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Antec Phantom 500: Me Want!

bah - I've heard of too many problems with the Phantom 300

The Seasonic Tornado is a more proven unit and is very quiet
 
Most of the problems you read are going to skew your opinion... whenever ppl ask if there's been a problem with something, you are more likely to get way more responses from ppl that have had a problem because they want to complain about it. The ppl who are satisfied have no reason to go hunting for a place to vent their complaints because they have none, therefore, you hardly ever hear from the ppl who don't have problems.

There was a poll conducted by SilentPCReview that was followed by Antec quite closely, and Antec reported that out of several thousand units sold in N. America, only a handful had problems.

I've got a water cooled Dual Athlon MP 2800+ w/ 2x120s in RAID0, a 6800 OC'd to Ultra speeds as the major power drainers and using the Kill-A-Watt, my peak power draw is only 250W... which is well within the range for the Phantom 350 due to its 85%+ efficiency... just got to swap it in to try it.

EnderW said:
bah - I've heard of too many problems with the Phantom 300

The Seasonic Tornado is a more proven unit and is very quiet
Click to expand...
 
soekev said:
I've got a water cooled Dual Athlon MP 2800+ w/ 2x120s in RAID0, a 6800 OC'd to Ultra speeds as the major power drainers and using the Kill-A-Watt, my peak power draw is only 250W... which is well within the range for the Phantom 350 due to its 85%+ efficiency... just got to swap it in to try it.
Click to expand...
I'm concidering getting one of the Phantom 350's...how can i see how much juice my computer is using ATM?

thanks
 
soekev said:
Most of the problems you read are going to skew your opinion... whenever ppl ask if there's been a problem with something, you are more likely to get way more responses from ppl that have had a problem because they want to complain about it. The ppl who are satisfied have no reason to go hunting for a place to vent their complaints because they have none, therefore, you hardly ever hear from the ppl who don't have problems.
Click to expand...

Amen to that.


HighwayAssassins said:
I'm concidering getting one of the Phantom 350's...how can i see how much juice my computer is using ATM?

thanks
Click to expand...

Like soekev said: A Kill-A-Watt. GREAT tool for the box. ;)
 
if I remember right, there isn't a big difference in spec between the Phantom 350 and 500
 
HighwayAssassins said:
there is no windows utility to measure the wattage?
Click to expand...

No, because your motherboard can't monitor how much amperage is being pulled by all of your components. Think about it: Even if the motherboard could tell you how much juice is going through the motherboard connectors, how does it know what the drives, fans, lights, etc. are using?

For a quick guesstimate, try this calculator: http://takaman.jp/D/?english

If your product is not on any particular drop down so the values are 0, don't leave them blank and if you don't know.. don't guess. Just find something on the list that's similar.

This will tell you what your 3.3V, 5V and 12V loads may be at max. Then compare that with the 3.3V, 5V and 12V capabilities of the power supply.
 
soekev said:
you hardly ever hear from the ppl who don't have problems.
Click to expand...

well as long as you discount the PCP&C fanatics that is :p
<cough>computerpro3</cough>


MartinX nice find
I think the 350 Phantom is a remarkable supply
why most of the extra capacity for the 500Watt isnt going to the +12V rails seems disconcerting looks like just one extra amp to the +12V1
 
soekev said:
Most of the problems you read are going to skew your opinion... whenever ppl ask if there's been a problem with something, you are more likely to get way more responses from ppl that have had a problem because they want to complain about it. The ppl who are satisfied have no reason to go hunting for a place to vent their complaints because they have none, therefore, you hardly ever hear from the ppl who don't have problems.

There was a poll conducted by SilentPCReview that was followed by Antec quite closely, and Antec reported that out of several thousand units sold in N. America, only a handful had problems.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt' trust Antec's response there at all. They said the total number of defective Phantoms was in single digits in N. America. A website like SilentPCReview already has more than that in their poll and I didn't even vote (yes, I bought one and it failed).

Antec claimed that most returns were actually not defective or bad units and that most people returned perfectly working ones. I think there maybe some truth to it, perhaps it has something to do with its overload/overheat protection preventing the Phantom from correctly turning back on after shutting itself down?
 
Spectre said:
Polls are worthless on BBS.
Click to expand...

If SilentPCReview's poll is worthless, Antec wouldn't have monitor it themselves. You need to have S/N of the power supply to vote there.
 
tonyou said:
If SilentPCReview's poll is worthless, Antec wouldn't have monitor it themselves. You need to have S/N of the power supply to vote there.
Click to expand...

Its better to not say anything and appear to be the fool,than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

That poll is still not accurate even with a serial number. Are statistics and sampling no longer taught in schools?
 
Spectre said:
Are statistics and sampling no longer taught in schools?
Click to expand...

you mean?

"There are three kinds of Lies,
Lies, damn lies and statistics". - Mark Twain

:p

passive convection (fanless) PSU however do have a much higher failure rate than forced convection PSUs

its just the basics of the Arrhenius Equation
they run hotter and fail sooner
 
Ice Czar said:
you mean?

