AMD Explains Missing RDNA 4 Announcements At CES

[erek]

“The second priority is that every component on the GPU is designed for efficiency, not just in terms of energy efficiency, but in terms of the things that will allow AMD to price the product competitively—the right manufacturing process, the right die-size, the right memory type. In other words, AMD is preparing for a very stiff price war against NVIDIA and potentially Intel, where it doesn't want exotic hardware design decisions to erect barriers for the marketing team.

The third and smaller priority was go-to-market. If you recall, AMD was significantly slower than NVIDIA at going to market with the Radeon RX 7000 series. The RX 7900 series arrived at a time when NVIDIA had almost concluded rolling out the RTX 40-series. AMD wants to avoid that this time around, and you should see a fairly brisk set of product launches by AMD in the RX 9000 series.

Lastly, AMD refuted performance claims about the RX 9000 series GPUs doing rounds on the Internet. "Nobody has the final driver, not even the board manufacturers, so don't believe performance claims on the Internet," AMD quipped.”

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/330706/amd-explains-missing-rdna-4-announcements-at-ces

 

[Marees]

I am guessing last minute driver / FSR issues. So they are polishing the software now

 

[TMCM]

The 9070XT has got stiff competition with the 5070 being priced at $549

 

[TangledThornz]

AMD is too busy destroying Intel. Gotta hand it to AMD though, at least they are doing both CPU and GPU better than their competition.

 

[LukeTbk]

Lot of those points are just really strange (if the title and the article goes together), how does AMD wanting to make sure to release their cards before NVIDIA explain missing rdna 4 announcement, about none of the "reason" giving are remotly linked with deciding to announce or not their performance-price.

They want (if not a major issue) keep it secret from Nvidia-intel in a chicken race, Nvidia did not wanted them to know both their card performance and price, so kept performance mostly secret. And they keep the 5060-5060ti fully open to respond to AMD as well.

 

[ChadD]

I think we all know this was a wait and see the price situation.
I just really hope this time it wasn't so they could take a Nvidia - 50 bucks position.
I get not wanting to be surprised by a $450 5070 or something insane. I mean Nvidia could almost give their lowest end cards away at this point and loose no market value. Gaming hardware sales account for low single digits of Nvidias total revenue. If I was at AMD I would be concerned about going first with a $500 card only to have Nvidia come in at the same which would be disaster or even lower price which would likely result in AMD dropping dGPU.
I don't care when they announce it really, none of the 5070 cards will be on shelves before the end of February anyway.

Fingers crossed the 9070 is actually a decent raster card. I don't think looking at Nvidia's numbers AMD has as much to worry about as they may have been concerned about. It really doesn't look like the 5070 is going to be a raster power house, and as strong as the Nvidia reality distortion field is... selling gamers on 75% fake frames in their render in the 50 or so games on the market worth playing which will support that tech is still going to take some doing.

 

[SeymourGore]

I think they should've taken a 'Nintendo' approach and stated before the CES showing to not expect detailed RDNA4 (which would be revealed at a later date). That's what Nintendo has done for their past few 'Nintendo Direct' presentations regarding Switch 2 announcements to temper expectations.

 

[LukeTbk]

maybe it was a very last minute decision (for example, in some ways got wind of the pricing nvidia was announcing or not able to grasp their performance level).

The fact they come up with a long list of non-reason make it sound like it is all about Nvidia decisions, it could be some technical issue that made it unsure when they would be ready or how they would perform they thought could be almost all fixed by then and did not last minute, but I imagine it was a strategic one.

 

[Gideon]

Honestly who cares, they will announce it when they are ready to and I will make my judgement from that. Hopefully they will bring back some sanity to the gpu market, but I have my doubts.

 

[LukeTbk]

Intel price point, Nvidia 5070ti offer, going more with the super pricing that the original lovelace pricing, I have an almost 100% certain feeling AMD will bring some sanity in the MSRP gpu market, it is not like the street price did not already forced it.

Late 2020 to the fall of 2022 was a different gpu world, their announcement will not contain the equivalent of the $900 7900xt or the $380 6600xt, $330 6600...

