Amp or Receiver

[haste.]

I have been dabbling into upgrading from my PC speakers to some Definitive Technology BP1.2x's I have sitting around collecting dust. What is a better route, using just an amp from my X-fi or using a receiver that is obviously going to do some processing?

As of right now it's going to be X-Fi -> Amp/Receiver -> Speakers, but I plan on adding a sub down the line, something the amp is going to have to bypass through while the receiver will likely have a seperate channel... Or I could get some ProMedia 2.1's and call it a day. I'm certain the deftechs will hammer on those though.

 

[Procyon12]

first thing to understand:
receiver = amp + pre amp + tuner
integrated amp = amp + pre amp
amp = amp.

im going to assume you mean HT receiver vs. any variation of a stereo amp.

here's my opinion:
-If you dont want to go 5.1+ down the line, and you already have a decent sound card/dac integrated amps are a better value.
-most inexpensive HT receivers suck for music bass management. they do fine to fold the .1 channel around, but for music, they like, seriously suck. i would rather get a sub wired in parallel and have no 'true' bass management than use a cheapy receivers bass management. your misinformed that you need to run seperate lines or use a pass through if you dont have a receiver
-Harmon Kardon has a great 2.1 analog receiver that does subwoofer bass managment, only costs $240 and sounds decent.
-Those Def Techs are bipole surrounds and should be placed wide apart to sound decent as fronts. can you fit them about 5+ feet apart?

 

[haste.]

The deftechs will be placed at least 5 ft apart. I had some concern w/the bipolar, I just fired them up in B on one of my receivers and besides the complete lack of any low end they sound fine.

I am not completely clear with integrated amp vs. non-integrated amp. I have a marantz sr7005 for my main system and it seems to have pretty decent management on any channel... Obviously am not going to invest that for a PC setup. For the amp I was thinking something cheap for example http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-7...F8&qid=1344210462&sr=8-4&keywords=audiosource

If you could elaborate a bit it would be much appreciated. My plan is to fire up an amp similar to the one listed above (first I found on a quick search), and then either build a economy sub with an 8" driver and decent 75w (or so) amp or buy something like a Polk PSW100 (If I'm feeling lazy) during the next couple months. If you have any recommendations I would love to see them!

 

[Zenshi]

An integrated amplifier is basically a pre-amplifier (which you can think of as the control source) and the power amplifier (which you can think of as the power source). In essence the term amplifier is technically for your power amplifier since your control source doesn't really amplify the signal. So a pre-amp and power amp combo is similar to an integrated amplifier. Then there is the tuner, which basically tunes to whatever input signals you had (in the old days the am/fm radio signals but these days is more). When you put them together, they are the equivalent of a receiver.

 

[Procyon12]

that audiosource is good, but my opinion in that price range:
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/a100

i would probably just buy subwoofer than try to make a cheap one. id only make one if you were looking to make a real good one. the Energy ESW-C8 used to be around $130 but then the price went up first $50 and now $100. but its a great sub. i think there is a yamaha 8" offering i would take over that Polk.

hook up the sub on the high level inputs, in parallel with the speakers.

 

[haste.]

The only reason I considered building is that I once threw together a decent downfiring 6" sub for around $70. I used just a small 50w amp, but it blew the cheap subs I compared it to away. I have 3 Mirage subs that made it seem foolish, but it was solid for what I invested. Sold it with some gear a long time ago, but it's still hitting hard... It was so cheap because I repurposed a cheap passive Onkyo enclosure I had idling. I think I'll hold out until I find a decent cheapish commercial sub on sale though.

I'm very happy I didn't grab ProMedia's as I almost did. If I'm understanding everything correct, all I need is a power amp since the control will be done by the PC. Therefore either of the amps linked here would be sufficient.

 

[haste.]

Thanks guys for your help. I ended up just grabbing a cheap AudioSource Amp100 and one of the Audio Acoustics 8" subs off ebay for dirt cheap. The amp will likely be replaced down the line, but I'm pleasantly surprised at how well the inexpensive sub has performed.

The sub is not as clean as my Mirage subs, but was more than I ever could have expected at $60. I honestly would have no trouble recommending one to someone trying to pinch pennies - again I'm not comparing it to high end subs, both my Mirage subs are much nicer but also cost well over 5x as much.

Anyways, I'm waiting on the amp still, but fired up the speakers and the sub to speaker B on one of my receivers and I am absolutely confident that buying a commercial 2.1 PC system would have been a huge mistake. The system sounds great. Just the two speakers and the sub is "filling" a room with 18 ft. ceilings that is 25 x 20 (It's doing alright). Can't wait to get them in my office!

 

[Procyon12]

the audiosource 100 is a great amp for the price.

i actually first heard that amp, because my go to Hi Fi dealer (who deals with mostly Naim, Linn, and the likes of those) was actually reccomending that amp in an entry level system to go with EPOS ELS3s.

this is how you want to hook up that sub to the audiosource 100:
http://i.imgur.com/Z8FMJ.png

 

[haste.]

the audiosource 100 is a great amp for the price.

i actually first heard that amp, because my go to Hi Fi dealer (who deals with mostly Naim, Linn, and the likes of those) was actually reccomending that amp in an entry level system to go with EPOS ELS3s.

this is how you want to hook up that sub to the audiosource 100:
http://i.imgur.com/Z8FMJ.png

Quick question on that diagram. You recommend using a dac to bypass the X-Fi... Wouldn't the processing on the X-Fi work kind of like a preamp and give better sound than using the dac?

