Amazon Prime Drivers File Class Action

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Someone that knows labor law better than I do needs to explain to me how this works. If you sign up to be an independent contractor, shouldn't you know that you do not have the same benefits that an employee has?

Here are some of the requirements of their jobs, according to the complaint:
  • They had to deliver packages within two hours for Amazon Prime members who placed orders on the Amazon Prime Now app, or within one hour if the customer paid an additional fee.
  • "Delivery drivers reported to and worked exclusively out of an Amazon warehouse."
  • "Delivery drivers are required to wear shirts and hats bearing the Amazon Prime Now logo and Amazon and Courier Logistics provide delivery drivers with a smart phone pre-loaded with the Prime Now mobile application."
  • Drivers are assigned to "fixed shifts during Amazon's Prime Now service hours."
  • They are "required to report to the Amazon warehouse 15 minutes before their scheduled start time," but are not paid for those 15 minutes.
  • They must check in with the dispatcher at the beginning of each day, and check out at the end.
  • "Amazon decides which packages will be assigned to delivery drivers and makes their work assignments."
  • "Delivery drivers cannot reject work assignments."
 
People are turning into such pussies. Now people are complaining about jobs they voluntarily signed up for.
 
Amazon...but misclassifies them as independent contractors to duck overtime and labor laws, drivers say...
Click to expand...
This is the only thing I see that is wrong. I know this is SOP for all companies in America but this is taking advantage of the independent contractors.

I have to say kudos to Amazon for being able to pull off 1 hour delivery in SoCal. Anyone that lives in this area knows that going any place will take at least an hour let alone doing multiple deliveries. It might be hard to imagine for those living in other states but we have traffic everyday even during the holidays. Think of ant colonies. It is exactly like that down here.
 
Uhhh sounds like normal employment to me.

#1 the time requirements may be a little sketchy, but otherwise the other points all seem normal.

#2 Most jobs typically operate in a similar fashion in that there is a "home base" of sorts that you work out of.
#3 Uniform and required (provided) equipment, ala UPS and Fedex and USPS has uniforms as well I think.
#4 Sucks to not be able to choose your hours but plenty of other places are the same way. You're not waiting tables, sorry you can't just switch shifts with others.
#5 You're suppose to be ready to work at the start of shift anyways I can't fathom why people won't show up at least that early anyway. Also I don't know about law wise but some employers already have done this without repercussions after too many employees were routinely late.
#6 Checking in with your boss....Isn't that once again a normal thing to do? And checking out end of shift makes sense too
#7 The boss (amazon) decides assignments.... I'm really lost as to how all of these are complaints.
#8 An employee refusing to do their job is essentially as useful as a tumor, and is wholly unneeded. Unless they're refusing for literal safety reasons (OSHA type stuff).

Do your job and shut up Prime Drivers, or unionize realize those things are the norm and then shut up and do your job.
 
Ocellaris said:
Last time two time issues with a job I quit and found another one. As long as I'm not being molested or harassed at work I'm fine doing the work.
Click to expand...

What you are fine and what other people are fine is a difference of opinion.

People have a right to fight for fair compensation, you put in the work you get paid for the work.
 
Sounds just like being a part timer at the USPS, except the unpaid 15 min thing. That is some unlawful BS
 
#1 You mean your job has standards?
#2 So? Unless they expect amazon to ship truckloads of crap to their home, of course they're going to work out of a warehouse to get deliveries.
#3 Oh no, your public facing ob has a uniform as a requirement! As if any other delivery company doesn't? It's not uber.
#4 Assigned shifts... yeah don't like the shifts work elsewhere.
#5 Might be valid, except lots of employers expect you to be punching in when you're ready to start working. Not when you've rolled into the parking log, gotten out of the car, stopped by the restroom, etc.
#6 Oh no, they have to let their boss know when they're in and out for the day. The horror!
#7 Just like every other job where your work is assigned to you.
#8 Sure they can reject work. It's called quitting and finding another job.

