AMD should come up with an nvidia shield type device for tvs

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tybert7

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I was reading an article on the hdr capabilities of different set top boxes, and then I came across one talking about an update to the nvidia shield.

Nvidia Shield update brings Netflix HDR, Vudu, Spotify and HDR games


Now to me that sounds pretty great... if you intend to go nvidia.


AMD needs this type of solution as well that works with their gpus.


I think they should release their own branded box like nvidia does, but put roku software on it, take a third of the cut roku takes from its royalties from streaming services that get people to sign up through the device. This way the amd gpu/arm box will have the scope of roku but be allowed to do things like advanced game streaming to a tv and support newer features like HDR games along with netflix hdr.



Not sure if using a low powered x86 zen apu would be best, but roku might need to run on arm as currently configured, (should not be a problem as amd is dabbling there as well.)
 
I don't think AMD has the resources or money to start R&D on a risky project like a "shield" type device and supporting software/infrastructure. Don't forget the Shield uses multiple software suites and GRID to give the experience to the end users. At this point AMD would be too far behind the power curve. Plus the Shield is not a huge money maker so it wouldn't be for AMD. Look at the consoles AMD does have. The money doesn't last long and is only good for a small boost.

Nvidia created the initial shield since they had a surplus of chips that were not put into mobile devices. Plus Nv had already started working on GRID and PC streaming capabilities.

I would rather see NV come up with another portable with a newer Tegra. I would really like to play some of my newer steam games while on the road without taking a laptop or turning down the quality on my original portable.

AMD needs to concentrate on GPU/CPU's and making money on those.
 
Darakian said:
They have two. The PS4 and the Xbox1.
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zing.jpg
 
Easy solution. Make a GameStream-esque app on client and server side, with the client being Android/Android TV compatible. They can build out the software and, if there's high uptake, could use that to start a box of their own if necessary.
 
peter@nixeus Do you have any information on a FreeSync or HDR monitor that is 40" or so? If one just happened to fall into the lab for initial testing; that would be fine.
 
You can already stream PC games in your house with Steam to a super-cheap box, and it's accelerated with intel quicksync or your nvidia GPU, if you have one. Quicksync is perfectly capable of encoding 1080p at 60fps so I haven't seen any perceptible difference using the GPU.

Steam doesn't do HDR, but I'm sure that's on the horizon.
 
schizo said:
You can already stream PC games in your house with Steam to a super-cheap box, and it's accelerated with intel quicksync or your nvidia GPU, if you have one. Quicksync is perfectly capable of encoding 1080p at 60fps so I haven't seen any perceptible difference using the GPU.

Steam doesn't do HDR, but I'm sure that's on the horizon.
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In addition to NVENC and QuickSync, doesn't Steam In-Home Streaming support AMD's version? I was under the impression that AMD's GPUs had hardware encoding on newer releases and that Steam supported it.

I have not been impressed with Gamestream to my Shield. Just tried Steam in a less-than-ideal situation (desktop to desktop, 1st using powerline ethernet, second using wireless AC very far from the router) and it was impressive. Far better than what I get from Gamestream over ethernet. I'm now considering a Kangaroo $100 Windows 10 device + Xbox One Wireless Adapter and I'd be all set.
 
Daniel_Chang said:
In addition to NVENC and QuickSync, doesn't Steam In-Home Streaming support AMD's version? I was under the impression that AMD's GPUs had hardware encoding on newer releases and that Steam supported it.
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AMD calls it VCE and yes it's supported.
 
Ahh nice, did not realize that AMD's version was supported also. Again I really can't tell any difference as quicksync does a fine job, but good to know.
 
schizo said:
Ahh nice, did not realize that AMD's version was supported also. Again I really can't tell any difference as quicksync does a fine job, but good to know.
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AMD's hardware encoding when used with a Steam Link is unfortunately terrible :(

Fixing this is one of the things I would love for them to announce with the new Polaris cards.
 
Ocellaris said:
AMD's hardware encoding when used with a Steam Link is unfortunately terrible :(

Fixing this is one of the things I would love for them to announce with the new Polaris cards.
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Is it a problem with the Hardware or with the Valve/Steam implementation?
 
Nvidia Shield has completely dominated the high-end 'HTPC' arena - unless you're adamant on using MadVR or are doing some sort of custom work there's no reason NOT to get a Nvidia Shield. For Kodi and related streaming services it's the best - the remote is designed perfectly, the device itself is future-proofed as much as possible, looks sleek as hell as well.

