Anti-Sony Hackers Attacking Employee Families and Children?

fattypants said:
Noninvasive civil disobedience only works for so long. They've written on forums. They've sent suggestions and complaints to the RIAA, Sony, and their ilk. They've complained to their lawmakers. Nothing is happening. In fact, it seems the lawmakers constantly look to do the opposite of the will of the people.

So we're at step 2. Nonviolent harassment, since non-harassing avenues have proven ineffective. Then it will escalate. The government will respond by cracking down. The people will step up their disobedience.
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There is no step 2. If you fail to inspire people with your civil disobedience, you don't escalate from there. At least not if you're any kind of decent person. Copyright law isn't minorities getting dragged out of their homes in the night or religious persecution. People need to get a grip.

One act of violence from either side (the police or the people) will be the end result if nobody listens to the people.

Nobody wants harsh laws to escalate, but when the copyright organizations/government want something like streaming a video to be a felony, they're escalating the situation.
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So what you're saying is that if they don't listen, eventually Anonymous will be justified in going around killing lawmakers, their families, and *AA executives over annoying copyright laws?

Where is the line drawn? Can you just do whatever you want until they listen?
 
Escalating doesn't necessarily mean killing lawmakers or any kind of violence.

There hasn't been a revolution in a western first-world country in the internet age. Maybe people like Wikileaks & Anonymous will be the start of something great. Eventually people will stand up and say enough is enough. It wont happen in my lifetime but it will start somewhere.
 
To add:

Do you all really think this will accomplish anything? Nope. Anonymous will shoot itself in the foot once again, only turning the public against them even further and ultimately getting nothing. They'll get bored of this "cause" after they get thwarted once, and move on to something else, like they always do.

I'm tired of Anonymous "fighting" for the things I believe in. All they do is ruin things by making everyone opposed to crazy copyright laws look like a bunch of thugs and criminals.

Anonymous robs people with legitimate concerns of their voice by muddying the waters.
 
NKDietrich said:
There is no step 2. If you fail to inspire people with your civil disobedience, you don't escalate from there. At least not if you're any kind of decent person. Copyright law isn't minorities getting dragged out of their homes in the night or religious persecution. People need to get a grip.
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Should the Egyptians have gotten a grip? They harassed their lawmakers quite a bit. Should the participants in the Boston Tea Party have gotten a grip? They broke quite a few laws and destroyed a lot of property by commandeering ships and chucking tea into the ocean.

NKDietrich said:
So what you're saying is that if they don't listen, eventually Anonymous will be justified in going around killing lawmakers, their families, and *AA executives over annoying copyright laws?
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You're saying that, not me. But history shows that people will do whatever it takes if they're pushed hard enough.

NKDietrich said:
Where is the line drawn? Can you just do whatever you want until they listen?
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What other choice do they have? People can choose between legal options and illegal options to change how things are done. Guess what options they take when you remove their legal ones. I'm against violence to force change, but eventually someone (or a group of someones) will come along that isn't as peaceful as I am.

Every revolution in history was illegal.
 
NKDietrich said:
All they do is ruin things by making everyone opposed to crazy copyright laws look like a bunch of thugs and criminals.
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No, propaganda piece like this story make them look like a bunch of thugs and criminals. The thugs and criminals are the ones who want to suspend the rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness so that a group of shareholders can see better short-term profits.
 
If Sony weren't such dicks... I might've felt a little bad. But they aren't and I don't. Especially if this is just more bs they are spouting, then I don't think I'd even feel bad if someone snipes them a new leg.
 
NKDietrich said:
It's all the same shit. They are a loosely organized band of criminals, nothing more, nothing less. They don't care about laws, they don't even really have any kind of coherent moral boundaries. They just attack whoever they disagree with.

They, and anyone who supports their actions, should be legally barred from ever using a computer or the Internet.

Sorry folks, but if you have a problem with a person or organization, handle it within the law. Vigilantes should be harshly punished.
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Sony fits this description just as well as Sony Recon. One uses flesh and blood proxies, one electronic proxies. Sony has absolutely no coherent moral boundaries, they just happen to have the bankroll to purchase the laws (or failing the actual legislation at least the legal decisions) they desire. Corporate campaign contributions/Bribes are what should be punished harshly.
 
