Antistatic Bag Alternatives?

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XacTactX

Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm in the process of selling a GPU, and it just dawned on me that I don't have any anti static bags to put the GPU in.

I did some googling and found out that aluminum foil does just as good a job at eliminating the chance of ESD. What are your thoughts about using aluminum foil instead of an anti static bag?

The main reason for this is that I don't upgrade components often, so the $5 spent on a pack of ESD bags will do nothing for me after this sale.

Thanks a bunch.

My dilema has been solved. Read about it below.

First, thank you everyone for your advice on this subject. Here's what I did, I placed the 4860 inside a thick brown paper bag, the kind found in B&M shops. I then took some aluminum foil and wrapped up the brown bagged GPU, making sure to not have any part of the brown paper bag exposed. The retail box my 4860 came in was already a tight fit anyway, and with this packaging, it didn't have room to move at all inside the box. I imagine that this helped its chances of survival.

I received a message from the buyer, stating that he had just plugged in the graphic card, and that it was in fully working order . :)
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought of the anti static bags as insulating the devices from outside static charge. Wouldn't aluminum foil be a conductor rather than an insulator?
 
Yes There are capacitors which store energy in motherboard. Aluminum foil could short them out which is unwanted.
 
Thanks for the reply Al. :)

Can anyone confirm or deny Al's advice? I'd like to get at least one second opinion before taking any advice on this.

I read multiple stuff on threads where people talk about a Faraday cage. As long as the object doesn't have any free electrons beforehand, the Al foil will absorb any coming in from the outside, therefore not allowing them to reach the electronics.
 
I would say a zip lock bag should be a little safer than a paper bag.
 
Actually Wood/Paper bag wont Conduct so its safe. Plastic is not safe cause it CAN Conduct. XFX's warranty States that if your GPU is defective & you dont have an Anti Static Bag Ship the GPU in a Brown PAPER bag.
 
4LC4PON3 said:
Actually Wood/Paper bag wont Conduct so its safe. Plastic is not safe cause it CAN Conduct. XFX's warranty States that if your GPU is defective & you dont have an Anti Static Bag Ship the GPU in a Brown PAPER bag.
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Flipping awesome! If a manufacturer says it's alright, I'm all for it. Thanks again.
 
this is directly from the PDF they emailed me when I shipped out my GPU to them

Please avoid the use of soft packages or padded mail envelopes as they will not provide adequate protection for the product. Any damage caused by inadequate protection during transit will void the warranty and the product will be shipped back as is.

Please put the product in an anti-static bag (use a brown paper bag if an anti-static bag is not available) before packing the product. Avoid any materials which may increase risk for static electricity discharge such as aluminum foil, electrical tape, duct tape, etc. Only the faulty item is required. Please do not send any accessories
 
Yeah I was about to add DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGS.... I instantly thought of rubbing peoples head on a balloon and creating tons of static. I imagine a baggy can be similar a little bit at least?

Thanks for the awesome tips alcapone
 
Brown paper bag is good.

However, Aluminum foil will also protect the device, but only from external charge. This is due to electromagnetic shielding. For example, if you're in a metal car, or in a metal cage and lightning hits the car/cage, it will do nothing to you.

However, if the capacitor on the device stores charge, and the Al comes in contact, that can conduct.
However, no capacitor used on any computer device will hold charge for more than 20-30min tops. Leave it out for an hour, and you can be more than sure all caps are discharged.
Or you could touch each individual capacitor with a screwdriver which will bleed the charge into the screwdriver. Just make sure the screwdriver doesn't touch two caps at once.
 
Man, you guys have no clue what you are talking about.
Do you really know what ESD is? Before the days of conductive foam and conductive anti-electrostatic bags, aluminum foil was used for static sensitives electronics. The whole idea is to keep all pins of an electronic device at the SAME ground potential while it is unused. So you want something that conducts. This has nothing to do with magnetism or anything else. Plastics, fabrics, even paper can hold a electrostatic charge. Just moving them around and especially transporting them can cause an ESD and zap a static sensitive semi-conductor.
If you need to ship a CPU, aluminum foil is a good to prevent ESD, but not ideal. the original package is best because it is designed to protect the pins from physical damage.
 
