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...and I'm a PC

I'm not a "platform fanatic" I use whatever platform best suits my needs based on the actual benefits of that platform, I use linux at work for any servers that require long up time and tight security such as our firewall, I use a PC as my own gaming computer because it's the best overall platform for gaming and general day to day use. Macs do have their benefit, primarily ease of use, and that's not something I need (at least to that degree), I dont bash macs for it, they fill a market segment and that does nothing but make my life as a systems administrator easier because those same people trying to use PCs would just be a nightmare...

That does nothing to alter the fact that macs marketing is transparent rubbish, obvious to almost everyone except mac owners :)

Yes the portal ARG was brilliant, a brilliant piece of marketing that is. The fact that everyone was chattering about it and telling each other was a fantastic way to increase overall public perception of the game just in time for them to start market it's sequel (presumably). Some people see it purely as fun, and I don't refute that it was...I just see it as a manipulation by people that have an agenda.

You know, I don't argue that some of Apple's marketing is crap at all, especially the Mac vs PC stuff (so much idiotic FUD). The thing is that I don't pay attention to it so it doesn't get under my skin. I don't really watch TV and otherwise I tune it out, as I tune out anything else I don't enjoy. Its no big deal. My only issue, and its a big issue, is people associating all Mac users as sheeple that are duped by silly advertising. No, it can't possibly have anything to do with the fact that they actually make some really good products. :rolleyes:

Again, its incredibly arrogant thinking and I don't like it at all. Do some people buy Macs because they think it'll make them cool like the ad said? Sure, but whatever, I don't hold it against them, just like I don't hold it against people who fall for the ridiculous "Windows was my idea" idiocy or buy into those silly Droid ads with their Gears Of War style EXTREME advertising that positions itself as an alternative to those other boring smartphones. Yeah, dumb.

All I care about is the product, so whatever. If its good (and both Windows 7 and the Droid are good products), then great. If a piece of marketing is also fun or entertaining then I can enjoy it on its own merits, while also knowing that it functions discreetly as its own piece of entertainment that has little or nothing to do with the quality of the product. If there is a correlation, then it is usually a coincidence. A great product can have crap advertising and vice versa. The new Old Spice ads are fucking brilliant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE), but you couldn't get me to wear that crap in a million years.

Oh, and Valve remixing Apple's iconic ad campaigns with their own characters, yes, brilliant marketing, especially the bit with Alyx in the 1984 ad. Even non-Mac users are getting excited by it. I'm continually impressed by Valve's ability to get people excited for their products. There was no evidence of any such ability before The Orange Box dropped, it seems like it came out of nowhere.
 
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@heatlesssun - Last thoughts on this.

It doesn't take that much to play a lot of great games nowadays, and a lot of great games are already available on OS X. That said, I get the feeling that Steam on the Mac will have proportionally larger importance for indie and casual developers compared to the AAA blockbusters. This is partly because I believe that people who are interested in those big budget PC games (Bad Company 2 for example) will likely already have a decent gaming rig running Windows. But there are a ton of Macbooks out there in the hands of people that only play games casually, if at all, and they do not have a gaming PC. The rest either already have PCs like me and will use this as a way to delete Windows from their Macbook Pros, or they play WoW, which doesn't really help Valve. :p

In any case, its a big market and I believe that that particular casual gaming niche may be the "killer app" for Steam on OS X. Mac users are already used to downloading applications (perfect example: http://www.panic.com/) or music/movies/apps from iTunes, so an all digital distribution system like Steam should be a very easy sell. I could be wrong, maybe Left 4 Dead 2 and Dragon Age will be huge sellers on Steam for Mac, but I wouldn't bet on it, not when Steam is also a huge portal to casual gaming (this is not a bad thing BTW, a good chunk of the 160 games in my Steam library are "casual" or "indie").

Maybe I'm being presumptuous and assuming too much, maybe the audience will skew more hardcore, I dunno, we'll see. I'm very interested to see what impact this has on the game industry beyond Valve's pocketbooks. Whatever it is, I imagine that it will only be positive for us gamers that like to play with a mouse and keyboard. Anything to keep the platform relevant and vital, IMO
 
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Because we'd rather see efforts being made to bring Source games to Mac, than seeing Episode 3.
 
