Any advantage to Rack Server?

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IntelOwnz

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Oct 29, 2006
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Any big advantage to rack server?
I'm thinking about either building a tower server, or buyin a rackmountable one from Dell

I don't currently have a rack, that would be an additional expense (it will end up sitting on a shelf for a few months until i save for a rack)
 
If you don't have a rack, there is really no use buying it for a single server.

The advantages? You can secure the whole rack to the floor, and thus all the servers, switches, etc are secured to the rack- nothing moves.

It also allows for easier access to everything, generally just keeps your mess more organized.

Saves floor space- going vertical rather than horizontal.

I wouldn't get a rack if its just going to be for one server. Just get a tower.
 
Rack servers are also good for density; lets see you squeeze 42 "tower" servers in a single rack (however, 42 1U rack-mount servers will fit).
 
I was thinking about building a rack maybe with parts from HomeDepot or Lowes. Cost maybe $100?

I figured I would make it heavy and use all Hex so if someone ever attempted to steal the server they wouldn't be able to...Good idea or no?


edit: Would cost me about $300 more to get a rack server from Dell as compared to building the system myself for $600.
 
Have fun building your own rack -- it wouldn't be a task I would pursue.

I'm sure there are a few people here that will be able to point you in the direction of small, inexpensive racks.
 
IntelOwnz said:
I was thinking about building a rack maybe with parts from HomeDepot or Lowes. Cost maybe $100?

I figured I would make it heavy and use all Hex so if someone ever attempted to steal the server they wouldn't be able to...Good idea or no?


edit: Would cost me about $300 more to get a rack server from Dell as compared to building the system myself for $600.
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Like I said- its pretty pointless for just one server. You are goint to end up spending that $300 more for really no advantage at all.
 
Ok good points guys, I'm going to just get a tower server to replace my other tower server..

I thought it might have been wise to order the new server as a rack, but the cost is just too much for what I am using it for. Thanks guys!
 
I could see a rack a good investment if you are going to buy a rackmount server, add some patch panels, as wells as switches and a rackmount KVM monitor/keyboard.
A rack server will probably be louder since they are usually thinner and have very loud, small, and fast spinning fans inside. I'd personally go with the rackmount.
Is this for your home or business?:confused:
 
easy on the hate for racks :)

Check out an excellent project of a DIY rack and rackmount servers here http://rack.modzone.dk/index.htm I am in the process of converting my rigs over to rackmount as well, given the number I have the minor cost increase is well worth the space saved.
 
AMD_RULES said:
I could see a rack a good investment if you are going to buy a rackmount server, add some patch panels, as wells as switches and a rackmount KVM monitor/keyboard.
A rack server will probably be louder since they are usually thinner and have very loud, small, and fast spinning fans inside. I'd personally go with the rackmount.
Is this for your home or business?:confused:
Click to expand...

This is for home use, but I run a small business out of my home, designing websites and networking for small businesses.

The issue I had was this, I thought about going with Rackmounted because if I built my own rack I could make it extra heavy so that theves could not steal it, but we're talking a lot of money here.

I always thought about having one central room where all the computers were stored, and then running mouse/cable/usb cables to stations so that the computers were all on one location, safe, and cool.

edit: I don't have to make this decision now, I won't be purchasing for about 3-4 weeks but it's coming up so I got it on the brain...
 
I built my own rack out of 2x4s and L brackets for support. The rack rails I bought at a local electronics store. I think they were 16 U rails. I bought two of them. One for the front and one set for the back of the rack. I have had it almost completly full with servers and switches. I built it to suite my needs and still works great today. I put casters on the bottom so I could wheel it around the basement when needed.
Here is a picture I dug up (Not when it was full):
normal_rack.gif
 
You can get a 20" deep 21 U rack for around $200 shipped. Look for middle atlantic slim 5. They also make 26" deep ones. where I got mine.
edit: you'll need sliding rails + the cost of the rack.
 
IntelOwnz said:
This is for home use, but I run a small business out of my home, designing websites and networking for small businesses.