AMD would simply be spreading themselves too thin - besides they have the PS4, XBone and the successors to them so they're not really missing much.
 
raildex1 said:
Nvidia Shield has completely dominated the high-end 'HTPC' arena - unless you're adamant on using MadVR or are doing some sort of custom work there's no reason NOT to get a Nvidia Shield. For Kodi and related streaming services it's the best - the remote is designed perfectly, the device itself is future-proofed as much as possible, looks sleek as hell as well.

AMD would simply be spreading themselves too thin - besides they have the PS4, XBone and the successors to them so they're not really missing much.
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But doesn't roku have more content access and channel access? I thought basically everything not tied down to apple only was on the roku, even hidden channels, can the shield tap into that?

That's kind of why I want roku access, but on an amd box to tap into people with amd gpus.
 
tybert7 said:
But doesn't roku have more content access and channel access? I thought basically everything not tied down to apple only was on the roku, even hidden channels, can the shield tap into that?

That's kind of why I want roku access, but on an amd box to tap into people with amd gpus.
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So you're suggesting AMD partner with Roku? That would be interesting.
 
It could work, but AMD seems to be focusing ARM for datacenters (the SoC is ~$150 from my quick google search).
They could instead go for "ultrabooks" with the future Zen APUs in them which I believe is what they want to do.

They already want to put Polaris in MacBooks which should be a gamechanger - actual decent GPUs in a Macbook for once that doesn't drain the battery in 30 minutes.
 
Daniel_Chang said:
So you're suggesting AMD partner with Roku? That would be interesting.
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Yes, they should have a Roku mode for all the normal functionality of that ecosystem, and their own interface for other capabilities the roku does not currently support.

the nvidia shield seems like a technically superior hardware device compared to the roku 4, amd could make their own box that supported:

-game streaming from amd gpus (or nvidia if that was possible)
-hdr for both hd10 and hd12 with 12 bit dolby hdr
-hdmi 2.0a --- displayport 1.3/1.4 --- -supermhl

-arm cortex a73 chip or some amd variant
-power efficient x86 zen based mobile apu

These two could be there to cover the bases for software designed to run off one or the other platform. AMD should ensure their zen apus supported high quality hvec decoding / vp9 / and an eye towards software decoding of AV1 streams talked about here

Alliance for Open Media - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I see this sort of box as the ideal box to hook up to a tv or gaming pc monitor/tv that has all the content access you need with roku, plus more advanced features without being constrained by hardware limitations and connector types in terms of bandwidth. If you have a large screen monitor/tv on your gaming pc, you could switch the input to one of these boxes for netflix use to get the high quality 4k/hdr netflix streams they REFUSE to open up on the desktop browser interface. I want this to be the media box to end all media boxes.

Want to mirror an android device? go ahead, pc desktop? go ahead. advanced antennas design for higher bandwidth and longer range.

Total cost not to exceed 200 dollars, ideally it would sell for 100-150 and blow open the market for these boxes as the ultimate streaming box.


PS - I think Roku would be fine lending their software to a non roku sold box because part of their revenue stream is revenue sharing from people who sign up for streaming services from their interface. They would lose out on the hardware sales, but that is not the meat of their profit anyway, it's those streaming royalties. They could share some with the actual box maker, amd, or not, up to them.
 
cageymaru said:
peter@nixeus Do you have any information on a FreeSync or HDR monitor that is 40" or so? If one just happened to fall into the lab for initial testing; that would be fine.
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From what I know at this time or allowed to disclose, there is no "AMD FreeSync Certified" monitors or panels of that size. They could still work as adaptive-sync.
 
Doesn't matter if it's AMD certified or not, adaptive sync is a VESA standard. That's the beauty of it.

The korean wasabi mango UHD400 is 40", 4K, and supports freesync. Get it off eBay.
 
peter@nixeus said:
From what I know at this time or allowed to disclose, there is no "AMD FreeSync Certified" monitors or panels of that size. They could still work as adaptive-sync.
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It may be worth reposting a message I sent off to vizio support (and was almost certainly ignored and deleted).

Hello,



I'm not sure this is the right place to send a message, but it's what I could find at the moment.





I wanted to ask someone working for vizio, or suggest to them that they might want to consider expanding their tv line into the gaming monitor segment.