Funny when people rip on Mac gaming yet fail to realize the Halo universe pretty much began on the Mac OS.
 
Funny when people rip on Mac gaming yet fail to realize the Halo universe pretty much began on the Mac OS.

All PC gamers worship Halo. Much better universe than anything from those other crappy PC games.
 
All PC gamers worship Halo. Much better universe than anything from those other crappy PC games.

Pretty sure you're joking. My point was people laugh at the Mac as a gaming platform, yet fail to realize the Halo universe evolved from a Mac-based game. Just because developers don't make the games doesn't mean it's a bad platform.
 
And in a few years people are going to be saying, "Remember when Steam had games for the Mac...what happened with that?"
 
Yeah, my point was that Halo is far from being anywhere close to the best of PC gaming. If Dragon Ball Z originated from Mac heritage .... well, it just wouldn't be something to brag about.

And yes, about any game can potentially be made for mac, given enough development time and effort... maybe. It's just that the game would run on more expensive hardware for less performance.

Aside from that..
My theory is this... and I could be wrong. Valve has postponed releasing Portal 2 and Half-Life 3/ep3 until after they get the Source engine to play nice on the mac. This means that we probably would have already seen Portal 2 and HF3 released if we weren't waiting for the mac versions.
 
this is great news, now i have more ammo to defend my argument to my wife about buying a 27" iMac, and retiring my mini. thanks Valve!! :D
 
Yep, it's a stereotype and therefore not true 100% of the time. I work in IT and deal with a great many people and platforms both in and out of work and know from personal experience what to expect from macs and their users.

Stereotypes are helpful approximations, their inaccuracies are acceptable collateral damage.

I think we probably agree on a lot of other points, I just dont sugar coat my opinions, except for when I get infractions and I'm forced to hold my tongue ;)
 
surely any mac with any form of capable GPU is going to cost a bomb tho
 
I haven't used a Mac since middle school, and don't intend to start now. But, I think this is really cool. Both the way that valve has been releasing info recently, and them putting in the time to make their stuff cross platform. (assuming all the rumors are true, of course.)
 
While this is good news for Mac users, I really hope this isn't what the Portal upgrade clues were about.
 
mac pro's can be bought with a 4870 which is only the most expensive mac you can buy :p

Fortunately the Macbook Pros and mid to high end iMacs are more than capable gaming machines. I sometimes play TF2 and L4D2 on my two year old Macbook Pro and it cranks through them great. Newer ones will run them even better and there are new MBPs right around the corner. The only difference now is that people won't need to boot into Windows to play Source games, which I'm fine with.

So yeah, you don't need to spend a minimum $2500 (geez) for an i7 Xeon workstation without display (geez again) to game on a Mac.
 
+1 bigger gaming community is always good, regardless of what platform. Come one come all!

Yup. Again, I think its great that the staunchest supporters of PC gaming, Blizzard and Valve (you can also throw John Carmack into the mix even though id hasn't released a game in years) are also big supporters of the Mac. The control interface, mouse and keyboard, are what are is important, arguably more important than the operating system. The important matters there are stability, support, and documentation, both of which Windows and OS X have.

Considering how PC gaming has taken it on the chin from the console market, I think it is only a good thing to introduce Steam's ease of use to platforms beyond Windows. I wonder how far behind this a Linux port is. Its a tiny market but I'm (maybe incorrectly) assuming that an OS X to Linux port would be a much smaller ordeal than a Windows to OS X port.
 
Fortunately the Macbook Pros and mid to high end iMacs are more than capable gaming machines. I sometimes play TF2 and L4D2 on my two year old Macbook Pro and it cranks through them great. Newer ones will run them even better and there are new MBPs right around the corner. The only difference now is that people won't need to boot into Windows to play Source games, which I'm fine with.

So yeah, you don't need to spend a minimum $2500 (geez) for an i7 Xeon workstation without display (geez again) to game on a Mac.

