Another example of not owning Adobe software you paid for.

M76

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I don't think Adobe even offers an option to buy their software outright anymore. To the best of my knowledge everything they offer is subscription based. Just a dishonest headline IMHO.

Canceling subscriptions is very different than say remotely deactivating CS6 and older users.
It matters not that you have a perpetual license or a subscription, the effect is exactly the same, your business is disrupted.
 

Youn

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GIMP actually got a lot better with the 2.10 version or around there. Trying to learn it again but it is a struggle sometimes.
try Paint.NET (for basics, it may be all you need) or Krita (for more advanced stuff)

https://www.getpaint.net/

https://krita.org/en/

in some ways I like these more than photoshop, and way easier to get into than GIMP which I always felt was designed by someone who never once used photoshop
 

Domingo

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Adobe has a lot of people by the balls. Myself (or at least my company), included. There are plenty of alternatives to their programs, but there's no suite that combines all of them together like they have. You can assemble a ramshackle group of programs that can do many of the same things, but they don't integrate at all.
 

Kardonxt

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It matters not that you have a perpetual license or a subscription, the effect is exactly the same, your business is disrupted.
Yes but, the thread title doesn't read, "Creative Professionals Disrupted Because Adobe Creative Cloud Subscriptions are Canceled."

There should be no shock that you don't "Own" something that you pay a monthly subscription fee to use.
 

M76

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Yes but, the thread title doesn't read, "Creative Professionals Disrupted Because Adobe Creative Cloud Subscriptions are Canceled."

There should be no shock that you don't "Own" something that you pay a monthly subscription fee to use.
Now you're being disingenuous, not all subscriptions are monthly and they are cancelling mid term, not at the end of a billing period hence the refunds.
 

M76

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try Paint.NET (for basics, it may be all you need) or Krita (for more advanced stuff)

https://www.getpaint.net/

https://krita.org/en/

in some ways I like these more than photoshop, and way easier to get into than GIMP which I always felt was designed by someone who never once used photoshop
GIMP is more like coreldraw, if anyone remembers that. At first I hated it, then I realized it can do things that photoshop couldn't, but there is a learning curve to it if you come from photoshop.
 

Kardonxt

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Now you're being disingenuous, not all subscriptions are monthly and they are cancelling mid term, not at the end of a billing period hence the refunds.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think believing that paying for some of your subscription in advance protects you from cancelation, or that you "own" the software for whatever period you rented access, is disingenuous, or maybe just delusional.
 

Staples

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GIMP is more like coreldraw, if anyone remembers that. At first I hated it, then I realized it can do things that photoshop couldn't, but there is a learning curve to it if you come from photoshop.
Speaking of Corel draw, there is currently a humble bundle where you can get some Corel creative software for cheap. Paint Shop Pro and Pinnacle Studio 23 for video. I've never used Painter but it is supposedly good (and expensive at retail). I am very tempted myself just because I love wasting tons of time tinkering with software (that I probably won't ever use much).

https://www.humblebundle.com/softwa...medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=tile_index_3
 

Youn

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they don't integrate at all.
I never understood this argument... why is integrating everything into one program or platform so important? is it like "I only buy apple products, nothing else works well with them" kinda thing? just curious what actual scenario makes it necessary or a huge time savings
 

Dan_D

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Not owning software is not a new thing. This has been the case for as long as I've been involved with them as a hobby, or professionally. Software, has almost always had a license agreement which you have to agree to in order to use it. I agree that this should only apply to government contracts in the foreign country, but the U.S. has very odd restrictions about exporting software and hardware. Technology of any kind basically falls under those laws and they do not always make sense.
 

Domingo

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I never understood this argument... why is integrating everything into one program or platform so important? is it like "I only buy apple products, nothing else works well with them" kinda thing? just curious what actual scenario makes it necessary or a huge time savings
It mainly comes down to the actual working files. You can utilize individual components and layers across the entire Adobe suite. From Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator, and the video platforms as well. Want to edit a single component in one of those programs? You can do that in a single click. You can use shared resources like art, font libraries, etc. across all programs and platforms, too.
 

Youn

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so I take it you found it useful and a reason to stick with adobe? care to share your experience?
 

M76

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I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think believing that paying for some of your subscription in advance protects you from cancelation, or that you "own" the software for whatever period you rented access, is disingenuous, or maybe just delusional.
Delusional, lol.That's just an ad hominem not an argument.

A subscription is a contract, if you cancel before the term is up, you're breaching that contract. If it was the other way around all companies charge you a hefty early cancellation fee.
 

