AMD's ATI Radeon HD 5870 Video Card Review @ [H]

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Brent_Justice, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. Brackle

    Brackle Old Timer

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    Man these are some great cards. Cannot wait to pick 2 of them up this friday.

    Glad to know that Physix is going to be useless compared to these cards.
     
  2. Tamlin_WSGF

    Tamlin_WSGF 2[H]4U

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    When Nvidia brings its GT300 to the market, I bet it will generate a lot of interest there as well. At least for me and [H] has a history of welcoming new Nvidia cards as well.

    Sadly, I don't think that you have given the 5800 any welcome. You've complained about lack of PhysX evaluation and how little impressed you are by it. Perhaps you'd prefer that [H] is talking about Nvidia when evaluating an ATI card?

    PhysX itself is not very impressing in its current state. It has potential, but not shown it yet. Cloth we've seen already in UFC 2009: Undisputed which is not scripted running only on CPU. Flying papers and leaves might appeal to some, but I must say I'm more impressed with Farcry 2's ingame physics with weather that impacts gameplay where wind direction affects your flamethrower and grass burning etc:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfSBHJRU9_Q

    Eyefinity however gives more to gameplay then any physics it seems, also in batman:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujf6P6iGcfc&feature=channel_page

    You might argue about cost, but thats up to everyones wallet. If you buy a cheap GFX, you'd probably turn off PhysX as well to run the game decently.

    Current PhysX is sadly only a sidenote in my opinion... If you have the same effects shown on PhysX GPU scripted, it doesn't give that much to desire. Some might be a bit more impressed if effects are simple turned off instead.

    As long as PhysX isn't an open standard on GPU, you'll probably never see anything major in them anyway. Perhaps when games with either Bullet on OpenCL or Havok on OpenCL comes, we'll see some GPU accelerated physics thats worth a second thought.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  3. Burke888

    Burke888 Limp Gawd

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    It's great to see a new card hit the market, that's never a bad thing at all.
    I too am a little disappointed by the 5870's performance when compared to existing cards. I think I may have been expecting too much, but I really wanted to take a glance at one of these benchmarks charts and be able to instantly see the 5870. Think back to the release of the Radeon 9700 Pro, or the 8800GTX.

    Sadly I am looking at AnandTech's graphs and the only reason I know it's the 5870 is not because of it's extra long bar on the bar graph, but rather the fact that they colored the bar neon green. :(
    To make matters worse, we still can't run Crysis.

    I'm currently running a Sapphire 4890 and I can seriously say that I will not be upgrading to the 5870, the dollar to performance ratio isn't even there for me. I originally only bought the 4890 to tide me over (I had an 8800GTX) until the next release of graphics cards, but now sadly, it looks as if I'll have to hang on to this thing for a little bit longer.
     
  4. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    Qft.

    When a game won't run on max setting on a card spitting out over 2teraflops and a core I7 clocked at 3.6ghz then there is something obviously wrong with the card and or the cpu. I am glad we have all these experts on coding in here. /sarcasm
     
  5. Sacrilego

    Sacrilego Lurker

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    Hmm... I think Nvidia might be turning red just about now ;)

    This is the first time in about about 6 years that I can actually say that I REALLY want a new video card!
    The 4800 series already had my interest, but the 5800 series has totally won me over. When are we gonna see these available?

    WHOA!!! Finally 64 posts after 5 years of noobness :D
     
  6. Xorphious

    Xorphious n00b

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    Thanks for the helpful response.

    Some games only show a 10 fps difference (roughly), and I already run everything maxed with good performance in most games. Some other games show upwards of 20 fps+ more. Of course, that's comparing [H]'s testing with some others I'm seeing around.

    But in general, it looks as if that moving from the GTX 280 to the 5870 running at 1920 res would be a relatively huge boost in both visuals and performance then?
    Generally speaking...

    Is that a safe assumption to make? Or would that be over-playing things?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  7. vjcsmoke

    vjcsmoke [H]ardness Supreme

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    I ordered one from the Egg today. Keep looking online, they tend to come in and out of stock on the various etailers. If you have a microcenter or something like that near you, then call and check to see if they have a card in stock.

    Check out the numbers for yourself:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7014
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  8. Xorphious

    Xorphious n00b

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    Holy crap...

    I never go by 3D Mark scores, but the 50+ fps difference between the 285 and 5870... damn!

    Well, considering it runs Crysis: Warhead on Enthusiast and gets the same fps I get with a GTX 280 on Gamer, pretty much tells me that it's worth it, I'd think. Hell, if I ran the 5870 on Gamer in Crysis: Warhead, I'd bet it'd be the first single GPU to hit between 50-60fps, considering the massive difference better Enthusiast and Gamer.