Kueller said:
Sony fits this description just as well as Sony Recon. One uses flesh and blood proxies, one electronic proxies. Sony has absolutely no coherent moral boundaries, they just happen to have the bankroll to purchase the laws (or failing the actual legislation at least the legal decisions) they desire. Corporate campaign contributions/Bribes are what should be punished harshly.
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One way to start would be to outlaw Lobbying same as they did with Influence Peddling, their one and the same, Corporations decided that Lobbying sounded better helped change the laws to make it so,and legalized it.
 
fattypants said:
Should the Egyptians have gotten a grip? They harassed their lawmakers quite a bit. Should the participants in the Boston Tea Party have gotten a grip? They broke quite a few laws and destroyed a lot of property by commandeering ships and chucking tea into the ocean.
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Last I checked, the Boston Tea Party arose from real issues with stuff being foisted upon them without representation. That's not the case here. People can say the government is bought off by corporations and what-not, since that's pretty much true, but again, what does harassing Sony employees have to do with that? They should be attacking the government. What's these peoples gripe? Oh yeah, they are mad that Sony is cracking down on people pirating their stuff. :rolleyes:

You're attaching noble motives and some grandiose goal to people who just want to cause trouble and like to get away with it. Again, insulting to people who are actually trying to affect real change.

You're saying that, not me. But history shows that people will do whatever it takes if they're pushed hard enough.
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It's a good thing then that they are pushing pimply faced script kiddies with entitlement complexes rather than actually oppressing people then.

What other choice do they have? People can choose between legal options and illegal options to change how things are done. Guess what options they take when you remove their legal ones. I'm against violence to force change, but eventually someone (or a group of someones) will come along that isn't as peaceful as I am.
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And they'll solidify public support against whatever cause they are trying to fight for. That's the problem. The public, by and large, doesn't support the causes these thugs do. If they had to rely on public support, they'd fail. That's why they just stalk, harass, and DDoS.

Every revolution in history was illegal.
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Revolution? Are you shitting me? There is no revolution, just a bunch of people who want something for nothing and are afraid to put in any real effort to affect change. Again crediting a bunch of criminals with something they haven't earned.

fattypants said:
No, propaganda piece like this story make them look like a bunch of thugs and criminals. The thugs and criminals are the ones who want to suspend the rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness so that a group of shareholders can see better short-term profits.
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Liberty and pursuit of happiness doesn't involve stealing games. And let's be clear, that's the problem here. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who'd run homebrew stuff on a PS3, or install Linux, or whatever. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who'd just love free games.

Kueller said:
Sony fits this description just as well as Sony Recon. One uses flesh and blood proxies, one electronic proxies. Sony has absolutely no coherent moral boundaries, they just happen to have the bankroll to purchase the laws (or failing the actual legislation at least the legal decisions) they desire. Corporate campaign contributions/Bribes are what should be punished harshly.
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So two wrongs make a right? If you feel the system is broken, fight to fix it. If you're going to resort to illegal means to do so, at least do something effective that won't get public sentiment turned against your cause.
 
NKDietrich said:
So two wrongs make a right? If you feel the system is broken, fight to fix it. If you're going to resort to illegal means to do so, at least do something effective that won't get public sentiment turned against your cause.
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That all depends on what or whose context of Right you choose to subscribe to.

I'm sure the British felt the exact same way when those damned ungrateful colonists decided to make trouble just because huge intercontinental trading companies and the lords in London controlled everything. Two wrongs don't make a right damn it. They did make America though...
 
Not that I condone it, but they poked the hornet's nest. I honestly hope it gets much much worse from here on, just to show that you shouldn't mess with consumers and certainly shouldn't sue them for something so stupid.
 
NKDietrich said:
Liberty and pursuit of happiness doesn't involve stealing games.
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The president's IP czar wants felony convictions and prison time for IP violations as little as streaming a video. I'd say prison is a pretty big damper on liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Also, nobody mentioned anything about stealing games; perhaps you mean copying?
 
NKDietrich said:
So what you're saying is that if they don't listen, eventually Anonymous will be justified in going around killing lawmakers, their families, and *AA executives over annoying copyright laws?

Where is the line drawn? Can you just do whatever you want until they listen?
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So what you're saying is that if they stream videos, eventually Sony will be justified in going around killing consumers, their families, and Linux users over annoying "rights"?

