Another Death Reported at Foxconn China Plant

Notice the wording of the article...an employee has "fallen" to his death (not jumped) :p .

Also, two of the ten people survived? wha? Has anyone interviewed them? How high is this building anyway that anyone jumping off to kill themselves specifically could actually live?
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
I asked what do you do for a living? When peoples jobs in OUR Country are being shipped over seas we have a problem. How do you think that the economy works? When people aren't making the type of money that they used to or worst of all can't find work at all I know that I won't be doing much if any work for them. People are likely to put off that new air conditioner and without a doubt can't afford that new home.

If you think that this doesn't effect you then you must be living in your own little world.
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I dont live in your country so I have a different view on things, as China isnt taking away all our jobs, and if it was then its just joins a LONG list of other countries that the UK imports its 90% + of products from.

Your jobs are going overseas for one simple reason, its cheaper to do business like that, every other country on the planet does the same, companies are entitled to do so, and if they end up taking business away from your people, then make your feelings known to the company, go militant my brother.

After the recession nearly every country on earth is in a shit position financially and in order for some companies to keep trading, extreme measures have to be taken and if that means outsourcing to whatever third world country just to keep the company afloat then so be it, or if its jsut to get a good deal and save millions then so be it also.

You try owning a business and then get hit hard financially and find out that your only way of surviving is outsourcing to china etc, do you A, out source or B, go insolvent because you didnt want to put your own people out of a job whilst giving it to some other country, and would rather you all go down instead ?

So tell me exactly, how does doing trade with china affect me for the worst ? you think everything in the world has to have a Made in the USA stamp on it ?

China isnt taking all of scotlands jobs, so in effect it isnt affecting me, I dont think of it, I dont dream of it, it simply doesnt even bother me because what is happening in the states isnt happening to any great degree in scotland, thus it doesnt affect me.

Now before you say it affects everyone, we all know that trade affects everyone to some degree, but its not something you sit awake at night thinking about unless you are about to be out of a job because of it, but the point being that, until you see jobs go and places close down etc and know that they are going to X country, you just dont think about it, thus it doesnt affect ya.

Their is minimal unemployment where I am and a vast number of oil jobs, the chinese dont even come into mine and our thinking because at this moment in time they dont affect us and until they do it will remain like that, also alot of stuff bought nowadays is from foreign companies i.e sony etc, so in the end who gives a shit where stuff comes from as long as you can get it when you want.

Also, what I do for a living is none of your business.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
No, it's because Foxconn (everyone really) would rather pay someone in China $2 an hour than pay a fair living wage anywhere else. What do they plan on doing when half of their consumers can no longer afford their ipods since they can't find work?
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Please provide some sources that demonstrate what Foxconn workers earn and what that level of income will actually buy there. That matters you know.

And seriously, I had a decade long career with one of the best companies I've worked for ended because my job went overseas. Heck, I trained them.. But they were earning more like $12/hr and not $2.
 
Ronbo said:
Those of you who think those foxconn employees can quit should do a little research. The plant where this is occuring is almost like a concentration camp, they are virtually locked in the compound from what I've read
http://erictric.com/2010/05/19/work...ctory-exposed-by-chinese-undercover-reporter/

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-shocking-conditions-inside-chinas-brutal-foxconn-factory-2010-5
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I read your links. I see nothing that would indicate anything close to a concentration camp where employees are locked in a compound.
 
brentsg said:
Please provide some sources that demonstrate what Foxconn workers earn and what that level of income will actually buy there. That matters you know.
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There is a link floating around on XS in the news section from not too long ago with a lot of info about the working conditions at Foxconn. I don't feel like looking for the thread. It's not exactly pleasant over there.

And seriously, I had a decade long career with one of the best companies I've worked for ended because my job went overseas. Heck, I trained them.. But they were earning more like $12/hr and not $2.
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That sucks but I'm sure thats still quite a bit less than they were paying over here.
 
dnottis said:
All because Apple is too greedy to manufacture anything here. Sad.
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Greedy, is it? So then all American companies who produce electronics overseas must be greedy too. It's all about the cost.