The issue I had was this, I thought about going with Rackmounted because if I built my own rack I could make it extra heavy so that theves could not steal it, but we're talking a lot of money here.

I always thought about having one central room where all the computers were stored, and then running mouse/cable/usb cables to stations so that the computers were all on one location, safe, and cool.

edit: I don't have to make this decision now, I won't be purchasing for about 3-4 weeks but it's coming up so I got it on the brain...
Click to expand...

sounds to me that a rack would suit your needs better from what you plan or would liket to do. Which dell server are you considering?
 
AMD_RULES said:
sounds to me that a rack would suit your needs better from what you plan or would liket to do. Which dell server are you considering?
Click to expand...


I was actually thinking about ordering the Dell PowerEdge 860
Configured with:

Pentium D 915 2.8Ghz
1GB DDR2667
2x 160GB SataII Drives


I thought about only ordering one drive and then ordering one from Newegg but I only save about $30 and I'd rather not mess with this thing since the 3 year basic service plan is built into the price...I wish it wasn't

Come out to: $1085 includes tax and shipping

I can build the same tower for 1/2 the price....I'm starting to realize how much rack servers cost...
Any good way to build your own rack server? I've only ever built towers, but I imagine it would be like building a laptop, very very tough.
Took a look at Barebone systems as well as pre-built systems on Newegg, nothing cheap


edit: Just took a look at newegg, and found a few 4U cases that are basically a rackmountable tower to tell ya the truth. This is a possibility, just build my own server and put it in a rackmountable case?
 
morpheus6d9 said:
do you have pics of your rack
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;) Perve... haha

On topic, Main advantages to rack servers is their portability (they're not riduclously heavy, though they can be, having said that), securability, reliabilty (usually can be fitted with Redundant PSUs, Quad CPUs, RAID and lotsa RAM), ease of access and the fact you can stuff a LOT of 1U rack servers into a full height rack. Not so with a tower.
 
Ebay is your friend I got my rack for 30 local pickup. Nice adjustable depth rack...so long as you like IBM blue in your dining room.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Ebay is your friend I got my rack for 30 local pickup. Nice adjustable depth rack...so long as you like IBM blue in your dining room.
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I love the Big Blue..seriously they make good Laptops and I'm glad Lenovo seems to be holding up the same standard of quality

Who needs support? lol
Sure it does hold some value, but not a that much of a price difference.

I'll probably end up searching for a cheap rack, building my next server in a rack case (3 or 4U), using some crazy Hex bolts to lock everything to the rack, and then weigh down the rack somehow by bolting weights or something to the rack itself.

In the mean time I think I will just backup the server to dvd, hide the dvd's somewhere in my house, and then backup the data to my gmail account.

Comments/Suggestions feel free.

