You call AMD and their chips a POS because they operate at spec, and not very much over? I can't even describe how fscked that thinking is.i hate my 5600+, measly 350mhz overclock on WATER.
what a shameful piece of sh**
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AMD posts Barcelona benchmark numbers
- Thread starter annaconda
- Start date
can they save themselves from the X2's now that SUCK.
i hate my 5600+, measly 350mhz overclock on WATER.
what a shameful piece of sh**
I wish there was a tsk,tsk,tsk smily with him waving his pointer finger......
Does it operate properly at spec? If so then you got what you paid for.. Be happy about that. There have been a number of times Intel didnt even give you that.... 100mhz 486dx4.... 200mhz PPro......400mhz P2...... 1.3ghz P3....... 3,8ghz P4...... and I'm 100% positive I missed a few.....
I am not supporting the message you are replying to, but the same thing could be said about your belief that all news relative to Barcelona is good news.
All news relative to C2 is good as well.... You want the name to be mentioned, and its being ,mentioned.
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In business ANY recognition is good for business when compared to NO recognition. The old adage of "bad news is better than no news" is what they're trying to convey. Not necessarily that the bad news that's being put out would be equal to"good news" just that it's better than receiving zero attention because nobody is talking and therefore nobody is caring. Everyone in this thread has proved that AMD is not unknown and therefore has a chance to compete. In the end however it WILL depend on them to execute a winning launch with at least a competitive (if not superior) product. But for now, everyone is looking at and talking about AMD simply because there is news being put out there about them and THAT is what's good about bad news, at least for the time being.
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Yeah, everyone knowing your name and then flopping ought to be good for recognition.
At least few will say "Trans-who?" or "Agei-what?"
There is a small problem with your "bad news is good" theory, and it has already been mentioned by someone else here.
Most of the people that matter (your average consumer) are going to think that Barcelona is a city in Spain, nothing more. The people that actually know about all the crappy news are the techies. AMD's advertising by in large comes from word-of-mouth, the few people "in the know" telling/recomending their processors to everyone else. When news of your processors is bad, you can kiss pretty much your only form of advertising goodbye. Only the fanboys are going to tell their friends/family/clients to wait for AMD's next processor before buying when the news is bad... Nice try, but sorry, not so much.
Most of the people that matter (your average consumer) are going to think that Barcelona is a city in Spain, nothing more. The people that actually know about all the crappy news are the techies. AMD's advertising by in large comes from word-of-mouth, the few people "in the know" telling/recomending their processors to everyone else. When news of your processors is bad, you can kiss pretty much your only form of advertising goodbye. Only the fanboys are going to tell their friends/family/clients to wait for AMD's next processor before buying when the news is bad... Nice try, but sorry, not so much.
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Most of the people that matter are going to make their purchasing decisions by:
A) looking for the cheapest computer available that's better than they have now (e.g. Dell)
B) looking for the most expensive computer availible because they assume $$$$ == Performance and Quality
C) seeking out someone "in the know" and ask them what they should buy.
The people in the know (that aren't biased at least) will say "Hey right now Intel has the best processor, but AMD is about to release a new processor that no one knows much about. There's speculation that it's performance willl be abysmal, but there's no hard evidence of that. There's also no evidence that it won't. So if you need a system now then get {computer specifaction most suited to their desires}. But if it were me, I'd wait a couple months to see how thing pan out." So my point stands. The bad new reminds enthusiast (who guide the purchasing decisions of the majority a lot of times) that AMD is still working on a new processor. If nothing was being said about it we'd have forgotten all about it except for a few dusty memories of something called K8L. The bad news will keep enough market share out of Intel's hands long enough for AMD to launch their product simply because people will want to see if it's really as bad as the news about it suggests. And fewer sales for Intel is a small victory for AMD, at least in the short term. Just look at how many people waited to get the 8800 just to see what the HD 2900 was going to provide.
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I"m not making excuses for anybody. I'm not a fanboy by any means. I'm not saying bad news is good. I'm saying it's better than none at all. It get's people interested just to see what's going to happen.
I realize this is somewhat OT, but I'm curious. Since you work for AMD, what are the chances that a Barcelona variant might be released for the older socket-940 infrastructure? I'm referring specifically to duals and quad-socket systems.
You know better than to ask me a question to which I cannot legally answer
And --THAT-- is what I was trying (poorly) to say. This is what AMD does every single time they launch a new product.