My initial idea is to use a y splitter from the x-fi out to the amp, direct wire to the speakers and use the line out on the amp to the line level in on the sub.

 

[Procyon12]

Quick question on that diagram. You recommend using a dac to bypass the X-Fi... Wouldn't the processing on the X-Fi work kind of like a preamp and give better sound than using the dac?

My initial idea is to use a y splitter from the x-fi out to the amp, direct wire to the speakers and use the line out on the amp to the line level in on the sub.

the only part that was relevant for that diagram is the amp-sub-speaker section.

unless there is no other option, i would not recommend using line level to a sub when there isnt a dedicated LFE channel or crossover in the pre amp.

do yourself a favor and try both ways. i bet you'll find it sounds better this way. if you dont want to crossover the speakers you can wire in parallel.

 

[haste.]

the only part that was relevant for that diagram is the amp-sub-speaker section.

unless there is no other option, i would not recommend using line level to a sub when there isnt a dedicated LFE channel or crossover in the pre amp.

do yourself a favor and try both ways. i bet you'll find it sounds better this way. if you dont want to crossover the speakers you can wire in parallel.

I hear ya. I have everything hooked up to speaker b on one of my revievers using the speaker level ins and outs on the sub and it sounds great. Took a little tweaking to find the sweet spot, but I'm very happy with the performance.

I'm sorry for my ignorance, I am somewhat familiar with audio systems, but am not entirely sure what you mean by wire in parrallel.

Edit: I do understand wiring in parrellel in general. Not for this application though...

 

[Procyon12]

Edit: I do understand wiring in parrellel in general. Not for this application though...

instead of wiring through the sub, wire two leads into each connection from the amp; one to the the speaker and another to the sub.

 

[haste.]

instead of wiring through the sub, wire two leads into each connection from the amp; one to the the speaker and another to the sub.

Got ya. Thanks.

 

[haste.]

I finally was able to get this all fired up as some of the parts were bday presents to myself (happy birthday me!). I ran it speaker level in and out through the sub. I think I understand why you recommended that as the sub amp can filter some of the low end in the speakers and therefore get a better blend.

It sounds great. Music sounds many times better. The bipolar speakers fill the room so much that I sometimes am searching for ghosts behind me when gaming though (but that's what cans are for).

The amp100 is powerful enough for what I'm throwing at it. The BP1.2x are surprisingly sensitive. And once more, for an extremely cheap sub that little guy is responsive and has more than enough power for my office. I couldn't imagine getting anything even close to it in the $100 range...

What a mistake the ProMedias or Logi's would have been at this price point. I had the bookshelfs, but for $40 one could get acceptable bookshelf speakers and pair it with what I did and destroy those toys.

 

[atarione]

I couldn't decide so i have both


I have a Pioneer SX-780 (vintage receiver 45wpc) and a Pioneer SA-710 (integrated amplifier 65wpc) on my desk I have Polk T-15s for the SX-780 and RTi4s w/ the SA-710

I also have a 25wpc pioneer SA-410 (not really using right now) (paid $20 for it in awesome shape and it sounds pretty awesome for being 25watts)

and now because I'm an idiot I bought a 70wpc SAE TWO A7 (70wpc) intergrated amp on ebay for $45~ (60~ shipped)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

looking forward to trying it out.

and I have a HH Scott 440A which looks awesome but is currently broken going to get it fixed soon.

 

[Zenshi]

Wow that brings back memories. SAE or Scientific Audio Electronics was one of the high end stereo manufacturers back in the 80's (in the level of Phase Linear, Great American Sound, Crown, Nakamichi, McIntosh and others).

If that pic is the actual unit, it looks like its in great shape. Hope it works well.

 

[haste.]

Wow that brings back memories. SAE or Scientific Audio Electronics was one of the high end stereo manufacturers back in the 80's (in the level of Phase Linear, Great American Sound, Crown, Nakamichi, McIntosh and others).

If that pic is the actual unit, it looks like its in great shape. Hope it works well.

Nakamichi was awesome in the 80s and 90s. My first higher end receiver was a Nak in late 90s when I was like 15 years old. It was my birthday yesterday and it was weird to reflect on how long ago the 90s were.

 

[atarione]

Wow that brings back memories. SAE or Scientific Audio Electronics was one of the high end stereo manufacturers back in the 80's (in the level of Phase Linear, Great American Sound, Crown, Nakamichi, McIntosh and others).

If that pic is the actual unit, it looks like its in great shape. Hope it works well.

Yeah ... brings back memories of how we never had anything like this when i was a kid ...oh well...

so yeah that pic is the actual unit I'm hoping it sounds as good as it looks..... hopefully will find out pretty soon here should on it's way next week.

 

[haste.]

Yeah ... brings back memories of how we never had anything like this when i was a kid ...oh well...

so yeah that pic is the actual unit I'm hoping it sounds as good as it looks..... hopefully will find out pretty soon here should on it's way next week.

Thats why we all bust our asses, right?

I hope that it works as well as it looks.