OK I've read on a few forums that people recommend placing the GPU in a paper bag, then wrap the bag in Al foil. Would that be the best of both worlds?
 
Furystrike said:
Your handle is fitting
Click to expand...

For the subject matter at hand; I am an expert.
I have been in the electronics business for nearly 30 years now.
It was clear that nobody in this thread had a clear understanding of what Electrostatic discharge was or how to prevent it. Or even the dielectric properties of different materials.
So for you kids that only know what your friends tell you; the blind are leading the blind.
 
Expert on antistatic bags : )

When shipping a GPU without the original packaging - it's best to find a small, form-fitting box or wrap it in a paper bag, as XFX recommends, seal that, & wrap that in bubble wrap, then seal that inside a box that prevents movement.

ESD effects CPUs and motherboards a lot more than GPUs, primarily due to the enclosed case and large heatsink covering the components that could be more easily damaged. You still want to prevent the buildup of static electricity that bubble-wrap can produce in transit, so it's best to have a neutral item between them, such as the materials mentioned above.
 
Meleniumshane90 said:
Expert on antistatic bags : )

When shipping a GPU without the original packaging - it's best to find a small, form-fitting box or wrap it in a paper bag, as XFX recommends, seal that, & wrap that in bubble wrap, then seal that inside a box that prevents movement.

ESD effects CPUs and motherboards a lot more than GPUs, primarily due to the enclosed case and large heatsink covering the components that could be more easily damaged. You still want to prevent the buildup of static electricity that bubble-wrap can produce in transit, so it's best to have a neutral item between them, such as the materials mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Look guys.
If you want to prevent damage to a semiconductor, be it a CPU, GPU or some other static sensitive device the idea is to "short" all the pins of the device together so there cannot be a difference in potential (voltage) from one pin to the next. All and anti-static bag is a plastic bag with some form of conductive material embedded in it.
The most simple solution is aluminum foil if you do not have the suitable packaging or a anti-static foam (that black spongy foam) to put the pins against.
It is possible for electrostatic charges to built up in high dielectric materials. That is plastics, paper, rubber, most non metallic materials.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Look guys.
If you want to prevent damage to a semiconductor, be it a CPU, GPU or some other static sensitive device the idea is to "short" all the pins of the device together so there cannot be a difference in potential (voltage) from one pin to the next. All and anti-static bag is a plastic bag with some form of conductive material embedded in it.
The most simple solution is aluminum foil if you do not have the suitable packaging or a anti-static foam (that black spongy foam) to put the pins against.
It is possible for electrostatic charges to built up in high dielectric materials. That is plastics, paper, rubber, most non metallic materials.
Click to expand...

so what you're saying is, to not take XFX's advice, even though they require it for RMAs?
 
Ship it in water.

/fail

my vote for a paper bag, or go to your local pc shop and ask for a handful.. Im sure they have more than enough to share.
 
The most sensitive part of any electronic device is the gate of a mosfet, because its a very thin oxide layer any high potential will vaporize it. Anything that either eliminates stray potentials (static(paper bags)) or makes it so that there can be no potential across the gate of a mosfet (Al Foil) work. Just throw it in something and you'll be fine. Don't go to crazy, you got caught with your pants off, just pick whatever works best for you and make sure you have the proper equipment for next time!

Good luck.
(correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the post office sell anti-static bubble wrap? (the pink stuff))
 
Aluminum foil sounds good:D Toss a couple of Winter Green Life Savers in there for good measure:p
 
XacTactX said:
I'm in the process of selling a GPU, and it just dawned on me that I don't have any anti static bags to put the GPU in.

The main reason for this is that I don't upgrade components often, so the $5 spent on a pack of ESD bags will do nothing for me after this sale.
Click to expand...

You don't have the ESD bag for the 4860, and you also don't have the ESD bag for the 6850 that you just bought? Always keep these things for proper packaging if you plan to sell them later.

You make a point "I can include the items found in the retail package if the buyer wishes." The ESD bag I consider to be one of the items found in the retail package, and frankly the most crucial one. Even in a card-only sale, I think it goes without saying it would come with the/an ESD bag? It would be nice for the buyer to know this item is not available, and let them be a part in the decision making process? Don't leave this up to a Dr. Righteous to hopefully come along with the best advice.