I know a guy who started a T shirt business. He has always had his shirts made overseas, never in his own country. He says he wouldn't be in business if he had shirts made in America because of the cost.

And it's not Apple's fault...Foxconn owns the factory, it's their problem. If this was Microsoft, everyone would say it's Microsoft's fault. As much as I hate Apple, it isn't their fault that Foxconn runs a slave shop. Who cares if Apple is provoking it by having all their products made there? What do you think Nike does? Nike owns their manufacturers BTW. Problems with labor and work conditions are therefore Nike's problem.
 
brentsg said:
Please provide some sources that demonstrate what Foxconn workers earn and what that level of income will actually buy there. That matters you know.

And seriously, I had a decade long career with one of the best companies I've worked for ended because my job went overseas. Heck, I trained them.. But they were earning more like $12/hr and not $2.
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BababooeyHTJ said:
There is a link floating around on XS in the news section from not too long ago with a lot of info about the working conditions at Foxconn. I don't feel like looking for the thread. It's not exactly pleasant over there.



That sucks but I'm sure thats still quite a bit less than they were paying over here.
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I think there's an article floating around [H] about that. Workers made what equated to a few hundred dollars a month. They would stand and build products for 8 hours or more a day, sleep, then go back at it. Most workers don't know the names of people around them, apparently there's thousands if not hundreds of thousands of employees there. The cafeteria is huge. Overall the place actually looked pretty clean in the pictures. The article went on to say a bunch of other things, but apparently a lot of people disagreed and called bullshit on it since the article appeared to be over hyped and made conditions sound worse than they were.
 
Apple products are good enough to die for?
ok ok, that was just really bad.
Foxconn is gonna try to spin this off as unrelated to working conditions. I wonder how many incidents go without notice?

AGH!!!! this keyboard sucks, sorry for double post.
 
I'm not the biggest Apple fan, but you guys are acting like Apple is Foxconn's only customer.

For those who don't know, Foxconn is the largest manufacturer of electronics in the entire world.

Among other things, Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod, the iPad, and the iPhone for Apple Inc.; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer manufacturers Dell and Hewlett-Packard; motherboards for UK computer manufacturer Zoostorm; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo; the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, the Amazon Kindle, and Cisco equipment.[2][3][4][5]
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They liquify the dead workers and feed them intravenously to the remaining workers.
 
5 suicides what the heck, I wonder if they are really suicides.
 
EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
After the recession nearly every country on earth is in a shit position financially and in order for some companies to keep trading, extreme measures have to be taken and if that means outsourcing to whatever third world country just to keep the company afloat then so be it, or if its jsut to get a good deal and save millions then so be it also.

You try owning a business and then get hit hard financially and find out that your only way of surviving is outsourcing to china etc, do you A, out source or B, go insolvent because you didnt want to put your own people out of a job whilst giving it to some other country, and would rather you all go down instead ?
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Except that isn't the timeline of the way everything happened. The companies didn't get hit hard financially and THEN start outsourcing. What happened is companies were flying high before the mortgage collapse, then they said 'We can make even more if we don't actually employ anybody in America except the CEO (and then we'll give him 5-600 million depending on the company)' They downsized, those people couldn't afford their homes anymore so they defaulted, and as a result we enter a recession. In the constant hunt to make even more they shot themselves in the foot, and the sad thing is they don't even realize it. They think 'this'll blow over, and then we can continue to find even more jobs to oursource' and that it'll never come back to bite them as a result.
 
What I do not understand is how this hasn't caught more mainstream media's attention here in the states. I would have thought this would be all over the news by now, i.e. CNN NBC Nightly News, ABC World News, etc.
 