5070 seem to be about 1.3x time a 4070 for $550, that what 93% of an 7900xt performance.

AMD will need to be a little bit faster at $500 max, would be my guess. Which would push the $700 7900xt at $500 with FSR 4 and better RT.

 

[cjcox]

As AMD stated a long long long time ago... this (RNDA4) is a "nothing" and why they're planning a full rip and redo. When and what that is? Or if (that is, will they just bail completely)? We don't know. (talking their discrete GPU business)

With regards to AMD vs. Intel. While it is true is very very very niche circles that AMD CPU wise is dominant over Intel (remember that the vast vast vast majority of CPU sales are not "gamerz" doing DIY kit), do not count out Intel (despite their social media PR status). Intel's iGPU outdoes (apart from support) AMD's iGPU offerings. With "SteamOS" becoming more "public", the marriage of Steam to AMD iGPU could be in question. A longer lasting "Steam Deck" that performs better using Intel could become a reality (for example).

So, while it's nice to say "die Intel die", IMHO, AMD is not in a great place at the moment. But, we'll see.

To me, if Intel would just shore up their Linux support (especially GPU wise), the other problems (Intel more reliant on "newer" compute base GPU wise) will eventually "solve themselves". Linux wise, Nvidia "open" is making inroads, so if Intel can make the mess on Linux better, this could make AMD the lesser choice (talking Linux). Which I've said for years now. Intel has the ability, partner wise, to produce those OEM prebuilts with not just a Xe2+ iGPU, but with an included full-on Battlemage+ card if they want and keep the whole price of Intel CPU + discrete, "the same price"... which would clobber AMD's "we've got an iGPU that's 'close'" mantra (talking all OS's). Intel's missteps with their "our fab only" position ... if that didn't happen, I think things would be a whole lot clearer. So.... there are variables. I see an Intel victory path, but they appear to be "stupid" at the moment.... we'll see.

So, while we can say Intel needs a wake up call... and that's certainly true to an extent. The big wake up call is actually the one that most here would disagree with, AMD is the one that needs a huge wake up call and IMHO is in (today) the most volatile position. But people are "stupid" as I mentioned already. Just because a company can "act" doesn't mean they will. If it becomes a "battle of the brainless", no telling who will "win".

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.​

 

[IcePickFreak]

Well, at least they didn't do another "The Uprising" ad campaign.

 

[Lakados]

AMD is too busy destroying Intel. Gotta hand it to AMD though, at least they are doing both CPU and GPU better than their competition.

For now, but the Nvidia ARM chips in their servers are no slouches, and their DGX kits are solid.
if Nvidia were to work some things out with Valve to get their CPU and GPU drivers cooked into future versions of Steam OS, combined with a team on the Microsoft end getting Windows ARM to a place where you could actually game on it then AMD and Intel might have a serious fight on their hands.

 

[El_Capitan]

What's AMD going to say? We got new graphics cards coming, and our best will match RTX 4080 performance? Would have been a dud.

 

[BravO)))]

Sounds like they would rather see where Nvidia priced theirs before looking like a fool. With not even mentioning it, makes me feel like they do not have a positive mindset about its launch. If AMD were proud of the lineup, they would have shown off their baby. I hope I am wrong though.

 

[Lakados]

What's AMD going to say? We got new graphics cards coming, and our best will match RTX 4080 performance? Would have been a dud.

Well now they get to say, it's going to match the RTX 5070/5060 in terms of performance and they have to find a way to pitch FSR4 as a viable alternative to DLSS4 Multi-Frame, as those are the features exclusive to both new generations.

 

[ChadD]

What's AMD going to say? We got new graphics cards coming, and our best will match RTX 4080 performance? Would have been a dud.

Really sort of depends on pricing doesn't it? I mean lets be realistic and not play in the Nvidia make believe frames junk. The 5070 isn't much faster then the 4070... I mean don't be shocked if it isn't faster at all in raster only games. A 9070XT With 4080 Raster and RT performance at $600 is a winner. A 9070 non XT at $450 with 16GB (confirmed by multiple CES reports from simply reading the SKU label on the card) likely also a winner.