Dr. Righteous said:
So for you kids that only know what your friends tell you; the blind are leading the blind.
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I don't understand why while searching around forums (plural) for how to package the card, he apparently hasn't even done a C.Y.A. e-mail to the buyer to see how the person giving them money for the item would like it packaged? If XFX says A, forumer A says B, forumer B says C, but the buyer says D? I go with D!

That supposed $5 spent on a proper ESD bag costs less than the hassle it can cause if how you ship it doesn't meet what they desire. They are, after all, paying for it, why not at least also contact them?

j-sta said:
so what you're saying is, to not take XFX's advice, even though they require it for RMAs?
Click to expand...

XFX's first advice was to use an ESD bag.

Personally the best advice is if you don't know how to package something or don't have the proper materials and won't get them, and won't do what the buyer would want you to do (ship it in the/an ESD bag), then just take it to UPS. If they package it for you, it's 100% covered, even from their own screw-ups.

And UPS's pink ESD bags don't cost $5.
 
Find a local PC shop.

The one I worked at had hundreds of ESD bags of all shapes, plastic memory holders, HDD holders, everything. No one ever asked for one but I doubt we wouldn't give you one for free, we had drawers just stuffed with them.
 
Tolyngee said:
Long unnecessary tirade about not having a real ESD bag.
Click to expand...

The two pieces of advice you gave(albeit being a dick about it the whole time, and quoting three different people, making it much longer than it needed to be) are: Use an ESD bag and cater to the buyer's needs.

An ESD bag is a part of the retail package in your opinion, not mine. It's an accessory that allows electronics to be transported without being damaged. Any proper method that ensures the same end result will work. I asked to be explained the proper method of doing this, not be reprimanded in a long-ass post for not having a legitimate ESD bag. Next time, save yourself the trouble of spending half an hour quoting three people and reading my FS to bitch me out. It's all off-topic, and doesn't answer my OP.

And FYI, the 6850 I got came in a plastic shell which isn't the same size, the 4860 won't fit inside it.
 
XFX recommended that a paper bag be used in the case that a real ESD bag isn't available. Good enough. Done.
 
Jfkfhhfj said:
The most sensitive part of any electronic device is the gate of a mosfet, because its a very thin oxide layer any high potential will vaporize it.
Click to expand...
Correct! Great precise point to make that I neglected.
Jfkfhhfj said:
Anything that either eliminates stray potentials (static(paper bags)) or makes it so that there can be no potential across the gate of a mosfet (Al Foil) work. Just throw it in something and you'll be fine. Don't go to crazy, you got caught with your pants off, just pick whatever works best for you and make sure you have the proper equipment for next time!
Click to expand...

Somewhat ambiguous. You make a precise point at the start of your post and then you say something that pretty much contradicts it.

"Anything that either eliminates stray potentials (static(paper bags)) or makes it so that there can be no potential across the gate of a mosfet (Al Foil) work. Just throw it in something and you'll be fine."

Anything?
Methinks everyone is only seeing one side of the coin here. Thinking in terms of an outside source of someone walking up and zapping the device with a static charge. That is a real hazard. But the main reason ESD protections are taken are because static charges exist all the time in dielectric materials.
But "Stick it in a paper bag" is bad advise for any static sensitive electronics. It will keep the dust off of it, and may offer some isolation from outside static, but it is not in any way a proper ESD protection because it itself can gain a static charge because it is a dielectric. Early capacitors uses paper because it has good dielectric insulating properties.
So for instance; Wrap your static sensitive device in a paper bag. Put that in a box of packing peanuts. Then you give it to the UPS man for a trip across the country. There will be lots of shaking, giggling and vibration, all charging dielectric materials with a static charge. Guess what this static charge will likely discharge to? A conducting device. Your electronics. Then you get an angry phone call from party B because you shipped them defective electronics.
Am I splitting hairs here? Maybe. But still, there is a right way and a wrong way.
If the vendor says "stick it in a paper bag" then take your chances if you like. Will they give you credit if it is DOA?? (maybe depending on the situation)
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Post #28(truncated).
Click to expand...

