD3000 came out, cause I could really use one, if someone can get it rite.

The current 30s will not work for me, cause I have to test and work at several resolutions.

I sure hope someone can get this rite.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
The current 30s will not work for me, cause I have to test and work at several resolutions.
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You dont need a scaler chip to run at different resolutions, just go into your driver settings and get the drivers to always scale the resolution to match your montior full screen.

I quite happily use my 30" Dell 3007 @ 2560x1600 on the desktop and full screen games @ 1920x1200 or even 1680x1050 for anything that runs slowly. It all looks pretty good, a scaler chip is likely to do a worse job than drivers.

Scaler chips inside the monitor and all the rest of that fancy crap (that the drivers can easily do) are just going to cause a load of additional latency on the display, which isn't worth it especially for gamers.
 
Frosteh said:
You dont need a scaler chip to run at different resolutions, just go into your driver settings and get the drivers to always scale the resolution to match your montior full screen.

I quite happily use my 30" Dell 3007 @ 2560x1600 on the desktop and full screen games @ 1920x1200 or even 1680x1050 for anything that runs slowly. It all looks pretty good, a scaler chip is likely to do a worse job than drivers.

Scaler chips inside the monitor and all the rest of that fancy crap (that the drivers can easily do) are just going to cause a load of additional latency on the display, which isn't worth it especially for gamers.
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I agree with you and frankly am disappointed to see every new monitor come with a large number of non-pc inputs. Scalers can cause more problems (the blackouts in the gateway) and can introduce more lag. That's why I would love to see another monitor like the 305t rather than a monitor that provides inputs for everything.
 
IMO adding extra inputs into these monitors is just a disservice, it's trying to make what is essentially the best PC displays available into an all round large screen.

You don't need expensive 2560x1600 panels for crappy low res consoles and home dvd systems or all the rest of that junk that you would normally plug in through composite or any of the other lower quality inputs. If you want something for your xbox then buy a larger HD TV for cheaper and get a bigger picture and save some pennies

Theres a reason this has only DL DVI (dual linked DVI) because even standard DVI cables cannot carry the native resolution across it.

The old phrase Jack of all trades, master of none, applies well to PC hardware in that quite often you'll find hardware trying to do everything and never doing any 1 thing very well, this is a classic example, you can add all these additional inputs and pipe it all through scalers and loads of other hardware to clean up the image and try and make it presentable for 2560x1600 but chances are you'll end up with only a half decent image with a load of input lag, no thanks.
 
Interesting argument. now i feel better for not waiting for a LCD with all them inputs, and scaler. mind you i really did wish the Dell had a second DVI port for my laptop. Oh well.
 
Frosteh said:
IMO adding extra inputs into these monitors is just a disservice, it's trying to make what is essentially the best PC displays available into an all round large screen.

You don't need expensive 2560x1600 panels for crappy low res consoles and home dvd systems or all the rest of that junk that you would normally plug in through composite or any of the other lower quality inputs. If you want something for your xbox then buy a larger HD TV for cheaper and get a bigger picture and save some pennies

Theres a reason this has only DL DVI (dual linked DVI) because even standard DVI cables cannot carry the native resolution across it.

The old phrase Jack of all trades, master of none, applies well to PC hardware in that quite often you'll find hardware trying to do everything and never doing any 1 thing very well, this is a classic example, you can add all these additional inputs and pipe it all through scalers and loads of other hardware to clean up the image and try and make it presentable for 2560x1600 but chances are you'll end up with only a half decent image with a load of input lag, no thanks.
Click to expand...
Obviously you are in the minority on this since many people complained about the lack of inputs on the old 30" monitors so companies started adding them. If you ONLY use it for your computer you are correct. But if you want an all around monitor for computer, game consoles, and hidef TV or movies you need multiple inputs. You want old consoles using S-Video not composite, and you want new ones and HD DVD using HDMI not composite. The Rivia scaler chip in the Gateway can do a much better job of scaling than a graphics card and it can do it with many different types of sources.
 
There seems to be some new 30" displays on their way for the new year, but is anyone aware if and when LED backlit displays will be released, especially a 30" model?
 