Maybe I don't know the Nvidia reality distortion field is strong and the average game bro really is stupid enough to believe first party 4x fake frame marketing graphs.

 

[Lakados]

Really sort of depends on pricing doesn't it? I mean lets be realistic and not play in the Nvidia make believe frames junk. The 5070 isn't much faster then the 4070... I mean don't be shocked if it isn't faster at all in raster only games. A 9070XT With 4080 Raster and RT performance at $600 is a winner. A 9070 non XT at $450 with 16GB (confirmed by multiple CES reports from simply reading the SKU label on the card) likely also a winner.

Maybe I don't know the Nvidia reality distortion field is strong and the average game bro really is stupid enough to believe first party 4x fake frame marketing graphs.

Given that would loose to the 5070 which is $549, you may need to take that down to $450 for the XT with the non XT being closer to $350.

 

[Gideon]

Given that would loose to the 5070 which is $549, you may need to take that down to $450 for the XT with the non XT being closer to $350.

Will have to wait until reviews, but without frame generation that 5070 is not going to be faster than a 4080, it will be a ways behind I believe.

 

[Lakados]

Will have to wait until reviews, but without frame generation that 5070 is not going to be faster than a 4080, it will be a ways behind I believe.

But the more reasonable rumors put the RX 9070 to similar RT performance as a 4080 when using FSR, the 5070 will trounce the 4080 under those same conditions as it's RT and DLSS performance is better.
The RX 9070 should land someplace around the 7900XT in terms of pure raster performance, which makes it closer to the 4070TI than the 4080, and the 5070 should be a healthy improvement even in raster against the 4070 TI Super series.

I mean yes we need to wait for independent reviews, but I think Nvidia has made this far harder for AMD this generation then they want to admit and they are scared.

 

[LukeTbk]

. I mean don't be shocked if it isn't faster at all in raster only games.

I mean, that would be a bit shocking..., it is not like far cry 6 is an RT heavy title, 33% faster memory bandwith,+5% more cores, +25% TBP.

the 5070 will trounce the 4080 under those same conditions as it's RT and DLSS performance is better.

Maybe in dlss (it has moire AI tops I imagine they count and use less bits now), but RT ? the 5070ti is just a little bit stronger in RT tflops, the 5070 RT flops.

RT cores
4080: 76
5070ti: 70
5070: 48

That would mean quite the boost per RT core.

 

[ChadD]

Given that would loose to the 5070 which is $549, you may need to take that down to $450 for the XT with the non XT being closer to $350.

I think you best wait for benchmarks there.
From what I saw form Nvidias own numbers. It seems highly likely to me the 5070 isn't going to be any faster then a 4070 9 times out of 10. We don't know what the 1.0 number was in terms of FPS. I mean take the far cry 6 number. It looks like the new card is 30% faster... no doubt that is with RT settings set to torture. The FPS might be 24FPS VS 32FPS.
Its not Nvidias style after pushing RTX for 8 years to go and post a non RT game in the bunch. Reviewers are going to do just that. If a 5070 only slightly faster in raster then a 4070. If 4080 performance turns out to be about right for the 9070 AMD has a serious winner.
We'll see... the launch gamesmanship doesn't make me feel all that confident in AMD. Still 5070 actual performance is a big ??? All we have seen so far is a promise of massive fake frame output in the 70 games (probably 10 anyone cares about or have any replay at all) at launch that will support.

 

[Lakados]

I mean, that would be a bit shocking..., it is not like far cry 6 is an RT heavy title, 33% faster memory bandwith,+5% more cores, +25% TBP.


Maybe in dlss (it has moire AI tops I imagine they count and use less bits now), but RT ? the 5070ti is just a little bit stronger in RT tflops, the 5070 RT flops.

RT cores
4080: 76
5070ti: 70
5070: 48

That would mean quite the boost per RT core.

Nvidia was claiming the new RT cores are around 35% faster each between increased clock speeds and faster memory and all that jazz.
IF true then the 5070 with it's 48 RT cores would have similar performance to the 4070 TI Super

 

[Flogger23m]

The 9070XT has got stiff competition with the 5070 being priced at $549

VRAM & possible raster performance may be shortcomings, but ray tracing (which is where the big performance drops are) will of course be better. Will be interesting to see where AMD's parts land.

