Amazon Air Conditions Centers After Criticism

I have no doubt in my mind that several of the people who faced heat injuries were:
-Fat and out of shape
-Drinking soda and/or caffeinated beverages instead of proper hydrating liquids
-Too stupid to know better

I have no doubt that you weren't there and are making statements that could be true or false. I also have no doubt that "several of" doesn't mean "all of".

I guess I get the most bothered by people on a forum like this who think they have all of the answers, and are so willing to pass judgment on people they never met and don't know, and dismiss their experiences so easily when they weren't there. It is amazing how many people here seem to know exactly what must have been going on, or what the situation really must be like. The only other forum I've seen people so quick to judge their fellow man are local news channel forums, and those bring out people with far less intelligence than the people I believe exist on this forum. Perhaps feeling self-righteous can happen at all levels of intellect, or perhaps we, as geeks, are sometimes lacking in empathy that we really need to work on. I don't know.

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Mastercheeze, I do give credit to the people who do this sort of work as a permanent career and know what it is all about. I can say that while I've worked in a warehouse, I never did it for more than a couple of years.

Of the people interviewed, the ones I took very seriously were those that had warehouse experience. When those are the ones commenting that the job at hand is much tougher than the previous warehouses they worked at, that's when I get concerned. I get more concerned when there are days that go by when an ambulance is stationed on company premises, and when an ER doctor actually takes their own initiative to call OSHA.

I'm a cyclist, who has done multiple week-long rides across an entire state, in 90-100F weather, so I know the value of hydration (though doing it on a bike at least cools you down, as opposed to fast-walking, as you create your own breeze). However, one of the things that bothered me when reading the article was about the possible threat of write-ups or "points" from getting water and slowing down service. People noted here that much of those incidents were removed or voided --but should employees ever been written up in the first place for slowing their pace a little on a 90-110F heat index warehouse floor? Once you have written people up, even if you take it back, it sets a precedent for what you may do in the future --and perhaps people stop taking that heat break, or getting a drink of water, because they are worried about their jobs.

I also wonder how many of the solutions in this environment were reactive, rather than proactive. While every solution is better late than never, how many of these solutions were due to negative attention or publicity? I can't say for sure, and so I'll acknowledge that. Neither can anyone here say that everything Amazon/ISS did, they planned to do prior to heat issues appearing.

In every environment, we have a few whiners and complainers. There are always one or two people willing to work the system. However, I see a lot of people lumping everyone here into this contingent, rather than acknowledging that in every environment, we also have hard workers, people who take pride in their job and want to get it done --and I don't see a lot of people in the forum allowing for the possibility that conditions might really be an issue.

Finally, note that I didn't say at any point in this thread that the warehouses have to have AC. I'm well aware of what kind of costs we're talking, etc. What I'm saying is there needs to be a system of fairness, that might consist of some of the following:

-Quality ventilation systems to circulate air through the warehouse. Ventilation could (note, I haven't been there, so I say could) be the issue.
-Mandatory drink breaks every hour on days where the heat index exceeds xx degrees. Stagger the breaks among groups of employees so production remains constant.
-Educating employees on proper hydration (e.g., how often, what liquids hydrate well, etc.). Warehouse work is often unskilled, and so not everyone has an education to make them aware of best practices.
-Finally, not having an atmosphere that makes people feel threatened that getting a drink, etc. is going to get them penalized.

I don't think workers should be coddled --I only think they should be valued, as they perform a service for their company. There should be expectations for production --just as there should be expectations for fair treatment.
 
I skipped through most of your rant, but this is quite funny and BS Lonewolf:

Warehouse work is often unskilled, and so not everyone has an education to make them aware of best practices.

so people do not have an education on how to properly live, eat, drink, and stay alive from the environments on their own planet?
 
Warehouses are usually comprised of three sections: Receiving, inventory, and shipping. With higher workloads, 2/3 of those sections have to keep the bay doors open for the high flow incoming/outgoing shipments. With that in mind you can see why its rare to come across a warehouse that has air conditioning with exception to offices that are either partitioned off in the same building or in a separate building.

I have no doubt in my mind that several of the people who faced heat injuries were:
-Fat and out of shape
-Drinking soda and/or caffeinated beverages instead of proper hydrating liquids
-Too stupid to know better

Hell, I've always been fat and out of shape yet I've managed to pull through three Arkansan summers in a warehouse. The other two bullet points, especially the third, make a lot of sense though.
 
because you are not a STUPID, fat guy.. you drank and hydrated correctly and have a half-decent brain (hey you're on a tech forum here). Arkansas I am sure was pretty damn humid too.... just goes to show, these people were just cry babies and going to the hospital because they were out of shape, not entirely because of the heat.
 
I skipped through most of your rant, but this is quite funny and BS Lonewolf:



so people do not have an education on how to properly live, eat, drink, and stay alive from the environments on their own planet?

Did I need to spell out for you that there's a difference between drinking coffee (a diuretic, which can dehydrate) and water? I guess I'll stop making assumptions.

I thought I made a valid point. If you skipped through most of what I had to say, and called it a rant, there's no need for me to reply to any of your other comments. I at least have enough attention span to read yours.
 