APOLLO said:
There seems to be some new 30" displays on their way for the new year, but is anyone aware if and when LED backlit displays will be released, especially a 30" model?
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January for the samsung XL30(S-PVA), no clear roadmap for 30" LED IPS based panels, last I heard Q3 2008 at the earliest with Q4 availability. The new 30" LG Philips S-IPS panel has only just surfaced in the Dell 3008WFP with wide-gaumt CCFL's, so it wont be replaced for quite a while... LED isnt needed at the moment since the gamut has hit 115-120%, need I mention the $4000++ price tag for the samsung.
 
rinaldo00 said:
Obviously you are in the minority on this since many people complained about the lack of inputs on the old 30" monitors so companies started adding them. If you ONLY use it for your computer you are correct. But if you want an all around monitor for computer, game consoles, and hidef TV or movies you need multiple inputs. You want old consoles using S-Video not composite, and you want new ones and HD DVD using HDMI not composite. The Rivia scaler chip in the Gateway can do a much better job of scaling than a graphics card and it can do it with many different types of sources.
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What im saying is that its the wrong tool for the job, the monitor is just way over the top for low res inputs like that, if you want an all round tool for these sorts of inputs get a HDTV, you can get larger variants (30+) for cheaper, save some money and get something thats appropriate

Piping only HD through this montior doesn't do it justice at all and if you absolutly have to have different inputs you could just pipe the inputs through your video card if you have VIVO, if not just grab a tuner card for cheap and pipe them through that.

These new 30" with the scalers and loads of inputs are significantly more expensive than the older Dell 30" and with no additional image quality, it's cheaper to go with one of these panels and a tuner card than to spend the extra on the monitor.
 
kleox64 said:
January for the samsung XL30(S-PVA), no clear roadmap for 30" LED IPS based panels, last I heard Q3 2008 at the earliest with Q4 availability. The new 30" LG Philips S-IPS panel has only just surfaced in the Dell 3008WFP with wide-gaumt CCFL's, so it wont be replaced for quite a while... LED isnt needed at the moment since the gamut has hit 115-120%, need I mention the $4000++ price tag for the samsung.
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Well, with or without LED backlighting the Samsung XL30 is an anachronistic 4:3 ratio display. Samsung must be targeting a specific market with this model, probably graphics professionals. I wouldn't buy it if it sold for a fraction of the proposed MSRP because I've been using wide-screen ratios for 10 years now. I guess I'll just have to wait then. I already have a 30" display for over two years and won't purchase another one unless there is a massive generational improvement in technology, like LED backlighting, which should drastically improve contrast ratio in addition to color gamut.

Anyway, thanks for all the info. You mentioned a couple of items I wasn't aware about.
 
Frosteh said:
What im saying is that its the wrong tool for the job, the monitor is just way over the top for low res inputs like that, if you want an all round tool for these sorts of inputs get a HDTV, you can get larger variants (30+) for cheaper, save some money and get something thats appropriate

Piping only HD through this montior doesn't do it justice at all and if you absolutly have to have different inputs you could just pipe the inputs through your video card if you have VIVO, if not just grab a tuner card for cheap and pipe them through that.

These new 30" with the scalers and loads of inputs are significantly more expensive than the older Dell 30" and with no additional image quality, it's cheaper to go with one of these panels and a tuner card than to spend the extra on the monitor.
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So all vendors should drop their scaler chips in all LCDs so they can drop the price by 50 to 100 bucks. I don't by it. The lack of inputs is exactly why I have resisted buying a 30 in pannel. I believe that when 30 inchers with scalers and multiple inputs become mainstream. You will have trouble giving away the old ones without them.

A 30 in LCD is the perfect candidate for PIP, PBP, and any kind of gaming (including consoles) or movies. It makes no sense to only have duel link DVI and only have scaling on nVidia graphics cards. I have tested gpu scaling on my 2407WFP rev A03 and the results were too blurry.

The bottom line is the bottom line. If vendors want to make 30 inchers main stream they need to have all of the same features as smaller LCDs. When that happens the price will drop from increased sales and we all win. Beyound that displayport will replace DVI completely, because of bandwidth and the lack of sound in DVI.

The sales figures will be the final judge on this one.

Dave
 
I think the REAL winners in this 30" battle royal are those of us who want one strictly for PC use (writing/editing documents, gaming, coding, etc.) and don't care about all the extra inputs, PIP, etc. As the multi-input 30"ers fight it out, the prices of the current crop are bound to drop significantly. I'm betting on a post-Christmas sale on the 3007WFP-HC and 305T to start clearing out excess inventory. Either of those LCDs around $1000 would be a huge bargain.
 
daveswantek said:
So all vendors should drop their scaler chips in all LCDs so they can drop the price by 50 to 100 bucks. I don't by it. The lack of inputs is exactly why I have resisted buying a 30 in pannel. I believe that when 30 inchers with scalers and multiple inputs become mainstream. You will have trouble giving away the old ones without them.

