AMD's 6870 Coming in November - Will obliterate the Competition?

Lord_Exodia

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Interesting, saying High end as soon as November dual core Antilles may come out before end of december unless demand for 6870 is insane then they'll postpone it a month or 2.

My main hope is that they fix the multi card drivers, my next rig will come from this generation of GPU's either 6000 or Fermi Refresh. I plan on 2 or 3 watercooled of either.

Hardware counts but not if it's gimped by bad drivers. Looking forward to see what happens. :p
 

ShuttleLuv

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If the drivers still need a patch daily and act like the 5XXX drivers with games, then count me out. Good hardware, drivers still not up to par in my opinion.
 

kllrnohj

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If the drivers still need a patch daily and act like the 5XXX drivers with games, then count me out. Good hardware, drivers still not up to par in my opinion.

I'm a fan of single cards, and 5xxx drivers are rock solid in that area. Only crossfire is where things start getting iffy.
 

ShuttleLuv

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I had a 5870. Thats your opinion. I agree things work better in single card situations.....crossfire is so broken still. But it still was not perfect. This old 7900GS im using with 260XX drivers is working more solid in 2d and 3d honestly.
 

IRSmurf

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I had a 5870. Thats your opinion. I agree things work better in single card situations.....crossfire is so broken still. But it still was not perfect. This old 7900GS im using with 260XX drivers is working more solid in 2d and 3d honestly.

:eek:
 

ShuttleLuv

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Yes 3d games, however 10 fps they run, don't go to a blue, grey, or white screen with checkerboard patterns.
 

MrC4

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I am excited to see that the higher end next gen cards are coming out before Thanksgiving. Recent reports were showing in early 2011, but it looks like an early Christmas for me!
 

shansoft

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Yes 3d games, however 10 fps they run, don't go to a blue, grey, or white screen with checkerboard patterns.

And yet, GTX 400 series also have issue with random black screen in 2D ... :p

Good luck on that when you get the new card... :D
 

Tolyngee

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It is due out really soon and should obliterate the competition.

Sad thing is that if they had decent drivers, they'd already be obliterating the competition with their current hardware.

Now I'm seriously starting to wonder if they're purposely gimping current hardware to encourage current customers to buy their next gen hardware.
 
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I haven't posted on [H] much lately due to rampant fanboyism here (you can find me at AT now), but I figured you guys might want to know the following:

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-125814-1-1.html

According to nApoleon, who has been accurate in his leaks before, the speed hierachy is as follows:

5870 > Barts XT > 5850 > Barts Pro > GTX460

(translated by Mindfury at B3D) http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1475780&postcount=2131

This probably means that we'll see decent-to-good pricing for Barts, since NV has been preemptively lowering prices on GTX460s. It also means the whole "Barts XT as fast or faster than 5870" rumor is less plausible to me. If nApoleon is right, then I'm guessing launch prices will be ~$199 for Barts Pro and $229-239 for Barts XT.

There might not be as much of a price war with Cayman, though, if we see a speed ranking like:

Cayman XT > GTX 480/Cayman Pro > GTX 470

Cayman XT will be in its own speed class as a single-GPU and have halo product pricing, no doubt (I'm guessing $399 at launch). Cayman Pro might trade blows with a GTX 480, so you might think that there would be a price war at that performance level, until you consider how much it costs to make GTX 480s. So I'm guessing Cayman Pro will end up costing something like $329 at launch, with rebates soon to follow if nobody buys it.

Competition is good for prices, so I hope fanboys of all colors are happy with HD6xxx... even if you only buy green cards, HD6xxx will likely push NV card prices down, which benefits you! :)
 

IRSmurf

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<Whatever it takes to say ATI > NVIDIA, just like everything else I posted on my short stint at [H]> <If you all won't agree with me, I will go to another forum where people have similar opinions!>

butthurt.png


Bon voyage. I'll miss working so hard to convince gamers a 5770 may not fulfill their needs, that performance per dollar may not be the very most important factor in GPUs, and that stock clock vs factory oc are perfectly comparable when the cards are the same price.
 
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RamonGTP

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Yes 3d games, however 10 fps they run, don't go to a blue, grey, or white screen with checkerboard patterns.

Sounds like an isolated problem to me. I've owned a 5870 since the day they were released (plus shipping time) and never once experienced any of those. I've also built dozens of computers using 58xx and 57xx cards with none of those issues.
 
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butthurt.png


Bon voyage. I'll miss working so hard to convince gamers a 5770 may not fulfill their needs, that performance per dollar may not be the very most important factor in GPUs, and that stock clock vs factory oc are perfectly comparable when the cards are the same price.