Thanks,
Shawn
 
piako said:
```
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No I really need the rack to weigh a lot, loss prevention. Going to get one with locked doors, large, heavy, and use some crazy hex bolts to lock the servers in place. Also going to buy a fireproof lockbox and put that in the locked cage, maybe bolt it to it if possible, and put all my backup dvds/flashdrives in there.

Sound good, or just plain crazy?


I got robbed once before at my current location, luckily it was years ago before I had this business. I lease a townhouse, so I cannot put biometric locks on doors, bolt things to studs, etc.


$1000 server+300 rack + 200apc is almost doable. Should have about $1000 in 2 weeks and should have the rest within 4-5 weeks from now.


edit: Now the question is, get a good used server? Or get a decent Dell. Or custom build it?
I have a backup server (the one I am currently using, they will mirror themselves in case the main guy goes down, and newegg gives you 1 yr replacement on just about everything, I am leaning toward custom but those Dell's look sweet!!)

edit2: If I go with custom, should I get 2,3, or 4U case? Only needs to fit mobo, psu, 2 hd's maybe 3, dvd-writer. onboard video, no pci cards. Has to be ATX and has to fit a Pentium D's stock HSF.
 
IntelOwnz said:
No I really need the rack to weigh a lot, loss prevention. Going to get one with locked doors, large, heavy, and use some crazy hex bolts to lock the servers in place. Also going to buy a fireproof lockbox and put that in the locked cage, maybe bolt it to it if possible, and put all my backup dvds/flashdrives in there.

Sound good, or just plain crazy?


I got robbed once before at my current location, luckily it was years ago before I had this business. I lease a townhouse, so I cannot put biometric locks on doors, bolt things to studs, etc.


$1000 server+300 rack + 200apc is almost doable. Should have about $1000 in 2 weeks and should have the rest within 4-5 weeks from now.


edit: Now the question is, get a good used server? Or get a decent Dell. Or custom build it?
I have a backup server (the one I am currently using, they will mirror themselves in case the main guy goes down, and newegg gives you 1 yr replacement on just about everything, I am leaning toward custom but those Dell's look sweet!!)

edit2: If I go with custom, should I get 2,3, or 4U case? Only needs to fit mobo, psu, 2 hd's maybe 3, dvd-writer. onboard video, no pci cards. Has to be ATX and has to fit a Pentium D's stock HSF.
Click to expand...
Newegg has some decent 4U cases. You will also need rails. The 400 pounds is the load capacity and not the weight of the rack. You can get side panels and front doors that lock and also if you could you can bolt the rack to the floor using concrete anchors. These use gun ammunition to accelerate a anchor into the concrete. If you cannot anchor I would not tell anyone of the data room and keep it out of site like in the basement or in a closet so people outside can't see. It would take a theif a while to steal a rack mount I assume.

Perhaps someone else can chime in about soho rack security.
 
piako said:
Newegg has some decent 4U cases. You will also need rails. The 400 pounds is the load capacity and not the weight of the rack. You can get side panels and front doors that lock and also if you could you can bolt the rack to the floor using concrete anchors. These use gun ammunition to accelerate a anchor into the concrete. If you cannot anchor I would not tell anyone of the data room and keep it out of site like in the basement or in a closet so people outside can't see. It would take a theif a while to steal a rack mount I assume.

Perhaps someone else can chime in about soho rack security.
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought the rack itself was 400lbs...dang

There are a couple including a few Antec's, looking to spend less then $250-300.
I swear Dell tries to trick people, they are advertising double ram and free processor upgrade...but you are actually paying more!! I priced the same system today and it came up as $1163 but came up as 1085 yesterday.... Extra $80 for the same thing...both prices include tax and shipping.
 
If you are going to be putting doors and sides on the server rack (baically a cabinet) then remember the heat load in the cabinet. You will have problems with more than one server in there, as the heat has no where to go.

As far as your backup DVDs in a fireproof safe... not the best solution. If there were a fire, your DVDs would be warped, at best, due to the high heat they would be subject to. If you have information that requires backups, then definately consider offsite storage. This storage can be a friend's house (in a safe of course) or a safe deposit box at a bank.

As far as theft, if you have a full size (7ft) rack in your house, put the servers into the rack and use a non standard head screw (torx or square heads, etc) so it will be hard to take out of the rack in a hurry. Just having that big rack will make it nearly impossible to take out of your house without someone noticing. Also, remember to lock the front doors, and as I have said in another security thread, maybe go the extra mile if you are extremely paranoid, put a steel security strap around the case so you cannot remove the front panel or side panels without unlocking a padlock. Also, lock the drive trays.
 