A 30 in LCD is the perfect candidate for PIP, PBP, and any kind of gaming (including consoles) or movies. It makes no sense to only have duel link DVI and only have scaling on nVidia graphics cards. I have tested gpu scaling on my 2407WFP rev A03 and the results were too blurry.

The bottom line is the bottom line. If vendors want to make 30 inchers main stream they need to have all of the same features as smaller LCDs. When that happens the price will drop from increased sales and we all win. Beyound that displayport will replace DVI completely, because of bandwidth and the lack of sound in DVI.

The sales figures will be the final judge on this one.

Dave
Click to expand...

It's not the perfect candidate, it's specifications far exceed what is required to do the above, and by trying to force older, lower quality standards through such a high definition panel you lower the quality of the panel.

Using a high definition PC monitor for low definition consoles is silly to begin with, and is quite frankly a waste of time and money, why buy something that is twice the resolution of the very best your hardware can output?

If you want HD, get a HDTV something that is a perfect candidate for the above, and pipe your external connections in. I really do hope that good PC monitors keep on using only the appropraite connectors for PC hardware and keep the quality high, as I'm sick and tried of other formats trying to encorach onto PC technology and simply lower the quality.

These sorts of panels are very high quality, and expensive, you're paying a LOT extra to get the additional quality, then to only use that to 1/2 it's potential is just mindblowingly dumb, I say again this is the wrong tool for the job if you want to pipe in low quality images such as 1280x720 or 1920x1080
 
Frosteh said:
What im saying is that its the wrong tool for the job, the monitor is just way over the top for low res inputs like that, if you want an all round tool for these sorts of inputs get a HDTV, you can get larger variants (30+) for cheaper, save some money and get something thats appropriate

Piping only HD through this montior doesn't do it justice at all and if you absolutly have to have different inputs you could just pipe the inputs through your video card if you have VIVO, if not just grab a tuner card for cheap and pipe them through that.

These new 30" with the scalers and loads of inputs are significantly more expensive than the older Dell 30" and with no additional image quality, it's cheaper to go with one of these panels and a tuner card than to spend the extra on the monitor.
Click to expand...

HDTV does not do 2560x1600, that is priority ONE. I am mainly a PC user. We are NOT just piping HD to it. I game at full 2560x1900. Now using a high performnce scaling chip to upscale all inputs to 2560x1600 while still looking GREAT is amazing and is a great bonus! If you think an HDTV will suffice you don't understand our needs.
 
Frosteh said:
It's not the perfect candidate, it's specifications far exceed what is required to do the above, and by trying to force older, lower quality standards through such a high definition panel you lower the quality of the panel.

Using a high definition PC monitor for low definition consoles is silly to begin with, and is quite frankly a waste of time and money, why buy something that is twice the resolution of the very best your hardware can output?

If you want HD, get a HDTV something that is a perfect candidate for the above, and pipe your external connections in. I really do hope that good PC monitors keep on using only the appropraite connectors for PC hardware and keep the quality high, as I'm sick and tried of other formats trying to encorach onto PC technology and simply lower the quality.

These sorts of panels are very high quality, and expensive, you're paying a LOT extra to get the additional quality, then to only use that to 1/2 it's potential is just mindblowingly dumb, I say again this is the wrong tool for the job if you want to pipe in low quality images such as 1280x720 or 1920x1080
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I better say this again since you clearly do not understand. NO ONE is using their 30" monitor JUST for low res inputs. We use them on high end PCs, then as a bonus we ALSO plug in low res inputs and watch EVERYTHING on our 30" monitors in 2560x1600 glory as the great scaling chip make low res look like high res!
 
Exactly, jack of all trades, master of none. It's a PC monitor, you know...for the PC...
 
Frosteh said:
Exactly, jack of all trades, master of none. It's a PC monitor, you know...for the PC...
Click to expand...

Here is a quote for you from the 3008wfp thread:

Dogboy714 said:
I'd love it if someone who has experience with a 3007 would get one of these to compare. If the 3008 scaled 1920 by 1200 well and the text looked as sharp as at 2560 by 1600, I would be seriously impressed.

The 3007 looks like garbage at any resolution other than native due to the lack of scaler, and the fine pixel pitch can be hard on the eyes. Not to mention Crysis being unrunnable at 2560x1600 and craptacular to look at non-native (though I just use no scaling and have learned to live with the black borders).