I've read several reviews that vizio has some of the better gaming tvs due to relatively low latency, but currently the tvs only have hdmi inputs.







PC gamers would benefit greatly with the inclusion of displayport 1.3/1.4 and support on the panel/scalar side for variable refresh rates on the 4k panels HDR panels.





I'm not sure what kind of expense this would add, but it might not be much expense at all, and vizio could double dip into both the tv market AND the high end gaming display market for both consoles AND the pc.





The pc market essentially has ZERO HDR monitors on the immediate horizon, the display sizes, if 4k at all, are relatively TINY screens at 27 or 32 inches.



a 40-50" 4k display would be ideal, and vizio ALREADY makes those are competitive prices, there are just a couple tiny things making them less ideal for pc gamers.



Here is what I recommend.





Create a 2016 p series class 4k screen at 40" with the following specs:



-4k

-120Hz

-support for variable refresh rates over displayport 1.3/1.4 from 30-40Hz up to 120Hz

-HDR

-keep the trappings of the tv like google cast so pc gamers can use the proper apps to access netflix hdr and 4k content outside the pc ecosystem that they refuse to allow since it's less locked down.





You currently sell a 50" p series tv for a thousand dollars, if you have a special gaming edition p series tv that started at 40 inches (ideal for a lot of gaming desktop setups) with higher refresh rates, displayport, and support for variable refresh rate, you could charge the same 1000 dollars with a smaller screen because you added more gaming oriented features.



EVERY other display maker is sitting on their ass when it comes to this market, and until oled gets cheap enough (that ridiculous 5k dell oled) this is a vast untapped market that you could take over.
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If Nixeus wants to get a head start on this vastly under served market, I suggest they get their guys to stop create a new halo product that had the trappings I mentioned above.

27" 1440p displays have very similar ppi to 40" 4k screens, the difference is the gamer gets a wider field of view and a larger window into the gaming world.
 
They have 2 devices already. Looks to be 3 soon!!!!

Called Xbox one, Playstation 4, and the new Nintendo Console!
 
They dont have the funds to do such a thing...

They dont even have the money for a recording/screenshot software from their own developers.

Raptr/Gaming Evolve is 3rd party program, not from in house amd.

so yeah....

Thank god they are giving some weight to fix the drivers...(they are trying) :p
 
balantakos said:
They dont have the funds to do such a thing...

They dont even have the money for a recording/screenshot software from their own developers.

Raptr/Gaming Evolve is 3rd party program, not from in house amd.

so yeah....

Thank god they are giving some weight to fix the drivers...(they are trying) :p
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Basically Raptr has the keys to the castle as they say. Raptr works great. Also AMD allows anyone to use VCE. There is a ton of other capture programs that has VCE built in like Mirillis Action for example. I don't want to go and list them all, but there are plenty. Really there is no reason for them to curate an in house ShadowPlay app when they had other companies building apps with AMD technology to do video capture years before Nvidia thought of ShadowPlay.

A month after the HD7950 launched I was doing hardware encoding of my gaming sessions.
 
cageymaru said:
Basically Raptr has the keys to the castle as they say. Raptr works great. Also AMD allows anyone to use VCE. There is a ton of other capture programs that has VCE built in like Mirillis Action for example. I don't want to go and list them all, but there are plenty. Really there is no reason for them to curate an in house ShadowPlay app when they had other companies building apps with AMD technology to do video capture years before Nvidia thought of ShadowPlay.

A month after the HD7950 launched I was doing hardware encoding of my gaming sessions.
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I will say that, i have use some of them, and they are not working well the outcome is choppy/laggy.
So this whole VCE thing is somehow ''broken'' in a way....
We are getting off topic but clearly the thing is AMD have no funds for such things to develop...and thats bad for them.
 
balantakos said:
I will say that, i have use some of them, and they are not working well the outcome is choppy/laggy.
So this whole VCE thing is somehow ''broken'' in a way....
We are getting off topic but clearly the thing is AMD have no funds for such things to develop...and thats bad for them.
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Mine works fine. I can set it to 50,000 bit rate in OBS and record just fine. /shrug
 
cageymaru said:
Mine works fine. I can set it to 50,000 bit rate in OBS and record just fine. /shrug
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My wifes used it for quite some time and I was amazed how well it worked and the little impact it had for her gameplay, almost zero impact. And the amazing part is that it was with a 7770, so obviously I was expecting some difficulty recording but again there was none. (at max rates for 1080p/60)
 
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