    Eh, I guess I'm pretty well sold. Heh.

    Again, the only thing for me being that most games I play (mainly FPS) I can already max-out with solid performance.

    I top at 60 fps (always have vsync on) in Fallout 3 and almost never drop.
    L4D, I'm almost always around 60 fps, but when there's a ton of action sometimes I drop in the 40's, which is a bit odd compared to Fallout 3, which is far superior in visuals (cant explain that one).
    HL2, always maxed at 60 fps with only few exceptions.

    But, between the massive performance difference, which should always keep me at a solid 60fps, and the fact that ATi's visuals have always seemed a little better to me (though I've been using Nvidia for years now), I'd have to say... seems worth the move.
     
  9. anthrex

    anthrex [H]ard|Gawd

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    This bodes well for my future video card giving at least 4890 performance at 4770 temp and power
     
  10. SixtyWattMan

    SixtyWattMan [H]ardness Supreme

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    You're magical.
     
  11. Rock&Roll

    Rock&Roll [H]ard|Gawd

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    You didn't give us any pictures of what's under the heatsinks :(
     
  12. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    Did you miss pages 3 and 4?
     
  13. Rock&Roll

    Rock&Roll [H]ard|Gawd

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    Doh. It seems I did.
     
  14. Mister E

    Mister E ?

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    This is the first card since the x800xtpe that makes me wanna trade camps. I'll give it a few weeks until retail samples hit the shelves and we see more reviews. On that note, Nvidia has some work to do. Their next card better be a beast or else!!! lol
     
  15. iTYPE

    iTYPE Limp Gawd

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    Well yeah, if they came out at the same time. That's all those dam dual gpu's are, another way to milk the system. No thanks, I'm not paying for the same piece of video real estate twice.
     
  16. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    That makes no sence. If the dual gpu card and single gpu card came out at the same time with the same proformance what would be the point of having a dual gpu card.
     
  17. Albanu1800

    Albanu1800 Limp Gawd

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    What a great review thanks Kyle and Brent.
     
  18. magictoaster

    magictoaster Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the great (as usual) review!
     
  19. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Great review as always

    The blurring with Super Sampling reminds me of nvidia's 2x Quincunx, I recall a game that used its own super sampling via shaders, can't remember its name. It also blurred textures a lot.

    I think its been a while since there was an issue with AF, quality and speed wise. Other than the circles I've seen no IQ difference in the review.
     
  20. Monkeypillow

    Monkeypillow Gawd

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    Awesome. Though I think I'll hang on to my GTX 260s for at least this part of the generation.
     
  21. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza [H]ardness Supreme

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    Im not. over here in the UK a 4870x2 is ceaper then a 5870 and performs near enough the same.
     
  22. ZerazaX

    ZerazaX [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, if DX11 really does provide a performance boost, we might see the 58xx's lead over previous gen's increase even more:

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Atech

    Atech 2[H]4U

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    This is adding to the game:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyKCM-Bpuw
     
  24. Atech

    Atech 2[H]4U

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    Show me scripted PhysX GPU physics?

    I would rather play the game like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyKCM-Bpuw

    Than like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujf6P6iGcfc
     
  25. Mer1

    Mer1 n00b

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    Regarding the SSAA bluriness I have found this @ PCGH 5870 review:
    There are also screenshots showing the difference between default and adjusted LOD.

    In another review there is a comparison between SSAA 2x/4x/8x modes on R870 and GT 200 in Oblivion and FEAR.
    Basically Ati SSAA(RGSSAA) mode is better than the one used by Nvidia (OGSSAA) but you have to change the LOD. Bug or a feature?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  26. ihira

    ihira Gawd

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    I was more surprised that the 4890 hanged in *very well* with the $100+ more expensive GTX 285 in the most demanding games.
    I guess 4890 drivers really matured since, very nice.

    Oh yeah 5870 is good too :)
     
  27. Jon55

    Jon55 2[H]4U

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    Except that no one plays it anymore because (despite being officially released) still felt like it was in beta.
     
  28. Concentric

    Concentric Gawd

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  29. Vermillion

    Vermillion [H]ardness Supreme

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    And if that's your preference that's fine. That doesn't make PhysX better though. You and Silus have this holy crusade going on to try to prove PhysX is the best shit ever.

    Guess what: IT'S NOT!

    PhysX in its current form is proprietary bullshit.

    I would rather have this along with Eyefinity.

    Courtesy of the [H]
    http://www.viddler.com/player/32928b1b/

    Shows that damn good Physics don't have to be limited only to the GPU like Nvidia wants you to believe.