Your definition of "More than capable gaming machine" and the rest of the planets are obviously 2 very different things.

Playing source engine games or games like wow does not mean that weak ass hardware is even close to being a "more than capable gaming machine".

I would really like to know what makes people think being able to play source games at medium means they have a gaming machine? :rolleyes:

This is the [H] forum last i checked not the limp ass we play on medium forum. :cool:
 
Yup. Again, I think its great that the staunchest supporters of PC gaming, Blizzard and Valve (you can also throw John Carmack into the mix even though id hasn't released a game in years) are also big supporters of the Mac. The control interface, mouse and keyboard, are what are is important, arguably more important than the operating system. The important matters there are stability, support, and documentation, both of which Windows and OS X have.

I do agree that a bigger community is a win for all but theres more to it than you say. API for one, in order to play games natively on OSX they have to be in OpenGL which currently compared to DX is absolute shit.

This could potentially do great harm to the PC gaming community if devs decide to be lazy and just make games in opengl to be compatible on all platforms. It would be one monstrous step backwards in terms of graphical quality.

Considering how PC gaming has taken it on the chin from the console market, I think it is only a good thing to introduce Steam's ease of use to platforms beyond Windows. I wonder how far behind this a Linux port is. Its a tiny market but I'm (maybe incorrectly) assuming that an OS X to Linux port would be a much smaller ordeal than a Windows to OS X port.

I think you and many others are severely underestimating the linux community. If steam does the extra work to port to linux while they are at it i wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see a larger presence of linux users than OSX users.

Because there is no reliable way to tell just how much market share desktop linux has because of its free nature you simply cant say how many there are. The estimates i have read put desktop linux at about the same market share as OSX which wouldnt surprise me one bit.
 
Disposed - Have you even looked at the PC specs in my sig? Give me a break, I know full well what gaming performance is; I'm currently playing BFBC2 at 1920x1200 with everything cranked. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about the performance of a two year old notebook here. Pretty much everything I've thrown on it runs great at its native res. The only thing I haven't tried is Crysis, but that game belongs in its own category (plus its a boring game :)). Take a current MBP, which is technically "old" since a new refresh is right around the corner, and you're again talking about good performance at high settings.

Sorry dude, bag on the performance of these machines and you might as well start criticizing the performance of other high end notebooks.
 
This could potentially do great harm to the PC gaming community if devs decide to be lazy and just make games in opengl to be compatible on all platforms. It would be one monstrous step backwards in terms of graphical quality.

I fully understand than OpenGL has been behind DX due to committee bickering holding the spec back. That said, Carmack has been a huge OpenGL supporter for a very long time and his stuff looks great. Other studios like Blizzard use OpenGL, and while their games are far from being graphically amazing from a technical standpoint, it can't be said that it has affected their pocketbooks one bit. They still make appealing looking games that run on a huge variety of systems.

Then you have the Playstation 3 which uses OpenGL. I would argue that the best looking game of last year on any platform is Uncharted 2, a game developed specifically for the PS3. Whatever the case, great looking games have been made using that API.

I think you and many others are severely underestimating the linux community. If steam does the extra work to port to linux while they are at it i wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see a larger presence of linux users than OSX users.

Because there is no reliable way to tell just how much market share desktop linux has because of its free nature you simply cant say how many there are. The estimates i have read put desktop linux at about the same market share as OSX which wouldnt surprise me one bit.

We will see. Apple continues to break records every quarter for Macs sales. Are there 3+ million new Linux desktops going up every quarter? Do notebooks with Ubuntu preinstalled come anywhere close to the number of Macbooks sold? I wouldn't think so. I think the recent Linux desktop operating systems are very nice and they continue to get better (I used to dual-boot Ubuntu before my recent build), but I also have a hard time believing that they are gaining any significant traction. The biggest roadblock to Steam adoption on Linux aside from customer install base is a technical one, in that drivers and documentation are still a huge mess compared with Windows or OS X.

Then there's the fact that the Linux game market is significantly smaller than what is available on OS X. Valve wouldn't port Steam to Mac if there wasn't a big enough library on the platform, and believe it or not there is a huge library of Mac games out there. All Valve has to do is partner with EA, Popcap, id, Telltale, all of the publishers and developers that they already have relationships with, and just have another link to their OS X ports. It isn't a big leap at all.