"There are three kinds of Lies,
Lies, damn lies and statistics". - Mark Twain

:p
Click to expand...

Never can remember the origin of that quote.

passive convection (fanless) PSU however do have a much higher failure rate than forced convection PSUs

its just the basics of the Arrhenius Equation
they run hotter and fail sooner
Click to expand...

Oh understand why they do have a higher failure rate but a poll that simply requires a SN is not scientific, so it is worthless. It will attract people with a strong prejudice oneway or the other because they have to seek it out, it does not randomly sample the population of owners. And it is more likely to attract people who have had units fail as they are the most apt to say something. Happy people are content, upset people are content to bitch ;)
 
I notice the Phantom's load regulation listed at 5%. All the Truepowers are listed at 3%. Perhaps this is just a by-product of running a mostly passive thermal solution? Seeing the 3% with the Truepowers was definitely more attractive than competing makes.
 
AntecRep said:
SPCR's poll covers the world. We gave numbers for North America... And if you read that whole thread you'll see we stepped up to support those customers who had problems.
Click to expand...

I am not busting your balls about was done with bad units, I am busting the guy's balls who thought a poll on a website was a properly conducted poll using a random selection of owners. Self reported data is the least accurate and most biased data you can collect. Without the poll being a real survey of a random sample of all owners of said item using proper sampling procedures and analysis the poll is worthless. Sorry but the collection method for the data invalidates the data.
 
Spectre said:
I am not busting your balls about was done with bad units, I am busting the guy's balls who thought a poll on a website was a properly conducted poll using a random selection of owners. Self reported data is the least accurate and most biased data you can collect. Without the poll being a real survey of a random sample of all owners of said item using proper sampling procedures and analysis the poll is worthless. Sorry but the collection method for the data invalidates the data.
Click to expand...

I guess you never bothered to check out the poll for yourself then. I am not saying the poll is an accurate analysis of all Phantom PSU's failure rate. It is definitely not worthless as AntecRep will probably agree with me. I merely used the evidence from the poll to suggest that perhaps their power supply failed more than Antec claimed.

An AntecRep posted in SilentPCReview on Feb. 4 claiming there were only 7 bad Phantom PSUs returned to them in North America. If you look at the reports in the poll of bad PSUs from North American users that failed before February, there were 8 of them. So what does this tell us? All failed Phantom PSU in North America are readers of SilentPCReview? I am sure there are more people that didn't bother voting like I did (or they didn't know about this poll). So perhaps most of us returned power supplies that are still good or Antec is slow in receiving their returned items to accurately calcuate their failure rate?
 
tonyou said:
I...Antec is slow in receiving their returned items to accurately calcuate their failure rate?
Click to expand...

That is VERY likely.

A small shop might sit on the product for a week or two before they send it back to their distributor and they might sit on it for another month before obtaining an RMA from Antec.

Then you have big VAR's that buy direct. Newegg, for example, will sit on product until they have enough to shrink-wrap to a pallet to send back! :D How long can that take? ;)
 
tonyou said:
I am sure there are more people that didn't bother voting like I did (or they didn't know about this poll). So perhaps most of us returned power supplies that are still good or Antec is slow in receiving their returned items to accurately calcuate their failure rate?
Click to expand...

Thanks for proving my point right there. Self reported data=unreliable.

I am not going to sit here and explain to you how poor a design one website it pole is. How it doesn't randomly sample, control for bias, reach a large enough sample size, etc. Not my job and I really don't give two shits but it is enlightening to see how poorly math in general and statistics in particular is in your case. I can't say in general obviously because my sample size is to small.
 
Ice Czar said:
thanx AntecRep ;)

have you heard anything about ATX12V spec changing again to include an 8 pin auxillary +12V mobo connector (like for PCI-E 150W)?
Click to expand...

I personally haven't but I'll ask around.
 
Ice Czar said:
thanx AntecRep ;)

have you heard anything about ATX12V spec changing again to include an 8 pin auxillary +12V mobo connector (like for PCI-E 150W)?
Click to expand...
Yes (link to follow when I find one). It is basically to support dual-core processors more reliably; they are just bundling two ATX12V connectors (the two-by-two squares) together into a four-by-two.
 
I ask becuse of the hint dropped at Trusted Reviews a few months ago
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1014
Added to this is a new eight pin 12V connector, which will eventually replace the four pin 12V connector, but this is unlikely to happen for a few months yet.
Click to expand...

but whereas dual cores add maybe 1.5A +12V (18W)
PCI-E jumped from 75W (6.25A) to 150W (12.5A)
and some early reports have a few GPUs up in the +200W total class (PCI-E 150 + dual auxillary)


I mean merging EPS12V and ATX12V just makes alot of since to me, at least as far as connector compatibility and even in common plane 3x12V rails

and with Intel driving both specs...
 
I've just finished a pretty in-depth review of the Phantom 500 for anyone who still be considering it...