    Pair the HD5870 up with Eyefinity and a physics engine that damn near maxes out a multi-core CPU and you're in gaming heaven.
     
  30. psyside

    psyside 2[H]4U

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    Hey Brent does the crossfire test,review come soon? i don't really trust other reviews ;)
     
  31. MrLonghair

    MrLonghair [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hey if you want to play at 30 fps with some extra eyecandy we've seen with the Havok engine in a bajillion games but done better, be my guest - in another thread. We'll be playing at at full details with 60 fps minimum framerates with Havok putting the CPU to good use, kthx.
     
  32. Pretiacruento

    Pretiacruento Limp Gawd

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    I'm still concerned about the Linux support (not sure about the rest of you guys). So far I read a little of Phoronix.com and this is what I found:

    Their Linux support sucks, and this is precisely why I've been avoiding GPUs from the red team in my rigs :(
     
  33. psyside

    psyside 2[H]4U

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    Hoping Ati will sort their drivers and we get like 10/15% more performance for Crossfire ;)
    I won't even mention how good 4890s in crossfire scale.
     
  34. MrLonghair

    MrLonghair [H]ard|Gawd

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    What drivers are on the 5870 discs btw?
     
  35. snowden

    snowden Limp Gawd

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    Why don't game companies just grab a full core on my quad core and use that for physics? Or maybe two full cores? Oh yeah cause Nvidia is paying them moneys... /slap
     
  36. Tamlin_WSGF

    Tamlin_WSGF 2[H]4U

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    That is only a demonstration of how little PhysX gives. They just took away effects that you can get in several years old games. Take a look at this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOmnm5eyUjY

    Smoke, destructible objects etc. All without physx.

    Calling that Batman video a demonstration for GPU accelerated physics? I bet if they removed the cape and called the cape PhysX effect, you'd be all over it saying that "PhysX gives batman cape".

    What you see in that video, is effects thats been in games for years. They added these effects and run them in realtime physics, instead of scripted (the youtube link I gave you is realtime physics as well on CPU).

    PhysX gives nothing special to games and they have to remove effects that other games have without PhysX to try to sell it. Pathetic.

    What are you talking about? I'm talking about having GPU PhysX effects in games vs. scripted physics effects showing the same.

    Like Mirrors edge's banners. The PhysX there needed to have a "with banners on GPU" and without banners at all. Even though the most stupid game developers are able to add banners without physx.

    Eyefinity on the other hand, actually adds something new to the game thats worthwhile.
     
  37. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    Games are getting better and better at this, I agree that there is a lot of room left in Quad-Core CPUs for Physics, and they are very underutilized. One thing DX11 has is multithreading,so driver, dx runtime and the application can run in separate threads, this should naturally make DX11 games more multithreaded.
     
  38. Atech

    Atech 2[H]4U

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    Rigid bodies in that small scale dosn't impress me...this isn't 2006 anymore.
    and none of the physcis in crysis surpasses PhysX:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBc3AR-Dl10
    Older than Crysis I might add...don't confuse bling-bling IQ with physics...

    Ad hominen is not a valid argument....it only waste yours and my time.

    I countered your link, your premise is false.

    No what is "pathetic" is people trying to sell unstable, 1/5th accurate physics as the same a stable 100% physics...and people buying into that lie and even promoting the lie...



    FUD...they didn't before PhysX, it's only after AGEIA that focus really came onto physics and I love how you try and ignore this...borderlining deperate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyKCM-Bpuw

    Lots of the effects cannot be scripted..as the objects are INTERACTIVE *chough*

    The cost of more monitors, fisheye vision, zoomed in gameplay..or nothing at all...all documented.
     
  39. aldamon

    aldamon [H]ardness Supreme

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    Kudos to AMD, but my modded 4850 still runs everything I throw at it and everything I plan on running the rest of the year.

    The low power consumption when idle is very attractive though. Impressive and long overdue.
     
  40. snowden

    snowden Limp Gawd

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    So wait, you mean nobody cared about physics in games before something named AGEIA? And you start off this sentence with FUD? Is that a warning or something..?

    And why can't they do the physics in my unused processor cycles in my unused processor cores? Brent says that DX11 will allow this to happen and there is only one gen of cards right now that support it... AMD's. But you want me to have to waste my precious GPU flops to run physics?

    And what was I supposed to see in that Batman video? Batman's cape? I should waste my GPU flops so Batman's cape can flutter? How about I use my GPU to get more AA or better effects and game developers use up my completely unused CPU cycles for physics?

    I really don't understand the reason to have physics done in my GPU.