Another Daylight Saving Time Bug Strikes Apple

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
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Another time change approaching, another Apple DST bug. This marks the third instance within four years Apple has had to deal with a problem concerning the change of time around the scheduled fall back of Daylight Saving Time.

Time zone support is a recurring issue for Apple's software and operating systems.
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What will it take to get rid of it? An Executive order?

I'm actually impressed by how everybody actually remembers to turn their clocks. It's so fucking pointless.
 
Megalith said:
What will it take to get rid of it? An Executive order?

I'm actually impressed by how everybody actually remembers to turn their clocks. It's so fucking pointless.
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Would take an act of Congress. Which while in theory easy enough, will never happen. Just like the USA going to the metric system.

Tankerton said:
Because you can find no use for more daylight hours? :rolleyes:
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As someone else said. There are no "more daylight hours" than before. The only question is if they are before or after the workday...and between ST and DST it ends up being a wash. And resetting our clocks is the pinnacle of pointlessness for an industrial society.

Between modern electric lighting and street lights it isn't like it matters that much what time is assigned to be sunrise and sunset.
 
DST should just be called "daylight shifting time" since that's all it does, shift the time. It would be more sane to leave the clocks alone and adjust schedules accordingly. Unfortunately, a lot of businesses/jobs would have issue with that.
 
What is so difficult about changing the time by 1 hour? I never understood everyone's hate towards it since it is so damn simple.
 
xIronCrossx said:
What is so difficult about changing the time by 1 hour? I never understood everyone's hate towards it since it is so damn simple.
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You never had to change the the clock on a VCR without throwing a circuit breaker, did you?
 
Not a fan of DST either especially when it comes to things like log files and analysis. I'd rather just simplify life and set all equipment that generate logs to UTC.
 
BladeVenom said:
The amount of daylight hours stays the same.

People should change their schedules, not the time.
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Good idea! I will just tell Best Buy not to mind me stopping by an hour early or after they close to do a little shopping.

It is not about the amount of hours in a day. It is about making the most out of available daylight and reducing the need for power consumption. Although, I agree the latter is a bit obsolete unless you live in California.
 
The time change is stupid. Leave us with the longest hours available during the day and be done with it. Cutting us down on daylight hours doesn't cut down on emissions on a macro scale like our stupid government thinks it does.
 
eth3ton said:
Good idea! I will just tell Best Buy not to mind me stopping by an hour early or after they close to do a little shopping.

It is not about the amount of hours in a day. It is about making the most out of available daylight and reducing the need for power consumption. Although, I agree the latter is a bit obsolete unless you live in California.
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It has been shown repeatedly that DST makes nearly zero difference in energy consumption. Further what is "making the most of available daylight"? Very few people today need daylight to get anything done. With everywhere having electricity and electric lighting, there's very few work areas or activities that are sensitive to needing daylight.
 
Skripka said:
You never had to change the the clock on a VCR without throwing a circuit breaker, did you?
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Oh, I didn't know we still live in the 20th century or that VCR's were so important that the time needed changing. Ever heard of a simple Analog clock?
 
eth3ton said:
Good idea! I will just tell Best Buy not to mind me stopping by an hour early or after they close to do a little shopping.

It is not about the amount of hours in a day. It is about making the most out of available daylight and reducing the need for power consumption. Although, I agree the latter is a bit obsolete unless you live in California.
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lol, what?

DST was about adjusting the time for people who didn't have lighting to get their work done within the same hours. Specifically, farmers and such back when lighting wasn't even available.

It has no place in modern times, and the people who still rely on daylight can shift their work hours instead of everyone having to change their clocks. Power consumption... lol. Wow. You make it sound like Al Gore invented it.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Oh, I didn't know we still live in the 20th century or that VCR's were so important that the time needed changing. Ever heard of a simple Analog clock?
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Ever been in a room where the "simple analog clock" required calling building maintenance and a ladder to get at? Is it a "big deal"? Only insofar as screwing around with your brain and body clock. But all for what exactly? DST gets us nada. Nothing. Zero. Zip. It is without point or need today.

It doesn't save energy. It doesn't really influence productivity...it is a hassle without cause or need. Kind of like Windows 8 ;)
 
Anyone remember a couple of years ago when the DST standard changed? What a clusterF in effort changing firmware, OS patches, configurations, etc. with really no benefit in return.
 
It's the Y2K all over again. The world is going to end for about 10% of computer out there!
 
All DST is any good for any more is making sure kids have daylight as they walk home from school.
But then again, forced DST keeps it even for everyone.
If we just changed the schedules there would be certain assholes out there that kept their hours the same and it would throw off the people with kids in school.
 
SGA76 said:
All DST is any good for any more is making sure kids have daylight as they walk home from school.
But then again, forced DST keeps it even for everyone.
If we just changed the schedules there would be certain assholes out there that kept their hours the same and it would throw off the people with kids in school.
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Making sure there is daylight as kids walk home from school? At what, 3-4pm? That wouldn't be an issue without DST unless you live so far north where it gets dark that early, and you'd be better off with the schedule just changing anyway.
 