Where is the line drawn? Can you just do whatever you want until they listen?
 
Seriously you anti sony folks are hilarious, i mean its as bad as 911 truthers out there.
Break out the tin foil hats at the massive sony conspiracy! lol...

I dont care who did what, or what did who. Leave kids out of it. No kid deserves that kind of shit no matter what or who their parents are. Thats just crossing a sacred line imo.
 
4saken said:
I dont care who did what, or what did who. Leave kids out of it. No kid deserves that kind of shit no matter what or who their parents are. Thats just crossing a sacred line imo.
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No kid deserves what? Would you like to contribute to the conversation?
 
With no regards to who is right and who is wrong:

Ever see the movies, hackers and Johnny Pnumonic. Every day these news posts makes it seem like we are getting there, device / service is offered, device / service is bent to the way consumers want, MFG changes to dis allow use of goods their way, some users revolt and go "underground"
 
This reminds me of all the movies where someone is running from the secret police and the sold out news outlets report horrible shit about them.

"This just in Anon has sex with Prawns and that just sick."
 
I have to agree that regardless of how you feel about Sony, resorting to the tactics these groups take is crossing the line. Sony, or any company, is only as good as its consumers allow. I dont care how big a company is, if it has to rely on consumer support in order to be successful, then there is still a very powerful option to express opposition. If you can convince enough people that your cause is important, then eventaully they wont buy goods/services from them and that will send a clear message.

Now of course if you dont think you can do that, or if dont care what the public thinks anyway, then youll go down this road of an underground, 'secret' movement lashing out in all sorts of ways in the name of your cause.

Its one thing to protest for your cause or to try and convince the public to support your cause, but its another to attack in this manner. im not even talking about going after ceo families, etc. all of these attacks to disrupt Sony services may make these hackers feel good and give them a power trip, but it doesnt help promote their cause among the people.

Think about it, just take gamers as an example. Do you think cutting off thier access to PSN is going to garner support for your cause? No, instead it just angers them and makes you look bad. The reaction Ive seen is almost completely against the actions these groups have taken becuase of that. So just keep in mind that when you attack companies in this way, your also having a direct impact on the people you claim to be fighing for.
 
4saken said:
Seriously you anti sony folks are hilarious, i mean its as bad as 911 truthers out there.
Break out the tin foil hats at the massive sony conspiracy! lol...

I dont care who did what, or what did who. Leave kids out of it. No kid deserves that kind of shit no matter what or who their parents are. Thats just crossing a sacred line imo.
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So far your caught up in a story in a magazine, no facts, no arrests, no convictions. Until there is its all Misinformation to sway public support.
 
The saga continues. The Anonymous attacks on the PSN continue, Sony claims to have it all under control, PS3 owners continue to being hosed. Anyone able to connect to the PlayStation Network?

Starting with the declaration of attack by hacker group "Anonymous" earlier this week, PSN has been experiencing sporadic issues over the past few days -- Sony characterized the outages as "intermittent" earlier this week, and promised that "engineers are working to restore and maintain the services." As of the time of publishing, we have been unable to connect to PSN today through several staff accounts.
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No, it is disrupting my netflix and everything. Rather irritating to be honest.

Anon wants to fuck with sony? fine whatever. However screwing over customers like myself is not gaining them any support.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Anon wants to fuck with sony? fine whatever. However screwing over customers like myself is not gaining them any support.
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I'm sure the Boston Tea Party didn't result in the support of tea drinkers either.

But their goal is not support; it's attention to the issues at hand.
 
fattypants said:
I'm sure the Boston Tea Party didn't result in the support of tea drinkers either.

But their goal is not support; it's attention to the issues at hand.
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Wow, did you seriously just compare this to the Boston Tea party? :eek: ....this isn't the same..not by a landslide.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Wow, did you seriously just compare this to the Boston Tea party? :eek: ....this isn't the same..not by a landslide.
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Honestly it is a very important thing for future of the idea of 'ownership'. This ruling in favor of Sony will basically say you don't own something you purchase....
 
I wasn't able to get on PSN at all on Monday, yesterday it was fine when I tried it though but it looks like it's down again.

