Amplifiers and Pre-amps

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astrallite

Gawd
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Jan 9, 2008
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Stand alone amplifiers usually have no way to adjust amplitude or gain unless a pre-amp is also connected to the system. Here's my question--as a temporary solution--can a sound card act as a pre-amp?

I assume If you hooked a sound card directly to an amplifier (stereo mini to RCA) you will get a low voltage input which means somewhat limited output.

I'm thinking of picking up an ICEpower based amplifier but since I am unsure what pre-amp to go with, i was wondering if a sound card would suffice.
 
You'd be far better off with a receiver. If you an afford a stand-alone amp, you can afford a better source than a sound card. Source always comes first.
 
I know, it's temporary. I mean whether I get a pre-pro or a receiver as the preamp I still need an interim solution before I make a decision--which is why I am asking if a low level output like a soundcard will work (at all) with a stand alone amp.
 
Soundcard to amp should work fine in terms of just getting audio pumped out.

I have a preamp going to an amp... it all depends on your budget and your preference when it comes to your preamp (and amp). Synergy (how well your amp's character matches with the preamp as well as the voltages that each component plays with) plays a role as well.
 
Lol this is gonna be pretty interesting. I wonder how loud a 525Wx2 icepower amp will sound with just a laptop sound card powering it.
 
I'm thinking of going with a receiver with pre-outs for this amp. Right now my candidates are the HK AVR-347 and the Yamaha RX-V663. It appears they have identical power ratings, although I suspect the HK may be superior (based on what? the HK used to retail at $900. Is pricier really better?).

The only thing I care about is pre-out quality. According to Audioholics the Yamaha RX-v2600 had the best pre-out quality they've ever seen...although I don't know if I could simply say the same about a lower model like the 663.

Is there any way of finding out which likely has the better pre-out quality or is this a complete tossup that I may have to decide based on my pre-made assumptions of brand quality? What a waste of words, phew.
 
Receiver wattage has nothing to do with pre-out quality, but my bet goes with the HK as the better choice. Denon is also supposedly very good.
 
Sure, a soundcard works just fine hooked to an amp. That's what I do. I have my X-Fi hooked straight to my 3 amps and my sub. Just means that I have to do volume adjustments on my soundcard (the amps do have attenuators, but one per channel so I'd have to adjust 6 controls). No real need for any sort of preamplifier unless you don't like to control the volume with the soundcard.
 
astrallite said:
Lol this is gonna be pretty interesting. I wonder how loud a 525Wx2 icepower amp will sound with just a laptop sound card powering it.
Click to expand...

525W? For a home installation that is... excessive.

Don't be fooled into thinking that more watts are better, because they're not. I've heard 75W amplifiers that sound louder than a 500W amp, it all depends if they're high current or high voltage amplifiers. High current is always better, because speakers need current to drive the voice coils in them.

Laptop sound cards are notoriously poor quality, although technically it will work. You may want to look into getting a decent quality external sound card, that will make a huge difference.
 
ICEpower is a class-d switching technology that has ridiculously low distortion, its 525W of clean power and stays below 0.01% THD along the entire power curve (7KHz sweep), and under 0.005% THD on 1KHz and below output.

And no, I don't really need 525W for music, although for movies, even 525W is not enough power to hit reference level peak (105db). I have 83W sensitive speakers and sit about 15 feet away, assuming 83% efficiency at most my speakers will hit 100db (with small room gain, 15'x20'). Of course the amp *could* produce more output at clipping but that would be way to dangerous.

So even this amp would clip trying to reproduce reference level playback. Not that such an output level is NEEDED, haha.

I ended up getting a Yamaha RX-V663 for the pre-outs. The thing is hideous but I bought it since it claimed to have Burr-Brown DACs while the HK AVR-347 didn't specify what DAC it was. Of course the lower end Burr-Browns only provide 113db SNR instead of 132db SNR for the top shelf versions (S-Audio CDs output at 120db SNR). So who knows, I'm trying to do research but HK doesn't seem to provide a whole lot of info about their DACs.

Well I'll hope for the best, I have the Panasonic SA-XR55 right now, I'm switching between this and the Yamaha RX-V663's internal amps (my icepower amp is still in transit). I have to say for a $550 receiver the internal amp is hideous, the bass sounds boomy, everything sounds veiled, and there's very little power at all despite being marketed as 95W/channel. I have to turn this thing up to about 2/3 volume (53/80) to get the same output as 1/5 (16/73) volume on the Panny's.

Man if only the Panny had pre-outs, it would be such an awesome receiver. The stereo output was really amazing, dual amping with what were already considerably beefy amps for under $1k receiver.
 
I'm using it as a processor too. Just using the Yamaha instead of the Panny as receiver (although I could always return the Yammy it if there's a better option under $500). The Panny will go somewhere else, maybe a bedroom setup.
 
It's odd to hear that Yamaha performed that much worse than the Panasonic, but I'd say give Harman Kardon a try. They seem to be pretty well regarded in terms of overall sound quality over at avsforum.
 
Well the internal amp isn't great but my external amp is coming soon so it's not a big deal. From my scrounging up online it appears the DAC of the HK-330 has lower bit conversion errors than the Yamaha RX-V661. (The ones I am considering at the HK-347 and the RX-V663--I assume nothing has changed from a DAC side).

It's kind of a tradeoff, HK-247/347 seems to have very bad dolby digital performance, a lot ocassional "pops" and firmware problems, but as a DAC and pre-amp it might be slightly better--is it audible? I don't know.

Here are the numbers below:

YAMAHA RX-V661 STEREO PERFORMANCE, DIGITAL INPUT

Reference level is -20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was -3 dB.

Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both channels driven): 99/137 watts* (20/21.4 dBW)*
Distortion at reference level: 0.03%
Linearity error (at -90 dBFS): 1.3 dB
Noise level (A-weighted): -76 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: -84.3 dB
Excess noise (with/without sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.8/0.25 dB
quasi-20-bit (EN20): 12.2/11.7 dB
Noise modulation: 1.3 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.1 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: 20 Hz to 43 kHz +0, -3 dB

HK AVR-330 PCM STEREO PERFORMANCE
Reference level is –20 dBFS; all level trims at
zero. Volume setting for reference level was –8.
Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both
channels driven).........86/25 W (19.3/13.9 dBW)
Distortion at reference level ..................0.03%
Linearity error (at –90 dBFS) ....................0 dB
Noise level (A-wtd)..............................–74.4 dB
(with 96-kHz/24-bit signals, –99.3 dB)

Excess noise (with/without sine tone)
16-bit (EN16)......................................1.1/1.3 dB
quasi-20-bit (EN20) ........................13.7/13.5 dB
Noise modulation ...................................0.8 dB
Frequency response
20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, –0.4 dB (with 96-kHz/24-bit
signals, 8 Hz to 43 kHz, +0, –3 dB)
 
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