Any chance of anybody breaking the iOS and Android Monopoly?

IceDigger

IceDigger

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Any chance of anybody breaking the iOS and Android Monopoly?

Only 2 choices available now with windows mobile and BB10 out of the game.

Both Android and iOS are horrible OSs.

Need more choices!
 
Samsung Tizen.

In Japan, I think feature phones broke the monopoly. (Japan is very nationalistic, so they don't want to purchase many not-all-Japanese-designed products, so they use feature phones.)
 
I'm sure another contender will arise at some point, but it will be a while at least. I think Microsoft will always have a presence in mobile, they have the resources to keep throwing money at it. It just seems they've temporarily pulled back on mobile while they "regroup".
 
I thought a monopoly meant one.. but we have 2... So apparently it's already broken and instead it's a duopoly.

Ultimately I don't see anything else breaking through at any point. In the early days of smart phones everyone wanted there own good ideas and stuck to them. Now though whenever a good idea arises it gets copied and everyone can do everything.
 
There's nothing that can even touch the market penetration of iOS and Android these days and for the foreseeable future. iOS offers better performance on its own hardware because it's so optimized and the hardware platform itself is so damned narrow with just 2-3 devices using it introduced to the market each year. Android sucks in terms of performance - face it, that's just the fact of the matter and nothing will change it - because it, unlike iOS which runs on the bare metal hardware, sits inside a virtual machine simply because it was designed that way. Android is like Windows in that respect, an operating system designed from the ground up as a lowest common denominator style piece of code that can run on most anything but isn't particularly well adapted or optimized for any of them

It's the greatest strength of each of those OSes in terms of the ability to be available on as wide a swath of various hardware configurations as possible but it's also the greatest flaw for Android specifically: the fragmentation of Android across so many hardware manufacturers hurts it, drastically at times, but because of there being so many hardware makers it succeeds anyway - it's just sheer numbers now for Android, it's not about performance or even quality and it never really was.

I'm a fan of BlackBerry 10, I own a Z10 and love the device and even though it's damned near 5 years old now and just a "lowly" dual core device it still performs incredibly well and remains responsive even after all this time. If I compare the snappy UI performance to any other device from 2012 which is when the Z10 was introduced it'll run circles around any of them regardless of OS or manufacturer, that's a fact too. But unfortunately BB10 is a dead platform now and it never really was a major "big thing" sadly. I still look at the BlackBerry Store on occasion and I'm nothing but saddened by the nearly unbelievable lack of apps that have ever been created for the platform - it makes me wish I could have been a software dev for BB10 and create a truly killer app that would have brought it out of the shadows and really into the mainstream.

Mind you these days I still see tons of BlackBerry devices, I know a bunch of working professionals that will not use anything else even though they're now Android powered: I have friends with Privs, or or even both of the DTEK models, I know of several people that have pre-ordered the KEYone (the new BlackBerry device being released in a few weeks), and a bunch that still use and swear by their BlackBerry Classics and of their Passports. I never really cared about having a physical keyboard on a device, it was just never a priority for me and the Z10 was the first BlackBerry device I ever owned personally so that didn't matter at that point either. I got it because it was cheap at the time, had great performance, and I just wanted a change I suppose. I'll keep it till it's dead in my hand I suppose, another device relegated to forced obsolescence and obscurity much like my beloved Rio Karma - the best DAP ever made - from long ago or my trusty Dell Axim X51v PDA which was and forever shall be fucking awesome. :)

But for the future, no, it's iOS and Android from here on out. Tizen can't scratch the surface, really, and while Samsung is a major player - the major player in Android these days - they just don't have that much pull in the entire scheme of things to push Tizen on the masses worldwide.

As for Microsoft, they need to just fucking give up and stop throwing money down the proverbial drain. They're never going to make a device running any version of Windows they can create that will make even the slightest dent in overall marketshare to any degree that matters - they'll toss 100x the cash at the project that it'll bring in and they'll just keep doing it. If I could speak with Satya Nadella for a minute that's about all I'd say: "Stop wasting resources on any smartphone, you're dead in the water on that platform, move on... I'm pretty sure even Bill would tell you this if you ask him."