Either way I hope Linux gets in, partly because mouse & keyboard games should have a chance to flourish on any well supported platform, but also because I want to see how the OS results of a Steam hardware survey shakes out. They are already fascinating from a hardware/Windows OS standpoint, but it would be even cooler to see how the distribution of other operating systems goes. I don't think any such poll has been made before. I would also be very surprised if the number of Linux desktops was anything close to a percentage of a percentage of OS X installations, but hopefully we'll see.
 
Disposed - Have you even looked at the PC specs in my sig? Give me a break, I know full well what gaming performance is; I'm currently playing BFBC2 at 1920x1200 with everything cranked. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about the performance of a two year old notebook here. Pretty much everything I've thrown on it runs great at its native res. The only thing I haven't tried is Crysis, but that game belongs in its own category (plus its a boring game :)). Take a current MBP, which is technically "old" since a new refresh is right around the corner, and you're again talking about good performance at high settings.

I honestly dont care what your main gaming rig is you lost me when you said that 2 year old macbook was a "capable gaming machine".

Sorry dude, bag on the performance of these machines and you might as well start criticizing the performance of other high end notebooks.

Have you ever even bothered to look at the high end gaming notebooks? For the same price of a high end macbook you can get a notebook that easily competes with most gaming rigs. Now go look at the wimpy hardware in the macbook and compare it to similarly priced machines from sager etc.

serpico said:
I would argue that the best looking game of last year on any platform is Uncharted 2

And you would be laughed at like a crazy person.
 
I honestly dont care what your main gaming rig is you lost me when you said that 2 year old macbook was a "capable gaming machine".

It certainly is, especially for a two year old machine. What is there about a 2.5ghz Core 2 Duo running a 8600M GT from 2008 that can run TF2 and L4D2 that is so strange to you? That sort of configuration was also in the high end of things like the Dell XPS line from back then, and I wouldn't dare call them crap for playing games.

Have you ever even bothered to look at the high end gaming notebooks? For the same price of a high end macbook you can get a notebook that easily competes with most gaming rigs. Now go look at the wimpy hardware in the macbook and compare it to similarly priced machines from sager etc.

Yup, and they're 12lbs, have 1.5 hours of battery life, have bulky cases, poor keyboards, etc etc. Sorry, not a good "portable" by any means, I'd hate to travel with those things.

Fact is that Macbook Pros have great hardware for running games. The only thing holding them back at the moment is that the current refresh was delayed because Apple didn't want Intel's Arrandale crappy IGP, which means that it'll require a custom i5/i7 mobile CPU to work with their preferred 9400M plus whatever other dedicated GPU Apple is putting in the upcoming i5 and i7 MBPs.

The prior MBP refresh and the one that I bought in early 2008 had comparable GPUs to ones from other high end notebooks out there, and it'll likely be the case whenever the new MBPs finally come out.

And you would be laughed at like a crazy person.

Name one game from last year that looked better. I can't think of one. Again, fact of the matter is that great things have been done with OpenGL and OpenGL ports. Uncharted 2 looks bad to you, I suppose Rage also looks bad to you then. :rolleyes:
 
This is the [H] forum last i checked not the limp ass we play on medium forum. :cool:

You've been on this forum for five days. Steady on there chief.

I would argue that the best looking game of last year on any platform is Uncharted 2, a game developed specifically for the PS3. Whatever the case, great looking games have been made using that API.

And you would be laughed at like a crazy person.

I'm not laughing. I thought about it and I can't come up with a game that looked better.
 
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You've been on this forum for five days. Steady on there chief.

Whats with everyones deal with how long my accounts been active? Believe it or not these are the forums to another site and believe it or not i have been reading the [H]OCP and hardforums for years...
 
It has been said before but I'll say it again. Hopefully this means that Steam will soon be ported to Linux.
 