Why do I have the suspicion that the people who put this crap list together have never actually worked a real job before in their lives? Things like breaks, days off, etc. can be valid issues, but that's not what they're complaining about. This is "I want this job, but I want to do it my way even though I'm an employee and not an employer". Independent contractors or not, they're delivery drivers, not eccentric artists.
 
Come on. There is nothing wrong with being required to show up on time at 15 minutes early. It is to get situated and being designated for route assignments. There is no such thing as showing up exactly on time to work. If any of you are doing this, it's mostly a low end, low paying, and going no where job. You won't be moving upward if you think showing up 15 minutes "early" is considered wrong.
 
15 minutes early helps the boss know who is there and who isn't so they can reassign work if need be. I get the feeling a job like this is probably high turn over.
 
Nolan7689 said:
Uhhh sounds like normal employment to me.
Click to expand...

You are correct. The problem is that they are being employed as independent contractors, which is a completely different subset of work than "normal" employment.

A good example is pizza delivery drivers. The Amazon employees are doing basically the same job as a driver for Pizza Hut, but they are not being paid the same way or eligible for the same benefits.
 
LightingGod said:
You are correct. The problem is that they are being employed as independent contractors, which is a completely different subset of work than "normal" employment.

A good example is pizza delivery drivers. The Amazon employees are doing basically the same job as a driver for Pizza Hut, but they are not being paid the same way or eligible for the same benefits.
Click to expand...

THIS is completely valid, in my opinion. From the posted complaints it sounds like they are being treated as employees but not being compensated as such.

Looks like a pretty reasonable case to me.
 
snowcrash said:
Come on. There is nothing wrong with being required to show up on time at 15 minutes early. It is to get situated and being designated for route assignments. There is no such thing as showing up exactly on time to work. If any of you are doing this, it's mostly a low end, low paying, and going no where job. You won't be moving upward if you think showing up 15 minutes "early" is considered wrong.
Click to expand...

There IS something wrong with it if it becomes a requirement and not a choice. I'm required to be at work at 9am. It's my choice to get there at 8:45. If I wanted to, I could get there at 8:58, the same as getting there at 8:30. But it's my decision when to show up for work, as long as I am not late. When it stops being my decision, it becomes something for which I need to be paid.
 
Exactly. Amazon can not call them independant contractors and make them do all of that.This is a valid lawsuit. Watch Adam Ruins Everything / Adam ruins work, this exact issue is brought up.
 
Actually many states have some pretty specific rules around who can be classified as an independent contractor as a result of past employer abuses. Amazon could be in some trouble here.
 
cthulhuiscool said:
Only the first and 6th seem at all worthy of any complaint to me...
Click to expand...

Courts have allowed it for employees, but I think requiring an employee to arrive 15 minutes early without pay should be illegal. If I'm an hourly worker, then pay me for my time...and that 15 minutes is my time and you're requiring me to be there.
 
Nolan7689 said:
Uhhh sounds like normal employment to me.

#5 You're suppose to be ready to work at the start of shift anyways I can't fathom why people won't show up at least that early anyway. Also I don't know about law wise but some employers already have done this without repercussions after too many employees were routinely late.
Click to expand...

I haven't been hourly in a while, but when I was, I always got paid from the time I arrived until I checked out. There was never a requirement for me to be on site when I wasn't getting paid from the time I walked through the door.
 
snowcrash said:
Come on. There is nothing wrong with being required to show up on time at 15 minutes early. It is to get situated and being designated for route assignments. There is no such thing as showing up exactly on time to work. If any of you are doing this, it's mostly a low end, low paying, and going no where job. You won't be moving upward if you think showing up 15 minutes "early" is considered wrong.
Click to expand...

Or is it a well paid software job? Yup, it's the latter. As for this case, any hourly employee that isn't paid for every minute they're required to be on site is getting fucked.

Time to get situated and have a route assigned, is part of the job and contractors should be compensated for it.
 