Funny thing: I was watching a movie last night, "The Space Between Us," about the first human born on Mars sometime around 2018 (in the movie timeline, of course), and at about 16-17 years of age this boy makes a return trip to Earth (on purpose), escapes (of course), goes after the one Earthbound human he's ever been in contact with (as expected), and at one point when he's on the run (with the girl) from NASA and the authorities trying to recover him (because of course he's dying from being here) there's a scene where he's in a roadside restaurant making use of a tablet device running a futuristic OS (it's about 2033 so one would expect such a thing to exist then) and some people have what appear to be the transparent smartphones that so many of us imagine will happen someday - just a piece of glass or some other material with bright luminescent displays that you can see through.

I mention that scene because for the briefest moment - only happens for like 1 second or so - one of the people in that restaurant is using an iPhone 7. :)
 
It pretty much goes like this:

Android: Well, I can do this better now!
iOS: Well, we just announced phone (x), and now we have features ( Y) and (z)
Android: Oh, that's cool, BTDubz, we're kinda doing that now too, so it's nothing new.
WP10 and Backberry: OHAI GUYS
Android and iOS: GTFO N00B!!!
 
Eventually there will be another major player, but not next year or anything. I'd say in the next 5 to ten years.

Look at Blackberry ten years ago they we're top dog and Android wasn't even around yet. So ten years from now ? For sure a new player
 
Problem with any new major player coming in is the apps. Microsoft pretty much died on not having apps, therefore not many users, and then therefore no developer making apps. Developing for Windows Phones were the easiest of the three. Windows phones were released with good specs, looks, and price; so it's got to be the apps.

Amazon tried to force their way in with the Amazon Appstore. But we all know how the Fire phone worked out. Luckily, this gave birth to Alexa.

So whichever new player needs the power to convince developers to create apps despite not having many initial users. Unless somehow we go back to the basics. Create a feature OS. Pitch it about security. No apps. And then once you get users, create an app store. With this many folks purchasing that new Nokia Candybar, this might be the path to create the alternative.
 
Why? It is what it is and it is not like they are considered a monopoly anyways. After all, if Google were treated the same way as the Microsoft monopoly of old was, we would have a phone with no music player or web browser included. Instead, we have an OS with a browser than cannot even be removed, meaning Chrome and it takes up space, which on a 32GB phone can be a lot. That said, a better OS does not make a 3rd player option even feasible anymore.
 
CHANG3D said:
Problem with any new major player coming in is the apps. Microsoft pretty much died on not having apps, therefore not many users, and then therefore no developer making apps. Developing for Windows Phones were the easiest of the three. Windows phones were released with good specs, looks, and price; so it's got to be the apps.
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Yes and no. Microsoft did themselves in pretty much which means the apps and developers left. After all, if Microsoft will not sell hardware for their own OS and make their own apps run well on it, why should anyone else? I hate this because I still prefer the Windows Mobile OS, the integration is far better than Android, although that is what I am on now.
 
You won't see one anytime soon. As the saying goes, you can't disrupt the market by having something that's a little bit better -- it has to be a lot better, a fundamental shift that makes you ask why products weren't like this before.

And that was the perpetual problem with Windows Phone and BlackBerry 10. You say Windows' live tiles are neat? Who cares, that's just a different take on widgets. You say BlackBerry 10's hub is more convenient for you? Too bad, notifications are good enough for most people. The Microsoft/BlackBerry selling point basically amounted to "this is a lot like the phone you already have, but there are a few tweaks you might like more." And when those tweaks were neither game-changing nor backed up by the apps people wanted, the platforms didn't really stand a chance.

That's Tizen's problem -- it's basically the Samsung Experience UI, just without most of the apps people like to run.

This is also assuming there isn't some fundamental shift that moves us away from smartphones altogether. This is how Microsoft lost its dominance of the computing landscape, by the way. It wasn't because there was a killer Mac or Linux PC; it was because the PC lost its spot as the center of the tech universe, and Microsoft was unwilling to adapt to the shift. It treated phones as a sideshow and wound up becoming just one of several big companies instead of the monolith it was before. If Apple and Google get knocked off their perch, it'll probably be due to someone else developing a brilliant wearable computing interface, or bionic implants, or holodecks.