Whats with everyones deal with how long my accounts been active? Believe it or not these are the forums to another site and believe it or not i have been reading the [H]OCP and hardforums for years...

does not matter. It's just really lame when you trash on other people. Not appreciated here.
 
I'm glad more companies are looking to open up their audience. It'll mean more gamers to keep older games alive longer. While I hate Mac marketing, it's just idiocy, I like this decision by valve.

My biggest question is the upgradability for the Mac's, or more specific, the ability of Mac users to not want to get %100 of the visuals. they are going to hear about people with bleeding edge pc hardware maxing out the newest games. Mac's have a longer hardware cycle than pc's. So 2 or 3 years in it'll become justifying running on medium settings for certain games, vs buying a whole new system.
With the Mac's reputation in the graphic design and advertising fields as being the top of the line in the visual area how is that going to translate to people wanting to play the newest games with the graphics maxed out on 2 to 3 year olf hardware. You can debate it all you want but people are going to confuse the two. Just think of the general public here, not people involved in the field. I guess it will depend on how hard the mainstream Mac marketing runs with this. If they run ads taking shots at pc gaming etc... It could give the wrong impression to joe or jane general public looking to buy a computer. either for themselves or for their children.

These are just speedbumps though. Overall it's a good thing.
 
Confirmation and details: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62687

Source games run natively and are not emulated, are in lock-step with the Windows version which means that everyone has the same patches and updates (important for TF2), and Steam Cloud support will juggle saved games and settings between the two.

Important quote:

Steam Play will allow Mac gamers to play against PC gamers and -- for our games and any of our partners who are interested in using the feature -- be able to obtain any game they purchase on either system without the need to purchase two copies. So, for example, if you already own Left 4 Dead 2 on the PC you won't need to purchase it again for the Mac.

I'm assuming that this only 100% applies to Valve's own games and that other publishers (ie - EA, Telltale, PopCap) will have it at their own discretion whether or not to throw in their own Mac versions if you already own the PC version. Either way, cool!
 
I hereby award Valve Software one internets for their continued pursuit of awesomeness.
 
Confirmation and details: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62687

Source games run natively and are not emulated, are in lock-step with the Windows version which means that everyone has the same patches and updates (important for TF2), and Steam Cloud support will juggle saved games and settings between the two.

Important quote:



I'm assuming that this only 100% applies to Valve's own games and that other publishers (ie - EA, Telltale, PopCap) will have it at their own discretion whether or not to throw in their own Mac versions if you already own the PC version. Either way, cool!

Now thats good news! Now they just need to get busy with a linux client. :cool:
 
I hereby award Valve Software one internets for their continued pursuit of awesomeness.

I'm glad they went this way. Blizzard also does this, in that if I own Starcraft or Diablo or whatever for Windows, I also get it for OS X. Other companies such as PopCap sell those versions separately. Others like EA do kind of half-and-half, in that Spore and Sims have both versions in the same package, while Dragon Age is separate since the OS X version is download only. I really hope that everyone hops on board with Steam Play. There are loads of PC gamers out there that own Macbook Pros and would appreciate not having to boot into Windows to play another game. Steam is making the biggest step towards making that happen, the only thing that needs to happen to really put it over the top is for more publishers to sell their Windows and OS X versions as the same SKU.
 
A person who uses the best operating system on well-designed, aluminum wrapped goodness to play their games.

In all seriousness this is about Steam finally coming to OS X, take Mac vs PC somewhere else, or just drop it for once. I know it's hard but it is possible.

That's funny, I'm pretty sure a Mac gamer is a gamer who spends a lot more money to play a lot less games.
 
Your definition of "More than capable gaming machine" and the rest of the planets are obviously 2 very different things.

Playing source engine games or games like wow does not mean that weak ass hardware is even close to being a "more than capable gaming machine".

I would really like to know what makes people think being able to play source games at medium means they have a gaming machine? :rolleyes:

This is the [H] forum last i checked not the limp ass we play on medium forum. :cool:

My 2 year old MBP plays Left 4 Dead, TF2, HL2: EP2, Dead Space, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and tons of other top notch games without breaking a sweat at the highest settings.

So yes, more than capable gaming machines.
 
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