You're just a run of the mill NV fanboy jerk; don't flatter yourself. The fact that mods let you get away with this kind of crap (see quote above) is one reason why I dislike the Video forum here. In previous threads, you used oc'd GTX460 1GB numbers to compare to stock 5830 and 5770 clocks, while labeling them as if they were GTX460 768MB numbers, among some of the disingenuous crap you've pulled. (It had nothing to do with comparing cards at the same price, I specifically talked about stock 5830 speeds vs stock 460GTX 768MB speeds and you just spewed green FUD as usual.) Until I called you out on it, you didn't give a damn what people's needs are (even if they clearly just need a 5770 or less), or power supplies can handle or anything, you will recommend only green, so what's the point of debating anything with you? When GTX460s fell in price I marveled repeatedly on here that their price/perf was approaching parity with 5770s and recommended 460s a lot more. Why is that? Because unlike you I'm not a fanboy, I recommend based on people's needs and don't care if it's red/green unless their needs dictate it (e.g., they must have PhysX or CUDA).

Your post that I'm quoting kind of sums up how crude and classless you are. And you apparently edited your post, which makes me wonder just how much cruder and classless it was before. If I retorted in your juvenile style--which apparently includes idiotic "butthurt.png" graphics--I'd wish that your cards would die of bad bumps or a bad NV driver burning up the cards like the one NV released earlier this year, or whatever, but what's the point of responding at all? I feel like I've wasted enough time responding to your trolling as it is. Have fun with the other fanboys on Video Cards forum, kid. Your antics would earn you a ban at other forums.
 

Brackle

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If the drivers still need a patch daily and act like the 5XXX drivers with games, then count me out. Good hardware, drivers still not up to par in my opinion.

Drivers are perfectly fine. Been using the 5870 since last Sept. I did have the GSOD issue, but I RMA'd to XFX and got a replacement, havent had an issue since.

Now the only thing Driver wise ATI needs to fix is Crossfire Scaling. It totally sucks compared to Nvidia's SLI solution.
 

Valset

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to everyone complaining about the drivers / crossfire: the 5800 sucked for some unknown (or undisclosed) reason but crossfire along the rest of the series was awesome. unless they intro the same bug I should hope that the process doesn't continute
 

Tolyngee

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Drivers are perfectly fine. Been using the 5870 since last Sept. I did have the GSOD issue, but I RMA'd to XFX and got a replacement, havent had an issue since.

I also had the original 5870, an XFX XXX card.

Went through six months of GSOD hell. Since I could never figure out a pattern to it all, I never RMAed the card, as I was never convinced it was hardware.

In the end, it wasn't the card, so indeed it wasn't a hardware issue, so an RMA would not have worked. But it also wasn't my system, and wasn't something that was an issue with my Nvidia config that replaced my 5870 card.

So, I can only blame AMD's software dept. Not aware the core issue was ever fixed. (The card would somehow manually over-volt itself wildly 'til it GSODed. The first indication this was going on was the fan would stop working in a game, and it would overheat, 'til it GSODed. But, it would still randomly GSOD at the desktop. Solving what was causing the over-volt in the first place solved it all, but since it was software and could keep it from never happening by running/non running certain software, well, what a joke...)

Now the only thing Driver wise ATI needs to fix is Crossfire Scaling. It totally sucks compared to Nvidia's SLI solution.

Due to this I fully expect that Nvidia will keep the multi-GPU/card crown... No reason to go ATI if you're GTX 480 tri-SLI... (if you're only SLI like me, buy a third GTX 480)
 

Brackle

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I also had the original 5870, an XFX XXX card.

Went through six months of GSOD hell. Since I could never figure out a pattern to it all, I never RMAed the card, as I was never convinced it was hardware.

In the end, it wasn't the card, so indeed it wasn't a hardware issue, so an RMA would not have worked. But it also wasn't my system, and wasn't something that was an issue with my Nvidia config that replaced my 5870 card.

So, I can only blame AMD's software dept. Not aware the core issue was ever fixed. (The card would somehow manually over-volt itself wildly 'til it GSODed. The first indication this was going on was the fan would stop working in a game, and it would overheat, 'til it GSODed. But, it would still randomly GSOD at the desktop. Solving what was causing the over-volt in the first place solved it all, but since it was software and could keep it from never happening by running/non running certain software, well, what a joke...)