Merc1138 said:
Making sure there is daylight as kids walk home from school? At what, 3-4pm? That wouldn't be an issue without DST unless you live so far north where it gets dark that early, and you'd be better off with the schedule just changing anyway.
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I live in a rural community and it gets dark as early as 5pm here.
Long roads, no sidewalks, a lot of latch key kids walk home and a lot of parents work past 5pm.
I have no children of my own but have had this discussion with friends who have kids.
Just because it doesn't effect you and would make your life easier doesn't mean its better for everyone.
So your solution would be?
Have the parent/ parents on welfare because their bosses wouldn't let them off of work early enough to make sure the kids could get home?
Still have DST in Canada and northern states?
increase taxes in rural communities to add sidewalks, stop lights, crossing guards for the kids?
Reduce hitting a child with your car from second degree murder or manslaughter to a $50 fine?

I'd really like to know.
 
I honestly think Apple just learning to code their shit better eliminates the problem.
Surprise!
Fixes the problem then doesn't it?
Then again, why should a big company that ships all their jobs overseas and dodges US taxes fix their code for products they sell here in the US?
 
SGA76 said:
I live in a rural community and it gets dark as early as 5pm here.
Long roads, no sidewalks, a lot of latch key kids walk home and a lot of parents work past 5pm.
I have no children of my own but have had this discussion with friends who have kids.
Just because it doesn't effect you and would make your life easier doesn't mean its better for everyone.
So your solution would be?
Have the parent/ parents on welfare because their bosses wouldn't let them off of work early enough to make sure the kids could get home?
Still have DST in Canada and northern states?
increase taxes in rural communities to add sidewalks, stop lights, crossing guards for the kids?
Reduce hitting a child with your car from second degree murder or manslaughter to a $50 fine?

I'd really like to know.
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First, it makes no difference if it's getting dark at 5pm or 6 pm to the parents of the latch key kids. They're still at home unsupervised.

Second, I'm still confused as to what getting dark at 5pm has to do with kids going from from school at 3-4pm. Being a latch key kid doesn't matter here either.

Third, What does hitting a kid with a car have to do with DST or getting dark at 5pm? Oh wait, nothing.

Fourth, the parents wouldn't need to go on welfare, since the kids are already latch key kids anyway, so why would they need to quit their jobs and go on welfare because it starts to get dark at 5pm?

I addressed your comments out of order, but that doesn't matter since none of your "points" had anything to do with DST other than pointing out that it starts to get dark at 5pm, which is something I already pointed out. What you did do was post a bunch of nonsense about 5pm, when I haven't heard of any k-12 school that has a schedule ending their day at 5pm, and a bunch of nonsense about latch key kids that wouldn't change whether or not DST existed anyway.

So no, you don't need DST.
 
eth3ton said:
It is about making the most out of available daylight and reducing the need for power consumption. Although, I agree the latter is a bit obsolete unless you live in California.
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What?

How is making the evening dark, when everyone is awake, reducing power consumption? In California or anywhere?
 
Merc1138 said:
First, it makes no difference if it's getting dark at 5pm or 6 pm to the parents of the latch key kids. They're still at home unsupervised.

Second, I'm still confused as to what getting dark at 5pm has to do with kids going from from school at 3-4pm. Being a latch key kid doesn't matter here either.

Third, What does hitting a kid with a car have to do with DST or getting dark at 5pm? Oh wait, nothing.

Fourth, the parents wouldn't need to go on welfare, since the kids are already latch key kids anyway, so why would they need to quit their jobs and go on welfare because it starts to get dark at 5pm?

I addressed your comments out of order, but that doesn't matter since none of your "points" had anything to do with DST other than pointing out that it starts to get dark at 5pm, which is something I already pointed out. What you did do was post a bunch of nonsense about 5pm, when I haven't heard of any k-12 school that has a schedule ending their day at 5pm, and a bunch of nonsense about latch key kids that wouldn't change whether or not DST existed anyway.

So no, you don't need DST.
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1. if the children are getting released from school at 3:30pm and its getting dark at 5 before DST then at 4pm its getting dark which isn't enough daylight for all children walking to reach home safely.
2. school buses have a 3 mile out point here, anything under 3 miles your kid walks or you drop them off, most children that live a longer distance would in fact be walking in the dark. grant it, its not many, but there still are those that would.
3. without DST, again, it would be getting dark closer to 4pm, with a 3:30 release time those living at the edge of 3 miles (kids walk around 2-2.5 mph) would not be making it home until roughly 5pm which would give them at east a half an hour walking home on roads without sidewalks in the winter, which in most cases puts said children on the road itself instead of trying to wade through snow drifts. god only knows as a kid half my walk to and from school there were no sidewalks and I had to walk through a snow drift or on the road.
4. if the child had to walk home in the dark, then a parent would have to pick them up from school to make it home safely. most remaining jobs around here have little to no flexibility because unemployment is so high from jobs being shipped out of state workers are a dime a dozen. they don't care if you have children, need to be there to pick up your kids or drop them off, if you can't be there when they want and that can be subject to change at a moment's notice you're gone.

its not nonsense, and just because it doesn't effect you or you don't live in a community it would effect you make my points nonsense just because you disagree. things don't change easy when there's not a point or benefit to the change.
 
xIronCrossx said:
What is so difficult about changing the time by 1 hour? I never understood everyone's hate towards it since it is so damn simple.
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It is not about changing the clocks, it is about shifting your internal clock back or forward every 6 months. It usually takes few weeks not to feel tired or not to wake up too soon.
 