Lol @ this whole mess. Sonys management could of handled this whole situation a lot better than it has... Anon sucks, but I can't help but appreciate the egg they're tossing all over sonys face (and lower back) lol. I can't think of a company more deserving of it
 
necrosis said:
PSN being online is required for Netflix? That's news to me.
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Yeah, it's really lame. I can't believe that Netflix agreed to it. Anytime there is any sort of maintenance, you're SOL (at least from your ps3). Its better than hulu plus though... To use it, you need to subscribe to Playstation plus.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Wow, did you seriously just compare this to the Boston Tea party? :eek: ....this isn't the same
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I'm sure the imperialists were saying the same kinds of things back then. "It's just some tea. So what, you pay a little more taxes? If you don't like the tax, DON'T DRINK TEA. It's that simple. Why are you people so worked up?"

Some people have principles and they act on them.

It's not about pirating games, it's about a corporation having control over how you use what they sold to you, to the point that they can force you into lifelong debt, or if the White House's IP czar has her way, felonies and imprisonment.
 
Kiznilian said:
Honestly it is a very important thing for future of the idea of 'ownership'. This ruling in favor of Sony will basically say you don't own something you purchase....
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I agree this is important, and I am completely opposed to Sony's pov. My hardware is my hardware and I should be able to do whatever I damn well please with it. I supported Anon's going after sony up until it started impacting my experience. If they want to fight with sony, then fight with sony. Don't screw the rest of us over in the process. There is ZERO need to ddos PSN nor does it accomplish anything except piss off non sony people and lose support for a cause.



dr.stevil said:
Yeah, it's really lame. I can't believe that Netflix agreed to it. Anytime there is any sort of maintenance, you're SOL (at least from your ps3). Its better than hulu plus though... To use it, you need to subscribe to Playstation plus.
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Beats having to pay for a Live membership on the 360...
 
fattypants said:
I'm sure the imperialists were saying the same kinds of things back then. "It's just some tea. So what, you pay a little more taxes? If you don't like the tax, DON'T DRINK TEA. It's that simple. Why are you people so worked up?"

Some people have principles and they act on them.

It's not about pirating games, it's about a corporation having control over how you use what they sold to you, to the point that they can force you into lifelong debt, or if the White House's IP czar has her way, felonies and imprisonment.
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The point was, you are talking about two extremes here. These situations in no way compare.

See my last point, I am not going to get into a debate on it. Just saying the comparison is asinine.
 
fattypants said:
Some people have principles and they act on them.

It's not about pirating games, it's about a corporation having control over how you use what they sold to you, to the point that they can force you into lifelong debt, or if the White House's IP czar has her way, felonies and imprisonment.
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I couldn't have said it any better myself. I can't say I appreciate how Anon is handling the issue at hand, but it's better then bending over and taking it up the butt like your average consumer. The more light they bring to the situation (yes, you will damn well know what's going on when you can't hit PSN), the better the outcome (hopefully) for consumers as a whole.

... on another note, I'm so damn tired of being told what I can and cannot do with the hardware I purchased. I just stop buying the hardware, but unfortunately for every 1 of me... you have 10 more completely ignorant consumers who fervently buy the POS because it's fashionable at the time. It sucks to be the minority sometimes...
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I agree this is important, and I am completely opposed to Sony's pov. My hardware is my hardware and I should be able to do whatever I damn well please with it. I supported Anon's going after sony up until it started impacting my experience. If they want to fight with sony, then fight with sony. Don't screw the rest of us over in the process. There is ZERO need to ddos PSN nor does it accomplish anything except piss off non sony people and lose support for a cause.





Beats having to pay for a Live membership on the 360...
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What do you have against having a Live Gold membership? You do realize you can still have a free Silver membership right?

Also I'd like to point out that when the company of your beloved hardware attached to the internet irks a group like Anonymous, the end result is that they're going to be attacked on all fronts. For Sony that includes PSN. They are out to hurt Sony. Yes it sucks that consumers like you get caught in the crossfire, but keep in mind, a group like Anonymous just doesn't throw darts at a board to find someone to pick on today. I'll say Sony started it first by pulling a bait and switch, then getting mad when someone comes along to restore what was originally promised. Yet you are mad at Anonymous just because you can't get online, because it "ruined your experience"? Didn't Sony technically already start ruining your experience a long time ago when they started removing features?
 
I've been wondering why i've been having to try to connect several times before I can watch netflix.
 
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