Due to this I fully expect that Nvidia will keep the multi-GPU/card crown... No reason to go ATI if you're GTX 480 tri-SLI... (if you're only SLI like me, buy a third GTX 480)

Wait you had the issue, didnt RMA it, but you said it wasnt the hardware?....so went with Nvidia and it hasnt happen since.

/facepalm
 

Tolyngee

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What is with this obsession of yours? You shoehorn it into every thread. It has moved beyond "annoying" and now is edging into the "weird" category.

Nope. Not at all. Poor multi-GPU scaling has obviously nothing to do with GSODs.

I haven't had a GSOD in three months. So, dig deeper into my post history, if you have that much free time...

(Bothers me that GSODs and poor multi-GPU scaling isn't "annoying" to users, though... Obviously our expectations of our hardware manufs has lowered considerably...)

Weird that you are paying that much attention to my posts, though. Didn't know you cared so much. <3

But, I care about potential buyers of AMD junk. Both my GSOD issue (to my knowledge) and the scaling issues haven't been fixed, and the new tech is about to come out. Why the hell would you expect anything different on their new cards? It's the definition of insanity.
 

Tolyngee

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Wait you had the issue, didnt RMA it, but you said it wasnt the hardware?....so went with Nvidia and it hasnt happen since.

/facepalm

Reading comprehension FTW. (I'm learning to expect this of the AMD fans, though...)

I figured out the issue prior to going with Nvidia.

But there was no complete fix. It was caused by software. AMD never fixed it. The card would over-volt on its own due to software.

The software does not do the same to the Nvidia config.
 

fattypants

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Weird that you are paying that much attention to my posts, though. Didn't know you cared so much. <3

Some of us just enjoy having conversations on the internet, but you keep butting in with the same off-topic nonsense every time we do. It's like striking up a meaningful conversation with a friend, then someone runs up to us with a foghorn and keeps blasting it by us.

Us: Hey, I'm looking forward to this new product from AMD! What do you think abou...
You: RAAAR PIECE OF SHIT ATI NVIDIA IS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT GSODS BLARRRRGH MY THREE 5870s WERE CRAP AND ATI IS CRAP

I'm not "paying attention to the foghorn" so much as I'm just expressing frustration with its ubiquity. Don't give yourself too much credit.
 

covertash

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Weird that you are paying that much attention to my posts, though. Didn't know you cared so much. <3

It's kind of hard to ignore when you see the same drivel being posted on every possible AMD related (and even non-related) thread. :rolleyes:

But, I care about potential buyers of AMD junk. Both my GSOD issue (to my knowledge) and the scaling issues haven't been fixed, and the new tech is about to come out. Why the hell would you expect anything different on their new cards? It's the definition of insanity.

How could you possibly know anything about the new hardware and its drivers before it's even released? Psychic aren't we? ;)

Think about it, should people who were burned (literally) by Nvidia drivers that ruined their cards go on a posting rampage spewing the same rhetoric in every possible thread that has to do with future generations of Nvidia hardware?

So it didn't work for you. Sorry that happened to you, but be glad that you were able to move on and find something that worked. Can you imagine someone who shared the same grief as you over GSOD's only to move over to the Nvidia side to have the drivers burn up their card? :eek: I can't imagine the shit storm of posting then...
 

bAMtan2

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blah blah blah. there is not much worthwhile in this thread except the prediction that the new ati parts will own. this shit is a YEAR after the 5000 series started coming out. A YEAR
 

OFaceSIG

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I don't care how "bad" the drivers are. I wouldn't use my old 7800GS versus a brand new 5870. Ur nutso bro.
 

IRSmurf

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You're just a run of the mill NV fanboy jerk; don't flatter yourself. The fact that mods let you get away with this kind of crap (see quote above) is one reason why I dislike the Video forum here. In previous threads, you used oc'd GTX460 1GB numbers to compare to stock 5830 and 5770 clocks, while labeling them as if they were GTX460 768MB numbers, among some of the disingenuous crap you've pulled. (It had nothing to do with comparing cards at the same price, I specifically talked about stock 5830 speeds vs stock 460GTX 768MB speeds and you just spewed green FUD as usual.)
Yea... that's the point. When the cards are the same price, why would you compare a stock 460 to a 5770, instead of a factory OC 460? Answer: To put the 460 at a disadvantage. Factory OC, when available for the same price as stock, is perfectly comparable when recommending cards for an immediate build.

Until I called you out on it, you didn't give a damn what people's needs are (even if they clearly just need a 5770 or less), or power supplies can handle or anything, you will recommend only green, so what's the point of debating anything with you?
That's baseless. I don't know what you're talking about.