 

[LukeTbk]

Nvidia was claiming the new RT cores are around 35% faster each between increased clock speeds and faster memory and all that jazz.
IF true then the 5070 with it's 48 RT cores would have similar performance to the 4070 TI Super

According to this:

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/gr...-5090-with-twice-the-performance-of-the-4090/

RT TFlops
5070.: 94
5070t: 133
5080: 171
5090: 318
Lovelace:
https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/S...idia-ada-gpu-architecture-whitepaper-v2.1.pdf

was

ranked:
3090t: 78
5070.: 94
4080.: 112
5070t: 133
5080.: 171
4090.: 191
5090.: 318

3090ti was 78, so maybe a 5060 will have near 3090ti RT capability now, the 5060ti could be around that.

Maybe ray reconstruction will become the norm usage and maybe there it will catch up, but in raw BVH traversal effort should probably still have the 5070 being 82-85% of an 4080, which with just 48 core instead of 76 (63%) is not bad at all, that about a ~30\%+ faster per core.

My feeling lovelave made heavy RT fully relevant for the 4080-4090 class card, Blackwell will have made it for the xx70 skus (and better software like shown in Indiana jones that continue to push it from that side), I suspect the 5060 could still be out of the pathtraced type affair, while they will run the ubisoft RT always on scenario very well, the 6000 series will bring it to the xx60 level.

 

[ChadD]

I mean, that would be a bit shocking..., it is not like far cry 6 is an RT heavy title, 33% faster memory bandwith,+5% more cores, +25% TBP.

Don't disagree there. FC6 isn't a huge RT Title. Still it has 2 different RT settings for shadows and reflections. With both on a 4080 takes a 30% performance hit. It is very possible that the 30% or so uplift Nvidia is claiming on the 5070 is with full RT on. I'm not saying that is terrible. Just simply pointing we have no real idea if the 30% gain is directly related to RT improvements, meaning the actual raster improvement isn't nearly that much... and games with out RT are going to see much smaller if any improvement.

For what 4 gens or so now. Nvidia has used efficiency they have found in the raster hardware not to really beef raster a ton... but more to cut down the die space it takes up to add more tensors. It seems every gen the raster bump on the mid to low end Nvidia cards shrinks. I doubt the 5070 is going to break that mold. If anything the blackwell arch dedicates an even higher % of the die for tensors.

 

[ChadD]

3090ti was 78, to maybe a 5060 will have near 3090ti RT capability now.

I suspect we won't be seeing a 5060 at all... if Intel and AMD are moving parts. Nvidia might decide $550 msrp is a low enough floor for the way it was meant to be played.

 

[LukeTbk]

I suspect we won't be seeing a 5060 at all... if Intel and AMD are moving parts. Nvidia might decide $550 msrp is a low enough floor for the way it was meant to be played.

I think the question is way more about a 5050, than a 5060, which is almost certain to exist.

The 5060 in the form of the 5070 mobile gpu was announced at least:
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...l-goes-mobile-with-up-to-24gb-of-gddr7-memory

 

[ChadD]

I think the question is way more about a 5050, than a 5060, which is almost certain to exist.

The 5060 in the form of the 5070 mobile gpu was announced at least:
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...l-goes-mobile-with-up-to-24gb-of-gddr7-memory

Good point. I wonder maybe the first step to get ride of 60 class cards is to, make it some sort of OEM only thing.

 

[LukeTbk]

Good point. I wonder maybe the first step to get ride of 60 class cards is to, make it some sort of OEM only thing.

It is a very powerful brand, better make it a $350 (a la turing) than get rid of it, I suspect this could be a $350 5060 cycle.

 

[HockeyJon]

"Nvidia sets the market prices and we had to see what that was before we could deduct 10% and report ours".

- The real reason, probably.

 

[KazeoHin]

"Nvidia sets the market prices and we had to see what that was before we could deduct 10% and report ours".

- The real reason, probably.

"We want to make sure we don't compete too much, we want ride this gravy train as much as possible"