Kardonxt

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Delusional, lol.That's just an ad hominem not an argument.

A subscription is a contract, if you cancel before the term is up, you're breaching that contract. If it was the other way around all companies charge you a hefty early cancellation fee.
I'm not arguing that Adobe didn't have an obligation to provide access to its paid for services (that the US government is preventing it from fulfilling). Just that this thread title is stupid because it was no secret that no one owns CCS other than Adobe.

Subscribers may have had a guarantee that they would have access to the software they paid to use. However, none of the affected users owned, or even should have believed they owned, the software.

If you really want to start talking contracts I'm pretty sure the EULA also states that you don't own the software.

(I canceled a customer's Acrobat Pro subscription last week and Adobe waived the cancelation fee when requested btw).
 

Revdarian

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I'm sure the two people who have genuine licenses will be crushed by this news.
This is dumb and offensive.

To reiterate
I AM Venezuelan, with Venezuelan family still in the country, not even one of them are "enchufados" aka in the government's pockets, this is affecting them, quite a few are graphics designers, they used to be able to do freelance through the internet for what is peanuts for most of you, but for the current country it was better than the average wage, so I know that graphics designers are affected first hand and they aren't the only ones, Adobe's online tools are the thing that's really hard to replace for them, they are indeed scrambling to find solutions. Besides graphics designers for sure the free press left is also affected widely, said free press also used the online tools specially with the required move to digital newspapers forced when the government started to deny paper to those that posted "conflicting" news. In a country that after the massive exodus should have a little under 30m its way more than just "two people".
 
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nilepez

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My guess is the refunds would be on Creative Cloud sub cards. Refunding that money, would be difficult, because they don't know what you paid for it. I've paid as little as 80 or 90 bucks for a year, but if they're not on sale, it's typically around 120 USD.
My guess is that the vast majority of subscribers pay 10 bucks a month, so if they cancel it for whatever reason, you're not out much, if anything.

Overall, I consider the Photography plan to be a much better deal than buying CS and having to pay 200 bucks every year or 2 to upgrade. If I'd bought CS back then, it'd have taken me at least 10 years for CC to cost more (longer if you adjust for inflation).
Where it sucks is for those that only use LR. LR was significantly cheaper than the photography plan.

That said, there are now plenty of other raw editors with perpetual licenses. I haven't used them, but On1 has one and I believe DXO has one (and maybe they have a version of NIK that edits RAW too).
 

dmdtobe

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This is one of the few instances where I would ask Captain Jack Sparrow for his advice. A notorious pirate like himself would never stand for such blasphemy.
 

SomeoneElse

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My guess is the refunds would be on Creative Cloud sub cards. Refunding that money, would be difficult, because they don't know what you paid for it. I've paid as little as 80 or 90 bucks for a year, but if they're not on sale, it's typically around 120 USD.
My guess is that the vast majority of subscribers pay 10 bucks a month, so if they cancel it for whatever reason, you're not out much, if anything.

Overall, I consider the Photography plan to be a much better deal than buying CS and having to pay 200 bucks every year or 2 to upgrade. If I'd bought CS back then, it'd have taken me at least 10 years for CC to cost more (longer if you adjust for inflation).
Where it sucks is for those that only use LR. LR was significantly cheaper than the photography plan.

That said, there are now plenty of other raw editors with perpetual licenses. I haven't used them, but On1 has one and I believe DXO has one (and maybe they have a version of NIK that edits RAW too).
The only argument against that and pretty much everyone knows that Adobe didn't really upgrade much with the new versions every year. The difference between the subscription is that you only get the software you subscribe to vs the CS suite is a bundle of software, which I understand is more expensive but you actually have it and don't have to pay every month to use it. 10 bucks for software a month in 12 months you paid 120 bucks for..... there are pros and cons and both sides....
 

Jandor

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I'm sorry. If you are professional and you use Adobe products and can't pay the price for it. You really need to reevaluate your business. Adobe products are cheap for their position in the industry. For photoshop ans lightroom I only pay $9.99 a month. If I can't make $10 a month for software that supports a major backbone of what I do, the failure is on me. Not the other way around.