As it is, if Android and iOS are "terrible," what would be the definition of a good interface? Definitely not Sailfish or Firefox OS...
 
Tizen will never go anywhere. Honestly it should never be allowed to see the light of day on ANY device. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/samsung-tizen-operating-system-bugs-vulnerabilities

Whatever has the power to displace Android and iOS won't happen anytime soon. Look at Windows. Even with all the viruses, malware, ransomware, and other bullshit (Windows 10 forced upgrade any one?) that has come with Windows for decades nothing has come close to displacing it on the desktop. Android and iOS rule the roost right now and it won't be changing anytime soon.
 
I'm really looking forward to the Blackberry KeyOne, may be just the device to get me to switch from my iPhone (all my shits in the iOS ecosystem, so it's tough to give it up). Lot of good stuff has been said so far (with its gestures and shortcuts, excellent keyboard, same camera as the Pixel, great screen, etc.). Really hoping it delivers. Surprised, we don't have a thread dedicated to it.
 
CHANG3D said:
Looks like Google is up to something themselves.

Whether it will just completely replace Android or be separate from Android is unknown at this time. Because apps have to be developed differently, I'm thinking it'll be separate from Android.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/googles-fuchsia-smartphone-os-dumps-linux-has-a-wild-new-ui/
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It seems like they need one os to rule 'em all, kinda like what Microsoft is doing. In the long run that is definitely the way to go since mobile hardware is getting more than fast enough to give full PC experience. Android will never be option for desktop PCs but if they make new one that works well on all platforms... Microsoft might get some competition.
 
BiH115 said:
I'm really looking forward to the Blackberry KeyOne, may be just the device to get me to switch from my iPhone (all my shits in the iOS ecosystem, so it's tough to give it up). Lot of good stuff has been said so far (with its gestures and shortcuts, excellent keyboard, same camera as the Pixel, great screen, etc.). Really hoping it delivers. Surprised, we don't have a thread dedicated to it.
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The issue is that the KeyOne isn't really "for" us. It's an upper mid-range phone with focuses on productivity and security over the camera and games (although, like you said, the camera is pretty good). It faces an uphill battle against flagships with gigantic screens and the latest processors.
 
Aurelius said:
The issue is that the KeyOne isn't really "for" us. It's an upper mid-range phone with focuses on productivity and security over the camera and games (although, like you said, the camera is pretty good). It faces an uphill battle against flagships with gigantic screens and the latest processors.
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Completely agree, and I 100% knew a comment like yours was coming after as I was writing it, BUT, I'm ok with the fact that it's a productivity/security phone, and not a "look at all this shit!" phone like my iPhone 7. I want something different, and I want the physical keyboard. That's really what it comes down to.

Now, the problem with that, is that it's not enough to sustain the phone's lifespan (statistically speaking), with all the plentiful features that exist in lieu.
 
Aurelius said:
You won't see one anytime soon. As the saying goes, you can't disrupt the market by having something that's a little bit better -- it has to be a lot better, a fundamental shift that makes you ask why products weren't like this before.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. At this point only a delusional person will believe a new OS will break the duopoly. At best, a new OS will only gain a few percentage point, pretty much like Mac and all variants of Linux. Android and IOS are simply too entrenched.
The only reason why Android was allowed to win in the beginning is that IOS is totally proprietary, and many OEMs decide to flock to the Open Source Android instead. Windows Mobile in the early days isn't free, laggy and lack of a app store which pretty much kill it.
 
BiH115 said:
Completely agree, and I 100% knew a comment like yours was coming after as I was writing it, BUT, I'm ok with the fact that it's a productivity/security phone, and not a "look at all this shit!" phone like my iPhone 7. I want something different, and I want the physical keyboard. That's really what it comes down to.

Now, the problem with that, is that it's not enough to sustain the phone's lifespan (statistically speaking), with all the plentiful features that exist in lieu.
Click to expand...