Steve said:
Here are some of the requirements of their jobs, according to the complaint:
  • They had to deliver packages within two hours for Amazon Prime members who placed orders on the Amazon Prime Now app, or within one hour if the customer paid an additional fee.
  • "Delivery drivers reported to and worked exclusively out of an Amazon warehouse."
  • "Delivery drivers are required to wear shirts and hats bearing the Amazon Prime Now logo and Amazon and Courier Logistics provide delivery drivers with a smart phone pre-loaded with the Prime Now mobile application."
  • Drivers are assigned to "fixed shifts during Amazon's Prime Now service hours."
  • They are "required to report to the Amazon warehouse 15 minutes before their scheduled start time," but are not paid for those 15 minutes.
  • They must check in with the dispatcher at the beginning of each day, and check out at the end.
  • "Amazon decides which packages will be assigned to delivery drivers and makes their work assignments."
  • "Delivery drivers cannot reject work assignments."
Click to expand...

A couple of these really kill me. Especially the first one. They took a job to deliver Amazon Now packages. A service who's purpose is two and one hour delivery, and they complain that they have to deliver a package in that time?

Working fixed shifts? The horror! Check in with dispatch? What's next a time clock?!?! Work exclusively out of the warehouse? A job delivering packages from a warehouse? How unexpected!
 
griffinhart said:
A couple of these really kill me. Especially the first one. They took a job to deliver Amazon Now packages. A service who's purpose is two and one hour delivery, and they complain that they have to deliver a package in that time?

Working fixed shifts? The horror! Check in with dispatch? What's next a time clock?!?! Work exclusively out of the warehouse? A job delivering packages from a warehouse? How unexpected!
Click to expand...
If you bothered to read the previous posts, all these complaints are because these are indicators of being an employee, not an independent contractor.
 
snowcrash said:
Come on. There is nothing wrong with being required to show up on time at 15 minutes early. It is to get situated and being designated for route assignments. There is no such thing as showing up exactly on time to work. If any of you are doing this, it's mostly a low end, low paying, and going no where job. You won't be moving upward if you think showing up 15 minutes "early" is considered wrong.
Click to expand...
Except if you're a true "independent contractor", Amazon would have very little say on when you are working at all.
 
SLee said:
If you bothered to read the previous posts, all these complaints are because these are indicators of being an employee, not an independent contractor.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Amazon can develop their drone technology faster so then these people won't need to worry about being either ;)
 
nilepez said:
Or is it a well paid software job? Yup, it's the latter. As for this case, any hourly employee that isn't paid for every minute they're required to be on site is getting fucked.

Time to get situated and have a route assigned, is part of the job and contractors should be compensated for it.
Click to expand...
I would say the attitude currently is vastly different from way before. 15 minutes is not a lot to ask. Everyone should show up a little bit early. Not at the exact time for example at 7am then spend 15 minutes to get situated and be ready to work at 7:15am. This is the impression I'm getting from some of the posts here.
 
snowcrash said:
I would say the attitude currently is vastly different from way before. 15 minutes is not a lot to ask. Everyone should show up a little bit early. Not at the exact time for example at 7am then spend 15 minutes to get situated and be ready to work at 7:15am. This is the impression I'm getting from some of the posts here.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's not a lot, so Amazon can pay me for that 15 minutes. That 15 minutes ads up to at least 20 bucks/week (assuming 5 days of work/week). It may not seem like much, but it's the contractor's time and they deserve compensation.
 
"Delivery drivers are required to wear shirts and hats bearing the Amazon Prime Now logo and Amazon and Courier Logistics provide delivery drivers with a smart phone pre-loaded with the Prime Now mobile application."

Drivers are assigned to "fixed shifts during Amazon's Prime Now service hours."
Click to expand...

No problem here, except with the claim that "[Amazon] misclassifies them as independent contractors..."

The case can not go anywhere unless they are breaking some type of law with the employee classification aspect. And if not, then they need to show that they were not fully compensated for tips -- unless the contract/job description states otherwise.
 