crash848 said:
If you are going to be putting doors and sides on the server rack (baically a cabinet) then remember the heat load in the cabinet. You will have problems with more than one server in there, as the heat has no where to go.

As far as your backup DVDs in a fireproof safe... not the best solution. If there were a fire, your DVDs would be warped, at best, due to the high heat they would be subject to. If you have information that requires backups, then definately consider offsite storage. This storage can be a friend's house (in a safe of course) or a safe deposit box at a bank.

As far as theft, if you have a full size (7ft) rack in your house, put the servers into the rack and use a non standard head screw (torx or square heads, etc) so it will be hard to take out of the rack in a hurry. Just having that big rack will make it nearly impossible to take out of your house without someone noticing. Also, remember to lock the front doors, and as I have said in another security thread, maybe go the extra mile if you are extremely paranoid, put a steel security strap around the case so you cannot remove the front panel or side panels without unlocking a padlock. Also, lock the drive trays.
Click to expand...


What about thumbdrives? Still going to be warped?

I thought these things were supposed to keep the contents cool? Guess not.

I'm going to get a Half-rack probably. I'm not sure about side panels, I suppose as long as the front and back were locked and the server bolted in, they would not be able to get it. And as long as the drives are in tact that's fine.

I will definetly look into getting some off-site storage, maybe even sign up online for something.

Setting up a server at a friends house just isn't practical, the electricty alone would kill it, when I can sign up online and pay 5 or 10 bucks a month.
 
IntelOwnz said:
What about thumbdrives? Still going to be warped?

I thought these things were supposed to keep the contents cool? Guess not.

I'm going to get a Half-rack probably. I'm not sure about side panels, I suppose as long as the front and back were locked and the server bolted in, they would not be able to get it. And as long as the drives are in tact that's fine.

I will definetly look into getting some off-site storage, maybe even sign up online for something.

Setting up a server at a friends house just isn't practical, the electricty alone would kill it, when I can sign up online and pay 5 or 10 bucks a month.
Click to expand...

Most fireproof safes are designed to keep documents from combusting. Not to protect CD/DVD media or the likes. Unless you get a fireproof safe that is designed for protecting media, I'd stick with online backups or a safe deposit box.

The company that owns WinZip has unlimited online data backup for $5/month or $50/year or $90/2 years.

www.carbonite.com

They also have a 15 day free trial!

Honestly a half rack will prolly cost you more than a full rack. Your best bet is to check craigslist or do a search on ebay and limit the search to only items within 50-100 miles of your zip code.
 
If you have information that requires backups, then definately consider offsite storage. This storage can be a friend's house (in a safe of course) or a safe deposit box at a bank.
Click to expand...

Once a month, my dad makes a DVD backup of his computer and puts it in his safe deposit box at the bank.

The company that owns WinZip has unlimited online data backup for $5/month or $50/year or $90/2 years.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on what information he wants stored. Online data backup I think is fine for basic personal files like pictures, music ect. But if he's running a business, I think he's going to have more vitial data that I personally wouldn't trust online. I personally would feel more secure doing a once a month backup on DVD and hand placing it in the safe deposit box then allowing it to be housed in a server somewhere. Basically, I trust the bank with vitial information (customer names, address, credit cards, finacial information) then an online data storage compnay.
 
IntelOwnz said:
Any big advantage to rack server?
I'm thinking about either building a tower server, or buyin a rackmountable one from Dell

I don't currently have a rack, that would be an additional expense (it will end up sitting on a shelf for a few months until i save for a rack)
Click to expand...

I was toying with the idea at various times in the past.

The advantages are:
- easy to move the whole thing, including network switches, UPS etc
- machines stack on top of each other, not side-by-side

However, I found:
- no rackmount chassis for 13x16" boards at less than $2000
- too loud, it is much easier to make a tower quiet
- the towers hide under desks, that saves considerable space
 
I am going to look into that carbonite site, $5/month seems very reasonable.

The files I need to backup are just website files, nothing confidential.



Ok I'm not sure where you saw $2000 for a full rack? Maybe top of the line brand new with all the goodies.
 
mikeblas said:
That's the capacity of the rack, not its weight.