I'm okay with it that way too... but yeah, it's hard to look at that $549 price tag without at least questioning whether or not you'll be missing out. If nothing else, though, the KeyOne is probably the best keyboard-equipped Android phone to date.
 
socialjazz said:
Pretty much this. At this point only a delusional person will believe a new OS will break the duopoly. At best, a new OS will only gain a few percentage point, pretty much like Mac and all variants of Linux. Android and IOS are simply too entrenched.
The only reason why Android was allowed to win in the beginning is that IOS is totally proprietary, and many OEMs decide to flock to the Open Source Android instead. Windows Mobile in the early days isn't free, laggy and lack of a app store which pretty much kill it.
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Even Android's success came partly through a bit of luck -- I remember how it struggled through that first year until the Motorola Droid came out. And the Droid only got the hype it did because the BlackBerry Storm floundered a year earlier. Imagine if the first Storm hadn't floundered, and Verizon hadn't turned to Motorola in desperation for an iPhone rival? I suspect the Galaxy S would have still given Android a boost, but we could be looking at a significantly different landscape where Apple got more of a head start.

On this note: to this day, I still remember how Verizon purposefully buried the Storm 2 launch out of spite for BlackBerry. It was slated to ship the same day as the Droid, and got virtually no mention beyond an "oh by the way, the Storm 2 is coming" piece tacked on to the Droid announcement. It was as if Verizon was leaving a horse head in BlackBerry's bed... fail us again and we will ruin you.
 
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Aurelius said:
Imagine if the first Storm hadn't floundered, and Verizon hadn't turned to Motorola in desperation for an iPhone rival?
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Or just image if Apple hadn't sided with AT&T and was able to release the iPhone on both Verizon and AT&T and/or the other two big carriers. I'm pretty sure the iPhone would have snuffed Android out from the beginning had that happened, or at least severely stunted its growth. But I'm sure that was Apple's preferred strategy with the first iPhone as well, but I'm sure with how cutthroat carriers were at that time (though they continue to be now as well), all of them wanted the iPhone for themselves and I can't imagine how much AT&T paid Apple for the exclusivity for those first few years.
 
Aurelius said:
Even Android's success came partly through a bit of luck -- I remember how it struggled through that first year until the Motorola Droid came out. And the Droid only got the hype it did because the BlackBerry Storm floundered a year earlier. Imagine if the first Storm hadn't floundered, and Verizon hadn't turned to Motorola in desperation for an iPhone rival? I suspect the Galaxy S would have still given Android a boost, but we could be looking at a significantly different landscape where Apple got more of a head start.

On this note: to this day, I still remember how Verizon purposefully buried the Storm 2 launch out of spite for BlackBerry. It was slated to ship the same day as the Droid, and got virtually no mention beyond an "oh by the way, the Storm 2 is coming" piece tacked on to the Droid announcement. It was as if Verizon was leaving a horse head in BlackBerry's bed... fail us again and we will ruin you.
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I wouldn't entirely count it as Blackberry flunking, although Google might not have thought that Android will turn out as successful as it envisioned it to be. Prior to 2010, when IOS is not that entrenched, plenty of OSes have a shoot at making it if they have played their cards right. We all know how it turn out: Windows Mobile was slow at reacting, Symbian was screwed by Nokia's management. Blackberry was still proprietary and with a slow rate of innovation. I think being a free open source and an app store really help Android. At that time, OEMs knew Smart OS is the future and desperately looking for an answer. There were only 2 choices: WM and Droid, and in fact, there were more WM phones than Droid from OEMs in the beginning. WM would have made it if not for MS lack of foresight and still working on last decade UI/interface while others have moved on.
 