SLee said:
If you bothered to read the previous posts, all these complaints are because these are indicators of being an employee, not an independent contractor.
Click to expand...

Being an independent contractor does not mean that everything standard about doing your job goes out the window. Which is what these people are complaining about. Don't like it? Work elsewhere.
 
Saki630 said:
No problem here, except with the claim that "[Amazon] misclassifies them as independent contractors..."

The case can not go anywhere unless they are breaking some type of law with the employee classification aspect. And if not, then they need to show that they were not fully compensated for tips -- unless the contract/job description states otherwise.
Click to expand...

That whole list of items was law violations. There are certain duties which automatically disqualify a person from being listed as an independent contractor and can only be classed as an employee, such as requiring uniforms, mandating the place and time of work, having work directly assigned (as opposed to just a basic list of goals), being unable to reject assignments, etc

More information (direct from the IRS): https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Smal...ependent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee
 
They are "required to report to the Amazon warehouse 15 minutes before their scheduled start time," but are not paid for those 15 minutes.

Their only legit complaint imo.
 
I like my independent contractor job, my pay starts the moment I walk out my door. Then again, my clients treat me like a fucking human being.
 
I see nothing wrong with anything on that list. Directv used to contact out to local companies to do installs. When they showed up at my door they told me they work for DirecTV. Same goes for many other utilities companies that contract out to other places. If we need an electrical outlet installed for fiber to the home we have an electrician that we contract to in order to get the work done. While we are paying him to work for us on our behalf we ask that he states he works for us to the customer, and give him a company ID to show that he is one of "our guys" FedEx does the same thing by having contractors not actual FedEx employees deliver for them. So I don't see a problem with asking a contractor to give the appearance of being you as you are paying them to act on your behalf. Just like people running a booth at some event might just be a marketing firm paid to run a booth. They are "you" while you pay them to be you.

I guess the real issue here is like with other jobs is what defines a contractor and a real employee. In this case Amazon is in full control over the work these people do. They can't contract themselves to work for Amazon and work for another company that needs deliveries made as they have to make sure they are able to do what Amazon ask the moment they ask. So they are dedicating themselves to a job, although that is no different that somebody being brought in from a temp agency where the person is paid for by their agency and the company pays the agency to make use of said temp for a certain amount of time. You are expected to operate as a normal employee of the company you are temping for, however you are not a normal employee and are not entitled to all the same benefits. Also using my above example, if the utility companies contracts out to a company to put in poles or hang wire or do some other job. They are only going to do that one job and can't have the workers leave that job to go work for other companies. So even having some control over contractors or temp workers isn't that unheard of when you outsource / contract out work.

Although just like in the other cases like this my heart goes to they took the job so should just shut up and the case is bullshit. This is like you taking a job and agreeing to X amount of money, then the day after you start you sue as you feel that you should actually be paid twice as much. While some things are done to screw over employees at companies and some things are just unfair, there also needs to be some responsibility of the employees to just not take the job. When you accept to be an independent contractor you know what the terms of your contract are, you decided to accept them. Just like any other contract if you don't like the terms then you walk away and you find somebody that has better terms. If I clear snow out of parking lots and get hired by a company to be there at 5am every morning during the winter when it shows, I have no right to start bitching that I am having to drag myself out of bed at 4am every morning and clear the snow for some fucking lazy bastards that won't pay somebody at their company to go clear their own fucking snow out of the parking lot at 5am. I took the contract, I have to deal with the terms of what I agreed to. These people knew what they were agreeing to, if they don't like the terms they shouldn't have agreed to them and they should end their contract and find another person to work with.

cthulhuiscool said:
Only the first and 6th seem at all worthy of any complaint to me...
Click to expand...

you think it is justified for them to be pissed off that they took a job to deliver things within a set time frame and have to do so? Or that they have to check in with dispatch during their shift? But are fine with everything else?

SuicidalGoat said:
Sounds just like being a part timer at the USPS, except the unpaid 15 min thing. That is some unlawful BS
Click to expand...