I dunno, I am having trouble finding employment and did pretty much all the right things through college to be a focused and well qualified individual, and people/things are to blame for this shoulder shrugging crappy situation i'm in (since in any other area I'd have a good job and then some, especially based on what I see from the more seasoned level people working in my industry and where they were at talent/qualifications wise when they started, which is almost lazy in comparison to what I've done).

But my point is that I don't really see any jobs in what I want to do migrating to China, as I don't really work in manufacturing......and....well....that's pretty much it isn't it? I am not looking to work in a process line or manufacturing labor job so I feel rather safe in that regard.....however, it DOES seem like a lot of jobs are just dissapearing into no where :p , and well, that blame does lie somewhere :p .
 
brentsg said:
Ok starting now, stop buying any products made in China. Oh and good luck!
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Yes, because clearly I said "stop buying china" as a whole right? Point that out to me from my post. Notice the following line, which you missed due to selective reading:

I have not been perfect in this regard but I have been changing my ways over the last few years, voting with my dollar to companies who cares in the way it provides it's services and/or products.
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I'll give you an example even. Here in Canada we have an Ogliopoly when it comes to our telephony, internet and cable (Wireless has changed a bit for a few areas due to the recent wireless auction and launch of new companies). People have long been complaining, there is nothing we can do, yada yada yada. These big companies claim to be Canadian, which by definition they are but they continue to outsource tech support to India. Nothing against Indians, I have a couple Indian friends myself but some of these people they have speak in such a hard dialect that it's difficult for most people to even understand them. On top of this, they have been charging more for the services while reducing service features and actively invading privacy, also discriminating against use of service (re: throttle).

My point is, there are other, smaller companies, though while bound by a lot of restrictions of the ogliopoly's wholesale terms, stand out by providing a cheaper service, provide Canadian technical support (re: jobs!) and actually value the customer's business and feedback. But yet some people sit there with inaction, because the company "is too small, will never really compete with the big guys, they have growing pains, I need 100% constant on".

That is what I have changed over recent years, amongst other things because I know while it's a small action, it's something. I don't just talk out of my arse -- I do.


Anyway, before veering off topic too much, this is primarily about Foxconn. I personally will try my best to avoid any of their products. I don't own/buy any Apple products so it will be easier for me to avoid than for others, I guess but it's just a matter of willpower.
 
Term-X said:
Yes, because clearly I said "stop buying china" as a whole right? Point that out to me from my post. Notice the following line, which you missed due to selective reading:



I'll give you an example even. Here in Canada we have an Ogliopoly when it comes to our telephony, internet and cable (Wireless has changed a bit for a few areas due to the recent wireless auction and launch of new companies). People have long been complaining, there is nothing we can do, yada yada yada. These big companies claim to be Canadian, which by definition they are but they continue to outsource tech support to India. Nothing against Indians, I have a couple Indian friends myself but some of these people they have speak in such a hard dialect that it's difficult for most people to even understand them. On top of this, they have been charging more for the services while reducing service features and actively invading privacy, also discriminating against use of service (re: throttle).

My point is, there are other, smaller companies, though while bound by a lot of restrictions of the ogliopoly's wholesale terms, stand out by providing a cheaper service, provide Canadian technical support (re: jobs!) and actually value the customer's business and feedback. But yet some people sit there with inaction, because the company "is too small, will never really compete with the big guys, they have growing pains, I need 100% constant on".

That is what I have changed over recent years, amongst other things because I know while it's a small action, it's something. I don't just talk out of my arse -- I do.


Anyway, before veering off topic too much, this is primarily about Foxconn. I personally will try my best to avoid any of their products. I don't own/buy any Apple products so it will be easier for me to avoid than for others, I guess but it's just a matter of willpower.
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BTW its Oligopoly.
 