The warehouse I work at currently usually are 10-20 degrees hotter than it's outside depending on the zones and lines you are running at. I deal with machine that extrudes plastic parts at excess of 300 degrees and the machines themselves are usually at 300-500 degrees.

It's not too bad really as long one is being sensible with getting cooled by placing a fan nearby / drink plenty of fluids.

I see nothing wrong with what Amazon had before nor after.
 
I'm a cyclist, who has done multiple week-long rides across an entire state, in 90-100F weather, so I know the value of hydration (though doing it on a bike at least cools you down, as opposed to fast-walking, as you create your own breeze). However, one of the things that bothered me when reading the article was about the possible threat of write-ups or "points" from getting water and slowing down service. People noted here that much of those incidents were removed or voided --but should employees ever been written up in the first place for slowing their pace a little on a 90-110F heat index warehouse floor? Once you have written people up, even if you take it back, it sets a precedent for what you may do in the future --and perhaps people stop taking that heat break, or getting a drink of water, because they are worried about their jobs.

Ok, I have replied to you three separate times showing you that this is not correct. Apparently I need to use a bigger font.

If you read the fucking article you will see that the points system is automatic, and that Amazon stated they went in and removed all the negative points for hot days, gave people permission to leave if it was too hot, and told them they would not lose more points for missing days when the temperature is high.
 
Ok, I have replied to you three separate times showing you that this is not correct. Apparently I need to use a bigger font.

As for the points system itself, it is needed for temp workers. If you can't provide the service needed, you will be replaced. Welcome to America with a high un-employment rate (huh, I seem to recall saying that several times as well).
 
The people saying that amazon is wrong here are misinformed and/or stupid. I work for a major coal/ore shipper on the great lakes and i work in the engine room of some of their ships. During the heatwave this summer temperatures above 120 were considered normal everywhere but the air-conditioned office. While we all complain when the heat rises, nobody calls OSHA or goes to the hospital because we regularly drink water at the water fountain and we are all in at least average shape. I work at a job that isn't for everyone and if someone can't cut it then they leave or get let go.

Blaming a company for not adding millions of dollars worth of wasted electricity to their bills for air conditioning a gigantic warehouse is absolutely stupid. If the company i work for was forced to air condition the engine room, there would be absolutely no way to turn a profit.
 
Air Conditioning is a luxury, Vent fans and louvers can make a huge difference in the summer provided they have enough to ensure proper air exchange.

Having been part of construction on Lowe's warehouses, I am familiar with the temperatures. Try being in those ovens before they finish the insulation on the metal roofs. No airflow while on temporary power, usually just enough for lights to see and tools to work with. Then there is the fumes from all the gas powered equipment. When the air conditioning comes on its time to wrap up and move to the next site.

Water is the best hydration with salt tablets for your electrolytes during the summer. I have had to drink up to two gallons a day and still not have clear urine. Gatorade and Powerade are OK but have a lot of sugar. Those energy drinks people are hooked on are to be avoided. Ice cream is a bad idea. Dairy and heat do not mix many people blow chunks this way.

Also done a freezer warehouse for a grocery chain, try working in minus 40 and leaving in the summer into 95+ weather.
 
Then take into account of all the docking base there are in these facilities. We have one in Northern Kentucky. These warehouses are massive. Most of that cool air will be flowing straight outside. Thus, these are mostly going to be be a waste of money to run.

there are ways to limit the loss, High velocity air barriers, seals around trucks at the dock, adding "Airlock areas" where the only outside air is directly at the loading doc, with curtains and doors between the climate controlled main warehouse areas and outside docks.
 
Wow...missed the earlier story, but dick move by Amazon not doing this before. $2.4M is a bargain compared to the lawsuits they would have gotten when someone passed out and hurt themselves due to heat exhaustion.

Well IMO proper venting and fans would have been enough, but maybe that was not possible or more likely amazon just spent a couple million to shut people up.

There are many jobs where people work in far extreme conditions. Alot of metal and glass work jobs put you over 100 F, there are alot of food processing jobs where you work in very cold or freezing temperatures. Why is it no one tells them they need to wear an environmental regulation suit?

My point is amazon is only a target because they are the big dogs meanwhile far more poeople are working in the same or worse conditions and NO ONE cares. Here we are trying to tell everyone we need to reduce energy usage then we go and force people to install AC which is one of the bigger uses of electricity in our country. No offense I realize everyone in the USA is a sissy now but I currently do not have AC, and have not had it in many places I lived and it was fine. If you work outside in the summer or on a construction crew there is no AC. As long as their is ventilation which keeps the heat from getting dangerous I do not get why the Amazon warehouses are being singled out. And yes some people just cannot run certain jobs because they are not physically capable.
 
heh, wish we could get AC at our DC. Our associates bring it multiple times during the year esp. in the summer and the GM gives the same speech on how it won't happen.
 
And this is a big deal why? because amazon hired people who cant tell when to drink more water/gatorade etc? Most warehouses are not cooled for the reasons stated, too expensive for too little return. I mean come on, where do you think most of the air is going in a huge warehouse with bays opening and closing all the time? I have been in a warehouse and it sucks, even on decent days it sucks that's why they had industrial fans to keep air moving.
 
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