T4rd said:
Or just image if Apple hadn't sided with AT&T and was able to release the iPhone on both Verizon and AT&T and/or the other two big carriers. I'm pretty sure the iPhone would have snuffed Android out from the beginning had that happened, or at least severely stunted its growth. But I'm sure that was Apple's preferred strategy with the first iPhone as well, but I'm sure with how cutthroat carriers were at that time (though they continue to be now as well), all of them wanted the iPhone for themselves and I can't imagine how much AT&T paid Apple for the exclusivity for those first few years.
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Believe it or not, Sprint was the first carrier approached by Apple. Steve Jobs didn't like sim cards and thought that CDMA was the future. But Sprint turned him down, partially due to Apple not wanting Sprint to be able to have any control over the phone or let it install carrier bloat, and apparently laughed it off saying nobody wants a dumb smartphone without a pen. If Sprint had welcomed the iPhone and became its first exclusive carrier, Sprint probably would be way better than it is now. And, hell, what would be the landscape of GSM vs CDMA and WiMAX vs LTE?
 
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SteamPhone and its HL3 gaming app... you read it here first. :p
 
CHANG3D said:
Believe it or not, Sprint was the first carrier approached by Apple. Steve Jobs didn't like sim cards and thought that CDMA was the future. But Sprint turned him down, partially due to Apple not wanting Sprint to be able to have any control over the phone or let it install carrier bloat, and apparently laughed it off saying nobody wants a dumb smartphone without a pen. If Sprint had welcomed the iPhone and became its first exclusive carrier, Sprint probably would be way better than it is now. And, hell, what would be the landscape of GSM vs CDMA and WiMAX vs LTE?
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I thought Verizon was the first one... I know they were approached. At any rate, I'm glad that Apple stuck to its guns on eliminating branding and bloatware, as it got carriers to back off of their insistence of controlling every last aspect of their devices. If Apple had budged, your Galaxy S8 would probably come with a crippled, carrier-branded app store instead of Google Play... and it'd probably be branded the "Verizon Star Cluster" with barely any reference to Samsung.
 
socialjazz said:
I wouldn't entirely count it as Blackberry flunking, although Google might not have thought that Android will turn out as successful as it envisioned it to be. Prior to 2010, when IOS is not that entrenched, plenty of OSes have a shoot at making it if they have played their cards right. We all know how it turn out: Windows Mobile was slow at reacting, Symbian was screwed by Nokia's management. Blackberry was still proprietary and with a slow rate of innovation. I think being a free open source and an app store really help Android. At that time, OEMs knew Smart OS is the future and desperately looking for an answer. There were only 2 choices: WM and Droid, and in fact, there were more WM phones than Droid from OEMs in the beginning. WM would have made it if not for MS lack of foresight and still working on last decade UI/interface while others have moved on.
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Oh, the open model and a built-in app store definitely helped Android -- it became the de facto choice for any phone maker who didn't design their own OS. It's just that the Motorola Droid is widely credited as the phone that helped Android finally take off, and a large part of that came from Verizon hyping the phone to the Moon and back while kicking everything else to the curb. If it had enough confidence in the Storm 2 to promote that over the Droid (or at least, on par), or if it just hadn't gone all-in on the Droid, or if Palm had scored a Pre deal with Verizon in time... you could be looking at a different phone landscape.
 
T4rd said:
Or just image if Apple hadn't sided with AT&T and was able to release the iPhone on both Verizon and AT&T and/or the other two big carriers. I'm pretty sure the iPhone would have snuffed Android out from the beginning had that happened, or at least severely stunted its growth. But I'm sure that was Apple's preferred strategy with the first iPhone as well, but I'm sure with how cutthroat carriers were at that time (though they continue to be now as well), all of them wanted the iPhone for themselves and I can't imagine how much AT&T paid Apple for the exclusivity for those first few years.
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Won't repeat what was said about carrier negotiations, but I suspect Apple saw the AT&T deal as a mixed blessing. It limited the company's ability to saturate the market, but at the same time... if Apple had compromised for the sake of getting an early deal with Verizon, the iPhone (and really, the entire phone industry) would have been worse off.
 
Aurelius said:
I thought Verizon was the first one... I know they were approached.
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Nope, this was right when I was at Sprint, and it was a way for us to cope with our shit management situation. "Hey guys, remember when Apple came to us?" *everyone laughs*

Makes it easier to swallow hearing your first hundred "You DON'T have the iPhone? Nevermind, I'll head to AT&T then" of the day.
 
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