Term-X said:
Yes, because clearly I said "stop buying china" as a whole right? Point that out to me from my post. Notice the following line, which you missed due to selective reading:



I'll give you an example even. Here in Canada we have an Ogliopoly when it comes to our telephony, internet and cable (Wireless has changed a bit for a few areas due to the recent wireless auction and launch of new companies). People have long been complaining, there is nothing we can do, yada yada yada. These big companies claim to be Canadian, which by definition they are but they continue to outsource tech support to India. Nothing against Indians, I have a couple Indian friends myself but some of these people they have speak in such a hard dialect that it's difficult for most people to even understand them. On top of this, they have been charging more for the services while reducing service features and actively invading privacy, also discriminating against use of service (re: throttle).

My point is, there are other, smaller companies, though while bound by a lot of restrictions of the ogliopoly's wholesale terms, stand out by providing a cheaper service, provide Canadian technical support (re: jobs!) and actually value the customer's business and feedback. But yet some people sit there with inaction, because the company "is too small, will never really compete with the big guys, they have growing pains, I need 100% constant on".

That is what I have changed over recent years, amongst other things because I know while it's a small action, it's something. I don't just talk out of my arse -- I do.


Anyway, before veering off topic too much, this is primarily about Foxconn. I personally will try my best to avoid any of their products. I don't own/buy any Apple products so it will be easier for me to avoid than for others, I guess but it's just a matter of willpower.
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If you're buying electronics you are buying Foxconn. Foxconn is the single largest electronics manufacture in the world. They have stuff in almost every single piece of electronics you can buy.
 
shuang said:
Shit what's going on there? I feel ashamed for being Chinese.
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Well...there is still an endless supply of chineese workers to take the spot. I guess individuals don't matter much over there.
 
Stoly said:
BTW its Oligopoly.
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Yea, thanks. I usually misspell for whatever reason.

Anyway.

Derangel - I am sure they do but I highly doubt it's in every piece of electronics. If you could name anything in my sig that has parts from Foxconn that I am unaware of, I'd be interested to know.
 
Ashbringer said:
Steve jobs would be walking around the factory with a whip. But seriously, why haven't they just made these products here? It's not like there isn't a problem with the economy with jobs and stuff.
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Because then they would have to take less profit or start charging even more outrageous prices for their crap.

And they would probably eventually become unionized and end up going out of business because the union(s) would want every union employee to get paid at least $70k a year + benefits .. even if they were just a desk clerk.

Toyota closed a plant in CA in order to get rid of union workers.

Continental closed the plant here in Huntsville because the union sucked them dry.. and other issues like management.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Keep shopping at Walmart guys. This didn't happen over night.
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The problem is, Walmart didn't used to be that way. Sam Walton went out of his way to find American made products and was still selling cheaper than his competitors. Sad story, what happened to that place after he died.

Most people got hooked early. The average American budget is stretched pretty thin. You can't fault people for saving money where they can. That said, I would much rather buy Indian made products than Chinese. These countries aren't anywhere we weren't 100 years ago. It's a shame that labor became so expensive in this country. It's also a shame that governments of these countries don't do more to promote worker rights.

We live in a world where if your company doesn't make more than it did the year before, your considered failing. It doesn't matter that you made 10 billion this year. It only matters that you made 12 billion the year before. Private business is what got us through the industrial revolution. Powered by an army of immigrants that most of us are descendant from. The only difference being, that their hard work went directly to their wallets.

It's pretty hard to be a small business owner in this country and be profitable anymore. I manage to make enough to keep my family fed. I have never owned a foreign car. To my detriment I suppose. I walked a lot in the late 80's early 90's..:D
 
In another, older thread about the Foxconn suicides, someone said that it was statistically insignificant since Foxconn employed such a huge number of people, and that the actual suicide rate was below the chinese average. Not sure if that's true though, just putting it out there.
 