Adobe products have their issues. So I'm not gonna just be on their side. But market price for their position is not one of them.
If you want to attack a software company for it's position and the fact that they have lacking support for their older products and don't sell them anymore, but you have to pay a monthly fee, it is Autodesk !
They rely on protected DWG files, on supporting one way BIM standards for their new products with no support between files from older products (if you don't update to latest Revit solution you won't be able to talk to those using it) and using the fact that some administrations in some countries force all the companies to use the BIM standards, which is something Autodesk may have promoted by the lobbying way.
And Autodesk software is ultra-expensive and is used to be more expensive every year. However it seems that some competition of, under legal attack by Autodesk, compatible software and use of mostly hacked Autodesk software even in building companies, made Autodesk to stop reaching higher prices this year.
However, in areas where used software can be sold, by law, Autodeks complies when Adobe seems to be reluctant to comply. There is every time a "good" reason for Adobe to refuse validation, for a software reinstallation or other kind of legal use and installation. Also Microsoft seems to follow Adobe and Autodesk interests by refusing validation or uninstallation at each major upgrade on the explanation that the software is not suppoed to be compatibles (when in fact it still is)...
So this is why I'm staying on Windows 7 and I may go the Linux way but will never use Windows 10 and it's inconsistent forced updates.
As a matter of fact, I found a great software that I may use on Linux, to replace Autocad and Revit, and that is called Bricscad BIM, which is part of a Swedish software Holding.
 

cybereality

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Well, yeah. If you use open source software and download a copy of the source, you can continue using that app forever under the original license no matter what happens.
 

Jandor

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Well, yeah. If you use open source software and download a copy of the source, you can continue using that app forever under the original license no matter what happens.
Paid software is okay (in fact Bricscad BIM is quite expensive). The problem is with the software company like Adobe or Autodesk saying they own the product and not you. Mind that Autodesk even says in its announcement that they may use your works on their cloud, and working with their product quite make you lose your rights on your own creation that they may own by the legal protection of the files made with their software, that in fact you lose your ownership on them and they even developed a software to replicate your work as an architect as "your way of building" which is disgusting. They promote working openly so that they could steal your work and avoid your ownership rights. But on the other hand they want you to pay for a 30 year old software not quite actualized for 5 years now apart from the files compatibility and Windows 10 support.
AEC suite costs 3000$ per year (5 times more than CC Suite) only works on 1 PC for one user. You can't split the suite. In France some administrations request you work on BIM solutions and they request your are compatible with the BIM files generated by Autodesk Revit. And this is all European Economics mandatory rules... and at every level Autodesk was present to promote their ways to the administration, against the building companies, architects and engineering, and all the real world economics regarding Buildings and Real Estate which is used to very low profit and has no budget for such things.

Mind that this BIM standards craze hasn't made its way yet into the US standards, probably because the administration is afraid of some professional so pissed he would rightfully take his gun and go shoot all those evil CEO plotting against common sense.
 
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nilepez

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The only argument against that and pretty much everyone knows that Adobe didn't really upgrade much with the new versions every year. The difference between the subscription is that you only get the software you subscribe to vs the CS suite is a bundle of software, which I understand is more expensive but you actually have it and don't have to pay every month to use it. 10 bucks for software a month in 12 months you paid 120 bucks for..... there are pros and cons and both sides....
Even every other year it'd take more than 10 years for it to pay off for Photoshop CS (I'm not basing this on the suite with every program under the sun, which, as I recall, cost $1000 or more). My calculation is that PS CS was roughly 500 bucks for a full copy. Upgrades every other year were about 200 bucks and that puts you have 1500 for 10 years, vs 1200 for the photography plan.

The more expensive plans are almost exclusively (if not exclusively) for businesses, which will write the entire thing off every year, vs depreciation over several years (unless the law changed and you can instantly deduct the entire thing). even those may be cheaper, but i don't know exactly what new full versions cost nor what htey changed for upgrades.
 

SomeoneElse

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Even every other year it'd take more than 10 years for it to pay off for Photoshop CS (I'm not basing this on the suite with every program under the sun, which, as I recall, cost $1000 or more). My calculation is that PS CS was roughly 500 bucks for a full copy. Upgrades every other year were about 200 bucks and that puts you have 1500 for 10 years, vs 1200 for the photography plan.

The more expensive plans are almost exclusively (if not exclusively) for businesses, which will write the entire thing off every year, vs depreciation over several years (unless the law changed and you can instantly deduct the entire thing). even those may be cheaper, but i don't know exactly what new full versions cost nor what htey changed for upgrades.
The difference is though you don't have to upgrade the software suite if you don't want to. There are alot of instances where they removed some features and added others over time some things disappear. The entire CS master collection costs 1500 back in the day i was able to get the illustrator suite for like 350$. which included PS, IL, DW, PDF creator, and a few other obscure apps. I thought it was pretty good but of course over time it would increase in price. Now its a perpetual price that never goes away.....I just like to have access to the software after i paid for it regardless if #1 I have internet and #2 if I am current with my payments.