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Yea someone mentioned that already...How much do these things usually weigh? Either way I would end up chaining it to large weights to make it near impossible to steal.


For all the trouble I am going through I wonder if it may be better to just get a dedicated/shared server???

edit: Dedicated servers cost too much, I may end up going with just a tower. I don't think we're ready for a rack set yet, just too expensive. The cost of server+rack+weights was just too much when compared to just a tower server.

Plus this Carbonite Backup system is really cool! I'm using the trial right now to test it out but I'm going to end up subscribing soon
 
A basic, open frame rack is going to weigh around 100 pounds before you add any gear. A rack with side panels and doors is going to weigh at least another 40 to 50 pounds (or more if they're steel side panels as opposed to plastic). Add to that whatever gear you mount in there and it's going to get heavy and akward to move pretty quick.

Keep in mind too that a full sized rack (42U) is going to be over 6 feet tall... it's not like they can throw it in a back seat or trunk of a car........ Add to that the annoyance of all the wires coming out of the thing (network, KVM, power, etc)... The likelyhood of you basic theives boosting that setup is slim...

Of course, nothing will stop someone who's determined to steel your stuff, but most theives just looking to make a quick buck (for drugs or whatever). A rack setup is probably more trouble that what they could sell it for.
 
jpochedl said:
A basic, open frame rack is going to weigh around 100 pounds before you add any gear. A rack with side panels and doors is going to weigh at least another 40 to 50 pounds (or more if they're steel side panels as opposed to plastic). Add to that whatever gear you mount in there and it's going to get heavy and akward to move pretty quick.

Keep in mind too that a full sized rack (42U) is going to be over 6 feet tall... it's not like they can throw it in a back seat or trunk of a car........ Add to that the annoyance of all the wires coming out of the thing (network, KVM, power, etc)... The likelyhood of you basic theives boosting that setup is slim...

Of course, nothing will stop someone who's determined to steel your stuff, but most theives just looking to make a quick buck (for drugs or whatever). A rack setup is probably more trouble that what they could sell it for.
Click to expand...



As much as I would love to get a rack setup, it's a little on the expensive side, unfortunetly we're a small business and that is just not feasible right now.

We're probably going to go with a tower server and use Carbonite to backup the important files. We are going to take out extra insurance to cover the server in case of theft; the insurance was very cheap but we cannot take any risk that if stolen or damaged that our insurance provider will not cover it.

This definetly saves a lot of money, and will allow us to put more money toward other things such as perhaps a faster server, faster internet connection, bigger office, better laptops, etc.



Thanks for all the help guys!
 
slowbiznatch said:
Have fun building your own rack -- it wouldn't be a task I would pursue.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking about doing this myself since I'm basically broke for the foreseeable future. There used to be instructions on how to do this back in the day, but my old shortcuts have stopped working. So I hit google and came up with these instead:

http://www.dysan.net/Hotwire/network-rack.php
http://www.dysan.net/Hotwire/network-rack-pics.php

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-6350_11-5034407.html

If anyone knows the instructions I'm talking about, please post a link. They were posted here a few times about 2 or 3 years ago, but have long since been lost.
 
[OC]Pik4chu;1030827342 said:
easy on the hate for racks :)

Check out an excellent project of a DIY rack and rackmount servers here http://rack.modzone.dk/index.htm I am in the process of converting my rigs over to rackmount as well, given the number I have the minor cost increase is well worth the space saved.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking about doing this myself since I'm basically broke for the foreseeable future. There used to be instructions on how to do this back in the day, but my old shortcuts have stopped working. So I hit google and came up with these instead:

http://www.dysan.net/Hotwire/network-rack.php
http://www.dysan.net/Hotwire/network-rack-pics.php

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com...1-5034407.html

If anyone knows the instructions I'm talking about, please post a link. They were posted here a few times about 2 or 3 years ago, but have long since been lost.
Click to expand...

check my post earlier in this thred (quoted above) for a DIY rack and rackmount cases. BTW the links you posted are a home project using a commercial telco rack. A well done project indeed but not home made :)
 
[OC]Pik4chu;1030863738 said:
check my post earlier in this thred (quoted above) for a DIY rack and rackmount cases. BTW the links you posted are a home project using a commercial telco rack. A well done project indeed but not home made :)
Click to expand...

Let this post die please...if you don't mind
 
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