When GTX460s fell in price I marveled repeatedly on here that their price/perf was approaching parity with 5770s and recommended 460s a lot more. Why is that? Because unlike you I'm not a fanboy, I recommend based on people's needs and don't care if it's red/green unless their needs dictate it (e.g., they must have PhysX or CUDA).
What I am guilty of is encouraging people to slightly increase their GPU budget in exchange for a large return on performance. The GTX 460 can be bought for $150 or $300 in SLI, today, and deals pop up every week. You could call me a fanboy if I recommended the GTX 250 over a 5770, but that is not the case. If the 6xxx equivalent of the 5770 matched the performance and price of the GTX 460, I would go with NVIDIA due their superior drivers. I guess that means I have a little fanboy in me... or maybe I've just heard one too many horror stories.

Your post that I'm quoting kind of sums up how crude and classless you are. And you apparently edited your post, which makes me wonder just how much cruder and classless it was before. If I retorted in your juvenile style--which apparently includes idiotic "butthurt.png" graphics--I'd wish that your cards would die of bad bumps or a bad NV driver burning up the cards like the one NV released earlier this year, or whatever, but what's the point of responding at all? I feel like I've wasted enough time responding to your trolling as it is. Have fun with the other fanboys on Video Cards forum, kid. Your antics would earn you a ban at other forums.
I edited the post six minutes after making the original post to add the final words... a full hour before you responded. You're reaching. And I like my butthurt graphic. If that makes me juvenile, then I'm juvenile. I see no reason to apologize for it. Also, I don't feel guilty for having turned the screws on one poster who consistently encouraged people to go with less power instead of more when comparing different classes of cards while putting priority on nothing more than price/performance.

Perhaps the mods tolerate my behavior because it's not as bad as you'd think. I very rarely resort to name calling, choosing instead to put in the extra effort to explain why I disagree. Perhaps that's why it bugs you... I make the argument and don't take the easy way out. It's easy to dismiss some name calling poof, but so much more time consuming to justify your own argument.

And why would I need another forum? I barely have time to stay on top of topics on this one. In the past, you have confused trolling with someone whose opinion is simply different than your own. But after reading your last post, saying you can't take the [h]eat, I couldn't help but see you off.
 
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bezant

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I haven't posted on [H] much lately due to rampant fanboyism here (you can find me at AT now), but I figured you guys might want to know the following:

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-125814-1-1.html

According to nApoleon, who has been accurate in his leaks before, the speed hierachy is as follows:

5870 > Barts XT > 5850 > Barts Pro > GTX460

(translated by Mindfury at B3D) http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1475780&postcount=2131

This probably means that we'll see decent-to-good pricing for Barts, since NV has been preemptively lowering prices on GTX460s. It also means the whole "Barts XT as fast or faster than 5870" rumor is less plausible to me. If nApoleon is right, then I'm guessing launch prices will be ~$199 for Barts Pro and $229-239 for Barts XT.

There might not be as much of a price war with Cayman, though, if we see a speed ranking like:

Cayman XT > GTX 480/Cayman Pro > GTX 470

Cayman XT will be in its own speed class as a single-GPU and have halo product pricing, no doubt (I'm guessing $399 at launch). Cayman Pro might trade blows with a GTX 480, so you might think that there would be a price war at that performance level, until you consider how much it costs to make GTX 480s. So I'm guessing Cayman Pro will end up costing something like $329 at launch, with rebates soon to follow if nobody buys it.

Competition is good for prices, so I hope fanboys of all colors are happy with HD6xxx... even if you only buy green cards, HD6xxx will likely push NV card prices down, which benefits you! :)

That's kind of disappointing. The pricing, I mean. It's not enough to make me ditch my GTX 460. I got 3 monitors and wanted to go eyefinity or nv surround. I was waiting to see whether it was worth getting a Cayman XT, but now I'll just SLI another GTX 460 when I see a deal. I hope you are wrong, though. I would have preferred a single card solution.
 
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That's kind of disappointing. The pricing, I mean. It's not enough to make me ditch my GTX 460. I got 3 monitors and wanted to go eyefinity or nv surround. I was waiting to see whether it was worth getting a Cayman XT, but now I'll just SLI another GTX 460 when I see a deal. I hope you are wrong, though. I would have preferred a single card solution.

Those are not official prices, just my guesses based on what AMD has done before. If ATI were a separate company maybe we would see better prices, but right now the graphics division is the cash cow; the CPU division is struggling. So I don't see AMD as having the guts to get into too much of a price war with NV. I could be wrong though.