I have some numbers because I saw this on Chinese news (CCTV) and they were reporting about it. These are the facts:

- 400 000 Foxconn employees at the Shenzhen plant
- turnover is about 20 000 every month
- monthly wage something to the effect of $134 USD per month (I believe that is with the overtime)
- many suicides are committed from a (IIRC) 5-6 floor residential building that houses the workers
- workers actually say that the suicides don't impact their wanting to work there
- they're supposedly entitled to 2 10-minute breaks during the day, but sometimes when things get busy, management takes away those breaks
- Foxconn has said that they've tried to resolve the problem and are continuously working to do so on public television (whether or not you believe them is another matter)

There is a link for this on the Internet and it has been translated in English by someone. I saw it a few days ago but don't remember what I was looking for when I happened to stumble on that news (approximately 20 minutes of Chinese news coverage).
 
Oh, and additionally, the news source claims that older generation of workers are more resilient, more family-oriented, and more willing to take on the hardships, whereas newer generation of workers is better educated, is inspired by more dreams and goals, and has less ability to take on the same hardships. They conclude that Foxconn will have to make many changes to adapt to the new generation of Chinese workers.
 
BallerX said:
These countries aren't anywhere we weren't 100 years ago.
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Gee...and it only took them 2000 years to get there. I guess it will take another 1500 years for us to get where they are.
 
Don't worry, China is on an influencial member of the board of human rights at the UN now.

Nothing to worry about here.
 
One more death today... a 19 years old worker jumped down from a building at 6:20am on 25 May 2010. He has been working at Foxconn for only 42 days.

What is wrong???!!!
 
Cyrilix said:
Oh, and additionally, the news source claims that older generation of workers are more resilient, more family-oriented, and more willing to take on the hardships, whereas newer generation of workers is better educated, is inspired by more dreams and goals, and has less ability to take on the same hardships. They conclude that Foxconn will have to make many changes to adapt to the new generation of Chinese workers.
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Of note, this is the third generation of "one-child" families, which means that an average 18 year old has two parents and four grandparents all focused on the success of one child That's a lot of support, including financial, and like most cultures, the family wants the latest generation to have it better than they did. The government realizes this and is greatly expanding the post-high school education opportunities across the country. Taiwan, who supplies most of the engineers and management to the Chinese factories, better take care for those positions.
 
Rucker61 said:
Of note, this is the third generation of "one-child" families, which means that an average 18 year old has two parents and four grandparents all focused on the success of one child That's a lot of support, including financial, and like most cultures, the family wants the latest generation to have it better than they did. The government realizes this and is greatly expanding the post-high school education opportunities across the country. Taiwan, who supplies most of the engineers and management to the Chinese factories, better take care for those positions.
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I've always wondered how that is enforce or whether it is enforced because I know a lot of relatives with multiple offspring
 
On the 1 child policy - most places if you have more children you have to pay a fine each time you have another child. The 2 places this apparently isn't happening are Shanghai - but the parents must be only children; and Beijing, though from this article that's debatable.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1912861,00.html

Now the Foxconn thing. Something is going on there, HAS to be. I don't know how many of you have comcast, but it even made their news:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-technology/20100524/AS.China.Foxconn.Deaths/http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-technology/20100524/AS.China.Foxconn.Deaths/

In part:

Labor activists say the string of suicides back up their long-standing allegations that workers toil in terrible conditions at Foxconn. They claim shifts are long, the assembly line moves too fast and managers enforce military-style discipline on the work force.

In Hong Kong on Tuesday, about a dozen labor activists protested at Foxconn offices in the Chinese territory. They held signs that said, "Foxconn lacks a conscience" and "Suicide is no accident." The protesters from the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions burned cardboard cutouts resembling iPhones.
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That the latest suicide was only 19 years old and had only worked there 42 days, you have to know something just isn't right.
 
This is a serious problem that can't be fully described on a forum.

Capitalism, Globalization, and Diversity have been the propaganda tools to create this problem and nothing can be done to stop it without destroying the entire status quo of business and government around the world.

Tragic outcome of our species when we have the means for so much better, if not for the status quo.
 
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