SGA76 said:
I honestly think Apple just learning to code their shit better eliminates the problem.
Surprise!
Fixes the problem then doesn't it?
Then again, why should a big company that ships all their jobs overseas and dodges US taxes fix their code for products they sell here in the US?
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Yeah I never understood why there could be such issues with DST and software.

Changes to DST, just changes time, you would think this would be a simple change.

Yet...

Exchange admins had a rough time with the last major change in the system. From what I saw scripts to modify all users calendars etc. A friend was complaining about it constantly that year. Confused the daylights out of my, why did a users calendar have to change, the meeting would be at the same day and "time" on the clock. wtf
 
why not just move every time zone over 30 min and never have DST ever again
 
SGA76 said:
1. if the children are getting released from school at 3:30pm and its getting dark at 5 before DST then at 4pm its getting dark which isn't enough daylight for all children walking to reach home safely.
2. school buses have a 3 mile out point here, anything under 3 miles your kid walks or you drop them off, most children that live a longer distance would in fact be walking in the dark. grant it, its not many, but there still are those that would.
3. without DST, again, it would be getting dark closer to 4pm, with a 3:30 release time those living at the edge of 3 miles (kids walk around 2-2.5 mph) would not be making it home until roughly 5pm which would give them at east a half an hour walking home on roads without sidewalks in the winter, which in most cases puts said children on the road itself instead of trying to wade through snow drifts. god only knows as a kid half my walk to and from school there were no sidewalks and I had to walk through a snow drift or on the road.
4. if the child had to walk home in the dark, then a parent would have to pick them up from school to make it home safely. most remaining jobs around here have little to no flexibility because unemployment is so high from jobs being shipped out of state workers are a dime a dozen. they don't care if you have children, need to be there to pick up your kids or drop them off, if you can't be there when they want and that can be subject to change at a moment's notice you're gone.

its not nonsense, and just because it doesn't effect you or you don't live in a community it would effect you make my points nonsense just because you disagree. things don't change easy when there's not a point or benefit to the change.
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Hoss, think about what you're saying for a minute. Because your argument doesn't back your position

Thanks to time shifting off DST those kids will STILL be walking home in the dark next week. AAMOF, DST's only benefit in this department only exists at the beginning and end of the K12 school year in the USA. Without DST today, the Sun would set at around 5PM depending on lattitude, just like next week when DST ceases the sun will set at ~5PM.

Those kids walk home in the dark ANYWAY, depending on what time of year it is. Further even out here in the boonies no one is walking home from bus stops. Helicopter parents 99% of the time drive their perfect angels the 3 blocks to and from school here in the midwest.
 
SGA76 said:
1. if the children are getting released from school at 3:30pm and its getting dark at 5 before DST then at 4pm its getting dark which isn't enough daylight for all children walking to reach home safely.
2. school buses have a 3 mile out point here, anything under 3 miles your kid walks or you drop them off, most children that live a longer distance would in fact be walking in the dark. grant it, its not many, but there still are those that would.
3. without DST, again, it would be getting dark closer to 4pm, with a 3:30 release time those living at the edge of 3 miles (kids walk around 2-2.5 mph) would not be making it home until roughly 5pm which would give them at east a half an hour walking home on roads without sidewalks in the winter, which in most cases puts said children on the road itself instead of trying to wade through snow drifts. god only knows as a kid half my walk to and from school there were no sidewalks and I had to walk through a snow drift or on the road.
4. if the child had to walk home in the dark, then a parent would have to pick them up from school to make it home safely. most remaining jobs around here have little to no flexibility because unemployment is so high from jobs being shipped out of state workers are a dime a dozen. they don't care if you have children, need to be there to pick up your kids or drop them off, if you can't be there when they want and that can be subject to change at a moment's notice you're gone.

its not nonsense, and just because it doesn't effect you or you don't live in a community it would effect you make my points nonsense just because you disagree. things don't change easy when there's not a point or benefit to the change.
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So much text when you apparently don't realize two things:

We are not switching to DST now, we are switching to standard time.
Standard time is going to make it darker earlier in the evening.
 
eth3ton said:
Good idea! I will just tell Best Buy not to mind me stopping by an hour early or after they close to do a little shopping.

It is not about the amount of hours in a day. It is about making the most out of available daylight and reducing the need for power consumption. Although, I agree the latter is a bit obsolete unless you live in California.
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No its the perception that people stay out later spending money in various ways when there's daylight. This is based off probably the North where the extra daylight is associated with increased getting out of the house which is more because it isn't cold or depressingly gray than extra daylight.

Someone thought we would legislate people into opening their wallets more when they extended daylight savings time.
 
I will say DST helps keep people out later when there are safety concerns depending where you live.
 
We're supposed to be making fun of Apple in this thread not each other, get with the program. :p
 
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