Smurd, I asked you to put up or shut up; to take my wager or not. You shut up--for a while: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036139486&postcount=92 You should have kept quiet. I was clearly comparing 5830@stock to 460-768@stock and you just had to jump into that thread and post garbage numbers as if they were 460-768@stock when they were in fact numbers for stuff like 460-1GB@oc, then didn't have the balls to apologize. Nor did you apologize for posting misleading prices on mwave--posting lower than actual sale prices and ignoring shipping/handling for your precious GTX460.

The factory oc vs stock at same price thing is a separate issue from your deliberately misleading stat-posting. For that issue reasonable minds can differ I suppose, but I think many people would find it disingenuous to compare factory oc'd to stock, when any enthusiast knows how to overclock without factory assistance. We aren't grandmas who can barely figure out how to install a video card, for crying out loud.

I am only responding because you are deliberately casting your obfuscation as if it were something else. Now that I've posted a link, I am satisfied that any reader who wants to get to the bottom of that can do so. It's not that I can't take the [h]eat or whatever juvenile things you want to say, it's that the Video level of discussion here is so far below what you'd find at Beyond3D or even AT, it's not worth it anymore to me to have to wade through b.s. like the kind you post. And I am still active on [H], mostly in other subforums like PC Gaming, mobos, etc. Not as much lately since I'm not bedridden anymore.
 

Lord_Exodia

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Guys relax please, lets not make this so personal. I've had respectable debates with just about everyone arguing but never to a personal level. Smurf, Blastingcap, you guys are awesome and I don't want either of you leaving this forum. banned or for your own reason. Shit if there were guys as smart as you on the same team it wouldn't be much of a competition. God ballances things that way though, You guys are very headstrong and passionate. Respect that about each other and move on.

Back on topic guys... Please

AMD's crossifire drivers did not scale poorly in any configuration but 58xx/59xx. I believe there was a hardware software mismatch that caused GSOD. If they did what they had to do to fix performance perhaps a GSOD would occur. Nonetheless I can't prove that but after reading THOUSANDS of posts that what I got out of it.

Good thing AMD's moving on to new tweaked architecture, chance for them to start over. Also this keeps nvidia from resting on their GTX 470/480 tech. I may buy a 6000 series card but probably not if the drivers aren't fixed in multi card.

In AMD's defense, they have done nothing but help the graphic market with pricing, state of the art tec... FIRST e.g. dx 11, eyefinity etc..

They are the other company I love to hate too but where would we all be if these two companies didn't push each other. If we didn't push each other. Huh?? Blastingcap, IRSmurf?

Group Hug :D
 
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Well, you can go hug me at PC Gaming subforum or something. I have given up on Video subforum thanks to the lower level of GPU literacy here compared to elsewhere. And don't even put me on the same level as that other guy; you don't see me posting misleading numbers or talking or acting like a kid. I can back everything I say up, unlike some people who spew without links in a deliberately misleading manner. My links, numbers, etc. are almost always accurate, and when they are not, I apologize for making mistakes, like I did to the guy who corrected me on ASUS TOP/Cu voltage. Compare that to other people who pick fights and fight dirty and don't admit to mistakes. Like I said, you can go hug me on other subforums or at AT.

Guys relax please, lets not make this so personal. I've had respectable debates with just about everyone arguing but never to a personal level. Smurf, Blastingcap, you guys are awesome and I don't want either of you leaving this forum. banned or for your own reason. Shit if there were guys as smart as you on the same team it wouldn't be much of a competition. God ballances things that way though, You guys are very headstrong and passionate. Respect that about each other and move on.

Back on topic guys... Please

AMD's crossifire drivers did not scale poorly in any configuration but 58xx/59xx. I believe there was a hardware software mismatch that caused GSOD. If they did what they had to do to fix performance perhaps a GSOD would occur. Nonetheless I can't prove that but after reading THOUSANDS of posts that what I got out of it.

Good thing AMD's moving on to new tweaked architecture, chance for them to start over. Also this keeps nvidia from resting on their GTX 470/480 tech. I may buy a 6000 series card but probably not if the drivers aren't fixed in multi card.

In AMD's defense, they have done nothing but help the graphic market with pricing, state of the art tec... FIRST e.g. dx 11, eyefinity etc..

They are the other company I love to hate too but where would we all be if these two companies didn't push each other. If we didn't push each other. Huh?? Blastingcap, IRSmurf?

Group Hug :D
 
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