I'm old school when i comes to software. They publish and sell it, i would like to pay for it and use it as i see fit.
 

Saturn_V

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Work pays for my CC subscription. But if I was self-employed I'd still pay for it and write it off as a business expense. CC is $53/month all apps, $600/annual prepaid, which in the grand scheme of things is small potatoes. And I've been very impressed with the changes they've made to Premiere since CS6. (getting rid of Title Manager was my favorite)
 

Domingo

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CC's pricing isn't that horrible. Especially if you get a student or business discount. Retail is roughly $650 per year for the full suite. Student pricing is $250 per year. My company's group rate (for only like 10 people) falls around the $400 range.
Back when we used to buy Creative Suite MC disks they were between $700-1000 depending on where in the lifespan of the product we bought 'em.
 

nilepez

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The difference is though you don't have to upgrade the software suite if you don't want to. There are alot of instances where they removed some features and added others over time some things disappear. The entire CS master collection costs 1500 back in the day i was able to get the illustrator suite for like 350$. which included PS, IL, DW, PDF creator, and a few other obscure apps. I thought it was pretty good but of course over time it would increase in price. Now its a perpetual price that never goes away.....I just like to have access to the software after i paid for it regardless if #1 I have internet and #2 if I am current with my payments.

I'm old school when i comes to software. They publish and sell it, i would like to pay for it and use it as i see fit.
I guess, but people i knew that were hobbyists upgraded every other year (normally skipping the .5 release). For the Master Suite, is it may be a worse deal (depends on upgrade prices), but I can imagine it being a worse deal, since it looks like 6k over 10 years and upgrading every other year is still less than 50/month for CC.
 

pillagenburn

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Welcome to the future. Where assets are liabilities, liabilities are mortgaged until well after you're dead and the only people that actually own anything are the ones that can figure out how to legalize their own criminality (globalists, corporatists, politicians and their apparatchiks)
 

Delicieuxz

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Not owning software is not a new thing. This has been the case for as long as I've been involved with them as a hobby, or professionally. Software, has almost always had a license agreement which you have to agree to in order to use it. I agree that this should only apply to government contracts in the foreign country, but the U.S. has very odd restrictions about exporting software and hardware. Technology of any kind basically falls under those laws and they do not always make sense.
You do actually own your software so long as it's sold via a perpetual license and not a subscription license. Have a license for something doesn't mean it isn't owned, and a license is ownership over certain rights. Property is also ownership over certain rights [1] [2] [3] [4]. So, they mean the same thing.

In the case of a software license, the ownership is over a right to use the software IP via an instance of it. That right to use is comprehensive and it equals a copy of the software.

You own your shoes, clothing, cars, computers, TVs, books, and movies, don't you? All of those things are licensed instances of an IP that is held by somebody else. With software, just with all those other things, you buy and own your copies of those things via a licensed instance of the IP. The copy belongs to you. Also, any non-transferable claims in an EULA are basically invalid. The EU's court has explicitly ruled such.

A lot more information on software ownership is here: https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...rwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/
 

Revdarian

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I am being informed by a close friend that the cancelation of her account has been rescinded according to an email from Adobe, apparently they don't have to cancel the Creative Cloud and Document cloud accounts of any and all Venezuelan nationals after all, who would have thought? (yes, the USA Government had to inform them again that the order was only against certain individuals linked to Maduro's regime).


edit:
This is no excuse to what they attempted to use, i would think thrice as much against investing on their cloud products going forward personally, they already showed that willingness to take the money and grant no service at the drop of a hat.
 
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Mazzspeed

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Yes, let's all go back to the 90's in basic software functionality. Linux Office apps are painful to use...

But I 100% agree with your sentiment.... that will be one vital component of reinventing the internet I think.
Funny, I think MS Office is painful to use...
 

dgz

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Adobe gets U.S. license to operate in Venezuela despite sanctions

Software developer Adobe Inc said on Monday it has received a U.S. license allowing it to keep providing its digital products like Photoshop and InDesign in Venezuela, which it was due to shut off because of Washington’s sanctions on the country.

Venezuelans said they were resorting to piracy after San Jose, California-based Adobe said it planned to halt access to its products to comply with sanctions.

“After discussions with the U.S. government, we’ve been granted a license to provide all of our Digital Media products and services in Venezuela,” wrote Chris Hall, Vice President and General Manager for Customer Experience, in a blog post.

“Users can continue to access the Creative Cloud and Document Cloud portfolio, and all of their content, as they did before.”
Source: Reuters
 
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