This is just a guess, but I'd be perfectly willing to bet money the chance is 0, nada, zip, nothing... Sorry but AMD is now promoting a new platform. AMD's customers dont buy 940 anymore, and they require 1207 parts. So AMD will make, and sell then 1207 parts. Sorry if that is not what you want to hear, but AMD is going to make Dell, and IBM, and HP, and SUN, and other large corporations happy. You just dont matter very much. Its sad but true.
Perhaps you're right, but this isn't just about me or other potential end users. A heck of a lot of clients from the companies you mentioned who have ageing S-940 based systems would jump at these things to save themselves overall upgrade costs.
There's hardly a difference between S-940 vs S-1207 except the DDR2 support, and we both know how negligible the performance is between both in Opteron systems. AMD stands to benefit big time by supporting its older customer base, you know, the very same clients who helped them become what they are today.
I know this would probably entail two production lines because the memory controller is different between both generations, but the way things are stacking up against AMD in the marketplace these days, they have a LOT more to lose. Believe me.
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
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Its gonna be like the first 65nm X2's..... "Move on,nothing to see here folks ! Move along now" Watch this also turn into another paper launch.Something they said they didn't do at AMDati.I'm all for supporting the underdog in any market I make purchases in,but this is ridiculous at this point ! As someone else alluded,if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its very likely a duck.I predicted 4 straight losses for them,and sadly I am looking to be very much on the money.Four cores on one die,is likely coming back to bite them on the ass.What was it that top Intel engineer said about trying to do a die shrink,and do a new architecture in the same switch ? Not to mention one that is Monolithic 4 core on one die !!
Creating a perfect storm ? Why go out of ones way to shoot yourself in the foot ? Can you guys imagine the stress the engineers in charge of Brecelona production must be under right now ? Monday,Thursday,and 4 days after the cuts especially will be very interesting days.
That would be impressive if it were an actual result. That's just AMD's estimation of a Specfp_rate score for a product that doesn't even have an *estimated* ship date yet. Integer performance is pretty much tied between Intel's actual spec results vs AMD's estimation of that same vapor processor, contradicting AMD's claim that Barcelona was 20% faster.CoW]8(0);1031267458 said:
As someone else pointed out, the current K8 Opterons should be faster than NGMA Xeons if the (free for all compiler optimization) Specfp_rate results translated into real-world performance. Example: Opteron 2222 (3GHz) 2P vs Xeon 5160 (3GHz) 2P
52.1 http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2007q2/cpu2006-20070319-00685.html
43.9 http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2007q2/cpu2006-20070612-01272.html
Barcelona will probably have a significant edge in Specfp_rate and HPC applications clock for clock, but as one analyst put it, that buys AMD an edge in 2% of the server market.
Price is again going to be their only hope, as the price list for Barcelona shows. AMD is going to be entering the quad core race at a 50% clock deficit, so even with their rosiest predictions they can only tie Intel. Unfortunately (for AMD), Intel is shipping faster Penryn-based Xeons in a few months and Nehalem starts production next year.
Perhaps you're right, but this isn't just about me or other potential end users. A heck of a lot of clients from the companies you mentioned who have ageing S-940 based systems would jump at these things to save themselves overall upgrade costs.
There's hardly a difference between S-940 vs S-1207 except the DDR2 support, and we both know how negligible the performance is between both in Opteron systems. AMD stands to benefit big time by supporting its older customer base, you know, the very same clients who helped them become what they are today.
I know this would probably entail two production lines because the memory controller is different between both generations, but the way things are stacking up against AMD in the marketplace these days, they have a LOT more to lose. Believe me.
I think one of the mistakes that consumers make is they assume that --they-- are AMD's customers... The truth is that they are not. You buy your parts from a retailer, and you are the retailers customer. If you have a problem you deal with the retailer. In the same vein when you buy systems, your dealing with a SI like Dell, or IBM, or HP, or SUN. these companies have enough stock of 940 parts to satisfy demand of its customers. If someone needs to replace a 940 part they will have the stock to do it.
In the mean time these SI have moved on to DDR2. Why? Becouse it is --cheaper for them-- to buy one type of memry for all of it's product lines. Same reason they use the same harddrive, or the same burners.... So when it comes time to upgrade, they will want you to upgrade to DDR2... --becouse its cheaper for them-- You are there customer.... They are AMD's customer, and AMD will make them happy.
I dont know where you've been, but clearly not here....
Barcelona is --not-- on a new process. They've been manufacturing 65nm for quite some time now, and the process is reasonably mature. Also please name one single paper launch that AMD has made since the xp2400 paper launch? I remember waiting for about 4 months before I could buy the xp2400 tbredb, but since then I have never had any problems buying any parts. Granted I dont buy in bulk, but I have purchased pretty much every desktop chip AMD has made since the K7 was released and the last paper launch I can remember is the 2400xp
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I believe he's referring the to HD 2000 series GPU's launched last month.