You seem to have a much more intimate understanding of the forces at work than any of the other individuals who have posted in this thread so far. Thank you for going to such great lengths to give accurate information for the good of all, even after people tried to disprove your ideas. I will be using the method you suggested(wrapping in Al foil) when the time comes for me to sell my GPU. I will probably use this method for any other electronics I have to transport, too(if I don't have an ESD bag).

Thanks again, you were a great help. :)
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Correct! Great precise point to make that I neglected.


Somewhat ambiguous. You make a precise point at the start of your post and then you say something that pretty much contradicts it.

"Anything that either eliminates stray potentials (static(paper bags)) or makes it so that there can be no potential across the gate of a mosfet (Al Foil) work. Just throw it in something and you'll be fine."

Anything?
Methinks everyone is only seeing one side of the coin here. Thinking in terms of an outside source of someone walking up and zapping the device with a static charge. That is a real hazard. But the main reason ESD protections are taken are because static charges exist all the time in dielectric materials.
But "Stick it in a paper bag" is bad advise for any static sensitive electronics. It will keep the dust off of it, and may offer some isolation from outside static, but it is not in any way a proper ESD protection because it itself can gain a static charge because it is a dielectric. Early capacitors uses paper because it has good dielectric insulating properties.
So for instance; Wrap your static sensitive device in a paper bag. Put that in a box of packing peanuts. Then you give it to the UPS man for a trip across the country. There will be lots of shaking, giggling and vibration, all charging dielectric materials with a static charge. Guess what this static charge will likely discharge to? A conducting device. Your electronics. Then you get an angry phone call from party B because you shipped them defective electronics.
Am I splitting hairs here? Maybe. But still, there is a right way and a wrong way.
If the vendor says "stick it in a paper bag" then take your chances if you like. Will they give you credit if it is DOA?? (maybe depending on the situation)
Click to expand...


A dielectric is good at insulating because it does not allow an electric charge to pass through it. If a paper bag were sealed, then the static charge from all that rubbing and shaking would be on the outside of the bag and would not be able to zap anything inside.
 
One caution about Al foil. It will need to touch every surface to effectively short everything to the same potential. This is not real easy to guarantee which is why XFX does not recommend it. Metalized plastic bags are anti static and provide a Faraday shield. The bags where the shield is virtually 100% coverage provide the most protection. The pink bags are anti-static but don't provide any shielding. A brown paper bag will be less likely to accumulate charge than a plastic so while it's not the worst thing you could do it does little to help. If you are determined to not buy anything I might suggest a heavy brown paper bag surrounded by Al foil.
 
ryan_975 said:
A dielectric is good at insulating because it does not allow an electric charge to pass through it. If a paper bag were sealed, then the static charge from all that rubbing and shaking would be on the outside of the bag and would not be able to zap anything inside.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. Charge on the outside surface will affect charge on the inside surface.
 
XacTactX said:
You seem to have a much more intimate understanding of the forces at work than any of the other individuals who have posted in this thread so far. Thank you for going to such great lengths to give accurate information for the good of all, even after people tried to disprove your ideas. I will be using the method you suggested(wrapping in Al foil) when the time comes for me to sell my GPU. I will probably use this method for any other electronics I have to transport, too(if I don't have an ESD bag).

Thanks again, you were a great help. :)
Click to expand...

You can buy high quality static bags in bulk.
If you deal computer components a lot, it would be a pretty go investment.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/108-3914

those are like 53c a bag if you buy 100. Not bad.
 
I think we can consider this question adequately answered.
 
First, thank you everyone for your advice on this subject. Here's what I did, I placed the 4860 inside a thick brown paper bag, the kind found in B&M shops. I then took some aluminum foil and wrapped up the brown bagged GPU, making sure to not have any part of the brown paper bag exposed. The retail box my 4860 came in was already a tight fit anyway, and with this packaging, it didn't have room to move at all inside the box. I imagine that this helped its chances of survival.

I received a message from the buyer, stating that he had just plugged in the graphic card, and that it was in fully working order :).
 
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