Oh - and is there any buzz coming from the back of the 3008?
Click to expand...

Looks more like master of none with the 3007wfp.

Your whole issue is price. Most of us are not concerned about that, because we are successful at what we do. We want one big LCD that can handle anything we through at it and fortunately all of the vendors have listened. If you are so sure that a scalar is a bad thing why not call all of the vendors and save them from them selves.

Best of luck

Dave
 
Frosteh said:
Exactly, jack of all trades, master of none. It's a PC monitor, you know...for the PC...
Click to expand...

Your other arguments made NO sense, this at least makes sense. HP, Dell, Apple, Samsung, and Eizo all make PC only 30" monitors, enjoy them.
 
I need at least a 24 incher, so I migh just as well go for 30". Thing is, I have seen not one TFT I felt could replace my old CRT. There's always tradeoffs, and in combinations I do not want to have.

If it has wide gamut and homogenous brightness, it sure as hell has overdrive and input lag. If it doesn't have input lag, color reproduction and viewing angles are bad. Sure, TFTs are a lot sharper than my CRT, but besides that, only drawbacks.

I hope the 30 inchers to be released in 2008 are finally something I can seriously consider buying. Don't want to wait for an eternity until FEDs arrive. However I fear 2008 will be another year of suboptimal TFTs. Heck, I do want to shell out the bucks for a screen. It's the manufacturers who won't let me.
 
APOLLO said:
Well, with or without LED backlighting the Samsung XL30 is an anachronistic 4:3 ratio display. Samsung must be targeting a specific market with this model, probably graphics professionals. I wouldn't buy it if it sold for a fraction of the proposed MSRP because I've been using wide-screen ratios for 10 years now. I guess I'll just have to wait then. I already have a 30" display for over two years and won't purchase another one unless there is a massive generational improvement in technology, like LED backlighting, which should drastically improve contrast ratio in addition to color gamut.

Anyway, thanks for all the info. You mentioned a couple of items I wasn't aware about.
Click to expand...

contrast ratio does not change in the desired way, the black level is a property of the LCD not the backlight. LED's will allow for a brighter display hence the higher contrast ratio however the black level DOES NOT CHANGE.
 
kleox64 said:
contrast ratio does not change in the desired way, the black level is a property of the LCD not the backlight. LED's will allow for a brighter display hence the higher contrast ratio however the black level DOES NOT CHANGE.
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I realize that, hence the reason black levels were NOT mentioned in my post. Thanks for the input just the same...
 
the response time on these eizo monitors are really high!!!!
 
rinaldo00 said:
Your other arguments made NO sense, this at least makes sense. HP, Dell, Apple, Samsung, and Eizo all make PC only 30" monitors, enjoy them.
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My other arguments where that a high res monitor like this is a bad display for low def inputs, which is true, a HDTV with native res of which is equal to what you expect to display is a much better tool for that.

The moment you try and do both things well you fail, these aren't TV's they're monitors to be used with a PC, as soon as you add all the other inputs you need a whole bunch of circutry to clean up the image and scale it well and that just ups the price and introduces input lag.

If you absolutely need other inputs just get a tv card or video card which can accept them, I can all but gurantee that a 3008 will be more expensive than a 3007 with a tuner card of some description (if you're unlucky enough to not have VIVO on your video card)
 
Been waiting for far too long for a new 30", I just don't think I can hold out longer than Jan/Feb so I hope there are a few available then for me to chose from. Hoping the Dell, Samsung, NEC, Apple and LG will be available then. The LG one looks very interesting as well, S-IPS and a colour gamut of 117%. Samsung one uses a S-PVA panel but the LED lighting they use is interesting, also has a higher colour gamut than the LG panel. The panel on the Samsung does put me off though and that monitor is more aimed at the professional market than normal home user. Also will be much more expensive than the others. Will be interesting to see what the Apple monitor is like, not confirmed but strong rumours around they will announce it January.