ATi still hasnt been fully integrated. They are still largely running independently from AMD. I'd give it at least another year before I'd start blaming AMD for ATi's screw ups. I think anybody in a reasonable mindset would agree.
DemonDiablo
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CoW]8(0);1031267458 said:
Stop right there. No "buts", read the thread and you'll have a more comprehensive idea of why things changed so much from then to now.
Uberhitzung
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I bought their second fastest chip. I spent extra money to get the BEST.
these little intel-noobs are getting clocks up past 4ghz.
the point is, the windsor cores, SUCKED horriby.
Sure they run at spec, no sh**.
The competition runs at spec too, and overclocks 500-1000+mhz...
AMD just made a bad move, and I am expressing my frustration with this JUNK 5600+ chip i got.
My loyalty was rewarded with JUNK. bye bye AMD, never again. NEVER.
That is of course your opinion. As long as you realize that is the extent of it, then cool.... Just dont start trying to pass it off as fact. You got what you paid for. You paid for a 5600+, you got a 5600+....
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You bought a chip that AMD is pushing nearly to it's limits just to compete with Intel's stock lower end C2D's, and it's their fault you didn't do your homework?
While I rarely agree with dubby, I can't agree with you on this matter, not enterily anyway... Buying the second fastest chip many times will not OC that great becuase it's already that much closer to it's limit. It's also quite well known that as current processors are concerned, the Intel CPU's OC better with the exception of the Brisbane core which can OC almost as well. This is simply a matter of not doing your homework before buying and you can hardly blame AMD for that, much less curse them for life.
And you didn't spend extra money to get their BEST... You did afterall say you got the SECOND fastest chip.
EDIT: As odd as it may sound, I actually did NOT read ryan_975's post before making my reply.
Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
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there is my point.
plain and simple.
Their new chips SUCK.
Inferior.
Poorly designed.
Major Oversight.
Missed Oppurtunity.
Total Loss.
Sunk Cost.
Bad idea.
Mis-Fire.
Galopee.
Made in a Mongolian Sweatshop.
"whoops we didn't do enough R&D"
"This new product launch is failing fast"
i think you get the picture.
Again, entirely your opinion. They may not be the fastest chips on the market, but they are still perfectly capable chips. Before the C2D, they were the best of the best. C2D has since taken that role, but it in no way diminishes the X2. They are still awesome chips... Just not as good as C2....
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This is NOT a new chip though. In fact it's just a tweaked Toledo core with a DDR2 memory controller. So the core is at least a good year older than Intel's Core 2. And Brisbane is just a die shrink of Windsor. AMD has no new CPU's. They have old cpu's that are enhanced or shrunk and are being pushed to the limits.
EDIT: In fact Toledo was just two tweaked San Diego's "glued" together so it's an even older technology. (And by glue I mean the necessary steps taken to make sure that both cores can utilize resources efficiently).
(cf)Eclipse
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DemonDiablo
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StealthyFish
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That's true too. If you guys have been following up, a lot of banks are now demanding AMD raise their revenue and stocks or they will cut investments to AMD. Now that says something about the financial status of AMD. If barcelona flops, AMD is one fucked company cause they won't have any funding for R&D. Intel's been racking in cash from Conroe and they've got plenty of surplus money to dump into R&D, putting AMD even farther behind.
Yeah, no company in the microprocessor has released ESTIMATED processor performance. Admittedly, both Intel and AMD have both released biased benchmarks to inflate their processor performance, it's ridiculous for AMD to release ESTIMATES. I don't even see how AMD could simulate their own processor benchmarks.
And by the way, why are we comparing the barcelona to Conroe? Barcelona is prepared to release around the time when Intel is releasing Penryn/Wolfsdale/Yorksfield processors. That is their direct competitor, not last gen. That's like comparing an X2 to a P4.
That's what a lot of us Intel people said when the Pentium D line came out, and all the AMD fanbois still ripped on Intel for having a shitty chip. An architecture which has been around for about 6 years says something about the engineering skill of Intel and their marketing expertise. When Intel released their dual core lines, they were just two prescotts glued together, then came presslers, which were just two cedar mills glued together.
Orton helped oversee his company's merger last year with AMD, and up until now held the post of executive VP at AMD.
According to an AMD statement released on Tuesday, his decision to resign comes as the direct result of that integration process essentially being over.
AMDs Athlon X2 BE-series processor.
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Some people don't get the point. Companies don't design chips to be overclocked by a consumer, nor do they guarantee any overclockability.