Really great PSU in my experience. I find the fan is barely ever on (and never loud enough to hear over my CPU - which isn't very loud).

Antec Phantom 500 Review: http://gamezuk.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=8
 
GamezUK said:
pretty in-depth
Click to expand...

we are a little hard on reviewers around here so take this commentary and those that will likely follow within that context but....

in-depth looks like this
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/psu-methodology.html
w\ full blown crossload charts and traces

to exceed more than a simply cursory review you need to employ more than a static config
Like jonnyGURU, Mike Chin, Lee Garbutt or as linked above Oleg Artamonov

that said thanx for the review and welcome to the forums ;)

if your interested this is a great place to get real info about torturing PSUs ;)
 
GamezUK said:
I've just finished a pretty in-depth review of the Phantom 500 for anyone who still be considering it...

Really great PSU in my experience. I find the fan is barely ever on (and never loud enough to hear over my CPU - which isn't very loud).

Antec Phantom 500 Review: http://gamezuk.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=8
Click to expand...

Do you want feedback about why that review is not good or a smile and a nod?

You can also ignore my other question in the Neopower or Seasonic thread now since I know the problems with the methodology.
 
I just got the OCZ Powerstream 520...the phantom is cool, but who knows how good it is yet, and the price premium is CRAZY!
 
Hey no probs ;)

I just rekon that more users prefer nice pics and general writing than 17 pages of (what is to many) techno-bable.

I appreciate that I need to do a little more to impress the regulars of the PSU forums lol!

I'll be perfectly honest and say that I was trying just as hard to bumb my site gamezuk.com a few hits (and maybe even users!) as I was to help out peeps interested in the Phantom 500 but it should work both ways and that's great.

I wasn't really looking for either approval or advice but thx anywayz.

----

As for not knowing enough about the Phantom 500 and so instead buying the OCZ Powerstream 520, may I recommend this excellent review I found: http://gamezuk.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=8 :cool: (sorry if it doesn't meet your definition of excellent)
 
GamezUK said:
Hey no probs ;)

I just rekon that more users prefer nice pics and general writing than 17 pages of (what is to many) techno-bable.

I appreciate that I need to do a little more to impress the regulars of the PSU forums lol!

I'll be perfectly honest and say that I was trying just as hard to bumb my site gamezuk.com a few hits (and maybe even users!) as I was to help out peeps interested in the Phantom 500 but it should work both ways and that's great.

I wasn't really looking for either approval or advice but thx anywayz.

----

As for not knowing enough about the Phantom 500 and so instead buying the OCZ Powerstream 520, may I recommend this excellent review I found: http://gamezuk.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=8 :cool: (sorry if it doesn't meet your definition of excellent)
Click to expand...
No one is trying to be hard in you or your site.
We have learned from long & expensive experence,
what can happen when PSU's are recommended without being throughly tested.

Dave ;)
 
davidhammock200 said:
No one is trying to be hard in you or your site.
We have learned from long & expensive experence,
what can happen when PSU's are recommended without being throughly tested.

Dave ;)
Click to expand...

QFT
 
testing on a static config is of limited value
if your reader has a rig close to it in total draw, and amps to rails ratio
and has source power close to yours in stability
and has a similar operating temperature, then its valuable provided you actually stress the PSU

but thats alot of qualifications that are lost on the average viewer
and stressing a PSU is something most reviewers dont fully understand
its not just the amount it can be loaded but how well it deals with a highly variable load
so from near capacity to next to nothing yet maintaining the rails within spec is actually a serious test but one that would likely elude measurement of software and even a cheap multimeter, throw in what a variable VAC adds to the equation and a supply that tests fine on your bench with stable power may fry several hundered dollars of components where the VAC isnt so stable.

as I said this is a good place to learn how to test PSUs
see we have a mission, to combat the ignorance of the buyer
and of the casual reviewer too :p
 
Firstly let me say that I agree with everything you've said (possibly bar me being ignorrant :p )

You see, I wrote the review to the level I did not becuase I do not understand such factors and limitations as have been brought up, but because IMHO the majority of users genuinely wanting to read a review of an Antec Phantom 500 will be more interested (and able to understand) the kinds of things I have written in my review and the info that is given in the review than the kind of heavy reading / pages of facts and figures that would get you guys excited enough to quote my review next-time you see a review like mine as "this is in-depth".

If it's the "in-depth" bit that got on your beaf then let me rephrase it as an "interesting review for someone considering the Phantom 500".

Perhaps if it had been an Antec TrueControl that I had been reviewing then I would have adjusted my methods and added a little more to satisfy all the salivating techies wanting a PSU with dead-steady rails no matter what you thew at it, in any system configuration ;)

In all honestly, as I said, the main purpose of having any testing at all was to see how well the Phantom's passive (and hybrid-fan) cooling could cope with the PSU under high-load.

So, you feeling the review yet? :rolleyes:

Anyway, Antec seemed pretty happy lol :)
 
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