That is questionable. That is one of the things that keeps going back and forth as some cases you can argue for or against it being something you should be paid for. Lets say you work a call center and your shift starts at 8am. You need to be at work early enough to clock in, get to your desk and get signed in so that come 8am you can start taking calls. Instead of say clocking in at 8am, going to get coffee, using the rest room, slowly getting to your desk and start taking calls at 8:45. So if that means you need to be at the building 5 or 10 minutes before your shift so that you can get to your desk, most places won't side with the employees as it is seen as you need to be at your desk ready to work at the start of your shift. Now if you are forced to get to work early for prep, say you work in a lab and need to spend 20 minutes before your shift to get a shower, changing into a lab suit, then when leaving spend 20 minutes doing the same thing to change back into normal clothes, then yes that would be viewed as something that the employee should be paid for. This kind of falls into an area between those two. You need to be there early for the job so that they can assign work for you to be ready to start working come the start of your shift. Which kind of leans more towards being at work at a point where you are ready to work come the start of your shift and not 30 minutes after you are on the clock.
 
Steve said:
If you sign up to be an independent contractor, shouldn't you know that you do not have the same benefits that an employee has?
Click to expand...
You can only be a independent contractor within the confines of certain legal constrictions though so you can sign whatever at the time of employment but that doesn't mean its legit.

From a legal perspective if they're being required to do certain things that only employees can do, and face termination or disciplinary action if they don't do those things, then they're effectively employees no matter what Amazon says or had them sign.

kbrickley said:
Hopefully Amazon can develop their drone technology faster so then these people won't need to worry about being either ;)
Click to expand...
Wow dude you're a real dick.
 
Exavior said:
When you accept to be an independent contractor you know what the terms of your contract are, you decided to accept them. ..... These people knew what they were agreeing to, if they don't like the terms they shouldn't have agreed to them and they should end their contract and find another person to work with.
Click to expand...
Lets say you sign up with a company and they have to fill a contract employee slot and require you to sign a contract to work with them. If you find out later that a contract you signed with your employer is illegal, lets say it involves compensating you less somehow, in some manner and the employer disputes your complaint then the court system is the only recourse. Or do you believe you should continue to do something in a manner that you know is illegal and continue to work for less?

Also it should be noted that contracts aren't written in stone and are renegotiated all the time between different parties. If someone wanted to change their contract its perfectly legit to go through the courts and sue if you believe its necessary and the other party won't agree to any reasonable changes. Happens all the time between corps and rich individuals, I don't see why anyone would think it would or should be different for the working class.

Contracts are just legal documents used for financial purposes, they're not moral or ethically binding oaths made before your god of choice and written in the blood of your first born.
 
Maybe it's just because I'm used to working in the Oil and Gas industry, but any contractor that refused work would be sent packing immediately. They would probably get blacklisted by other operators pretty effing quick too.

I think your laws need to be changed if independent contractors aren't expected to act like employees.
 
Or maybe the whole independent contractor thing should be largely done away with since while its good in theory for certain careers in practice its more frequently used now as a means to keep workers from getting various means of legal protection and suppress wages.
 
mesyn191 said:
Or maybe the whole independent contractor thing should be largely done away with since while its good in theory for certain careers in practice its more frequently used now as a means to keep workers from getting various means of legal protection and suppress wages.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of how the independent contractors compare to temp employees or part time employees ... Walmart has effectively used the part time classification to reduce their benefit burden ... my company has about half of the employees as temps (they still received pay and benefits but they are very different from those of the direct employees ... and the job security is very different as well, for both the employee and the employer)

Bottom line is that eventually technology is going to get a point where many of these low wage/low skill jobs can be automated ... a company is not intended to produce jobs, it is intended to produce products and services (and employees are a means to that end) ... as long as the value of the employees is adequate they will have jobs, but if they demand more value than they produce automation, elimination, and outsourcing are all viable and legal alternatives ... a good job is a privilege for trained and dedicated workers, not a right
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top