APOLLO said:
Well, with or without LED backlighting the Samsung XL30 is an anachronistic 4:3 ratio display. Samsung must be targeting a specific market with this model, probably graphics professionals. I wouldn't buy it if it sold for a fraction of the proposed MSRP because I've been using wide-screen ratios for 10 years now. I guess I'll just have to wait then. I already have a 30" display for over two years and won't purchase another one unless there is a massive generational improvement in technology, like LED backlighting, which should drastically improve contrast ratio in addition to color gamut.
Click to expand...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/8.htm#samsung_xl30

It is actually a widescreen monitor mate :)
 
APOLLO said:
Hmm, every link I found indicated a 4:3 ratio monitor. Unless that's outdated info or maybe there are two versions? If it's wide-screen display, I'll definitely look into it.
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It is definitely a widescreen monitor, I think they released squashed pics but soon after released proper pics. The picture they use on that site is straight of Samsung's site so that is exactly what the monitor will look like
 
Jazzz said:
It is definitely a widescreen monitor, I think they released squashed pics but soon after released proper pics. The picture they use on that site is straight of Samsung's site so that is exactly what the monitor will look like
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It's not from the pics, but the actual information on the news sites I found. Look at the link I included in my earlier post.
 
Eizo has announced that they are releasing their flagship 30" CG301W in Q1 of 2008. Surprisingly the response time of this model is better than their typical high-end LCD's which hover hideously around 20-25ms. The CG301W specs 12ms, expect also to fork over near 4K to own one of these beasts.
 
Atreus said:
I've run into nothing but trouble in finding any retailers that carry the 305T (as I had to exchange it 4 times for dead pixels and unresponsive buttons to cracked screens and crooked stands - all new displays too, no open box) and would try with this monitor again, but can't find any place that carries them (in Canada btw, and I would prefer to avoid the small shops due to the restocking fee). .
Click to expand...

that's odd. What month did this happen? Is it a batch of bad shipment?
The 305T has been discontinued, the new model is coming out in Jan 14., called either 305T squared or 305T+
 
SignalPST said:
Eizo has announced that they are releasing their flagship 30" CG301W in Q1 of 2008. Surprisingly the response time of this model is better than their typical high-end LCD's which hover hideously around 20-25ms. The CG301W specs 12ms, expect also to fork over near 4K to own one of these beasts.
Click to expand...
If you take a look at the specs of the Samsung XL30, you'll see that it has a response time of 6ms. Is the Eizo LED backlit?
 
Frosteh said:
My other arguments where that a high res monitor like this is a bad display for low def inputs, which is true, a HDTV with native res of which is equal to what you expect to display is a much better tool for that.
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Yes, and that argument is dumb because I don't want a PC monitor AND a HDTV

The moment you try and do both things well you fail, these aren't TV's they're monitors to be used with a PC, as soon as you add all the other inputs you need a whole bunch of circutry to clean up the image and scale it well and that just ups the price and introduces input lag.

If you absolutely need other inputs just get a tv card or video card which can accept them, I can all but gurantee that a 3008 will be more expensive than a 3007 with a tuner card of some description (if you're unlucky enough to not have VIVO on your video card)
Click to expand...

Tell me how to hook up a PC, TV, DVD, Xbox, and a second PC at VGA to your 3007. This argument that the more things do the worse they are is silly. Take out the heater and the AC out of your car then, they aren't needed to drive. Until you get stats of the input lag on the 3007 vs the 3008 you are just guessing.
 
Rinaldo, don't bother with him. He's bordering on trolling all 3008 and XHD3000 threads.

$20 he's just miffed his 3007 will soon be outdated and outclassed and needs to take it out on us
 
I think Frosteh's concerns might be valid, and not just jealousy. An internal scaler chip may noticeably increase input lag, and that is not a good thing, especially in a monitor clearly designed mainly for PC use, like this (and there is no other practical use for 2560x1600 res other than PC use).

I have an original 3007WFP myself, which I've had for almost two years now. I love it to bits. Now, I would gladly trade it to 3008 if these concerns are shown to be false.
 
APOLLO said:
It's not from the pics, but the actual information on the news sites I found. Look at the link I included in my earlier post.
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I think what happened was people saw the initial pictures which made it look like it wasn't a widescreen monitor and just assumed that was the case. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/5.htm#samsung_xl30 It doesn't make sense to have a 2560x1600 resolution if it isn't widescreen!

You might want to check out the LG monitor I have mentioned as well, apart from not having LED back-lighting it does have some very impressive specs. Out around March I believe.
 
Deusfaux said:
Rinaldo, don't bother with him. He's bordering on trolling all 3008 and XHD3000 threads.

$20 he's just miffed his 3007 will soon be outdated and outclassed and needs to take it out on us
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I was thinking that I was starting to repeat myself too much - I'll drop it ;)
 
rinaldo00 said:
Take out the heater and the AC out of your car then, they aren't needed to drive.
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Bad analogy. Some gearheads have removed their A/C to reduce weight and increase performance.

If performance is your main priority, then the adding of features that may hurt performance is a legitimate concern.
 
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