Am4 compatible cooler?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by bobzdar, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. bobzdar

    bobzdar Gawd

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    My cpu fan is driving me nuts as it's loud under heavy load while the rest of the system is quiet (and it is also my htpc), so I want to upgrade it but keep my options open to reuse come upgrade time, which will most likely be this winter/spring and include mobo/cpu/ram. If Ryzen delivers - still a big if, I know - I'd need an am4 compatible cooler which is apparently not the same as am3 cooler fitment wise.

    Based on reviews here and elsewhere I'd like to get the Reeven Justice but no mention on am4 compatibility for it or any other cooler. I have no problem buying an adapter kit, but want to make sure one will at least be available for whatever I get. Is there anything out there that is showing am4 compatibility yet?
     
  2. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    I was looking at getting a AM3+ water block thinking I would be same pattern as AM4 but have found it is not. After much searching the web I have found three coolers supporting am4.

    Noctua via free upgrade brackets for most of their coolers.

    Alphacool Eisblock XPX CPU - Intel/AMD now supports AM4
    The manual now shows the AMD bracket slotted for the new AM4 mounting hole positions.

    MSI Core Frozr L is reported as supporting AM4 but specs are not updated to show it. Looking at mounting instructions you can see similar slot allowing for both 96 x 48 and 90 x 54 in the back plate. It looks like the top plates only barely supports am3+

    More cooler support added:
    EKWB
    https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-confirms-amd-socket-am4-compatibility/

    Be quiet
    http://www.bequiet.com/en/am4
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  3. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    As of now AMD has no official AM4 mount standard size. There is some speculation, but nothing official.
     
  4. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    fm2am4.jpg
    http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-46524-view-Differences-in-the-fastening-system-Socket-AM4.html
    Edited to add picture of back plate and link



    I have also scaled several leaked pictures of am4 motherboards and believe the reported dimension. It certainly not conclusive due to pictures being orthagonal views but there are ways to help compensate for the perspective angles.

    Other then that wait for NDA to lift or AMD press release.

    Oh also found upgrade brackets on newegg.ca for the alphacool waterblock and it also works with the be quiet AIO
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  5. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    Yeah, I've seen some measurements posted, but nothing officical.
     
  6. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Yes nothing official except Noctua's "we will support our coolers for upgrades".
    Another thing to note, there seems has been a redesign of the latching bars for AM4 based on leaked photos of the boards. My guess is that is how they get the Wraith cooler to work on AM3+ and AM4.
     
  7. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    from what I can tell from the pics/info available the coolers and aios that use the regular amd tab retention method will work fine as is. any coolers that remove the amd plastic brackets will need new adapters because the screw hole spacing is different. some manufacturers have said they will release adapter kits for existing products but we really will have to wait a bit and see how many do.
    as sabbilon said, all the recent pics of the am4 b350 boards are using what appears to be a standard stock wraith cooler with the center plastic tab mounting system. like these asus + giabyte b350 boards:
    1-1080_1833005487.jpg AMD-A12-9800-Processor-AM4-B350-Chipset-Motherboard.jpg
     
  8. bobzdar

    bobzdar Gawd

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    Thanks,I'll take a look at those and maybe shoot an email to Reeven to see if they'll sell an am4 backing plate when it's released. As long as I can get it later I don't care if it will work with it now or even right at launch.
     
  9. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Another thing to note, there seems has been a redesign of the latching bars for AM4 based on leaked photos of the boards. My guess is that is how they get the Wraith cooler to work on AM3+ and AM4.

    images attached
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  10. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Limp Gawd

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  11. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    That ^ was MAY 25 2016.

    Later Sept 22 2016:
    The new socket will apparently require a new cooler design, which is contrary to early reports (yes, we got it wrong, too) that the AM4 socket would be compatible with existing AM3 cooler mounts (manufacturers could of course offer hardware kits for existing cooler designs). In any case, AMD's new socket takes more of the delicate copper pins you love to try not to bend!
    https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/AMDs-Upcoming-Socket-AM4-Pictured-1331-Pins
     
  12. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    I am guessing they won't give an official response until after the NDA is lifted. (AMD hurry up on that).
     
  13. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Limp Gawd

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  14. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  15. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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  16. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    how is that "your" info? this has been going around for a while now only that article is new and the confirmation from noctua is new. I guess the screw hole info is newer but if its in diagram in the manual its still not not "your" info.

    it looks the the tabs are recessed into the bracket now so that maybe coolers using that method wont need changing even if the screw dimensions are a bit off.
     
  17. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Sorry, I guess i should have said MY gathering of info.

    It still is not official , not much info is new but gathering all the info in one place seems to be, and it makes a better case for this rumor being true. Many people were sure that am3+ cooler compatibility meant am4 compatibility.

    BTW the Noctua info is from Vienna, June 8th 2016 Computex Taipei trade show
    http://noctua.at/en/noctua-at-computex-2016

    WRT tabs and bracket, I am pretty sure the recesses are not for backward compatibility but to allow for smaller form factor coolers and maybe mini itx.
     
  18. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    So we do have the 90 x 54mm from somewhere, but no conformation from AMD. I was talking to 'official' sources in cooler industry about this late last week and they said AMD had not given them or motherboard companies they work with any official mount spacing.
     
  19. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Yes "90 X 54 mm from somewhere", mostly linked to backplate article. I think it would be safer to say close to 90 X 54 mm rather then those exactly dimensions. We have no idea how they measured it (tape measure, calipers, optical comparator, thumb) . I also assume the backplate was from the earlier AMD Bristol Ridge APU found in the wild

    The alphacool am4 bracket is not listed for purchase on alphacool website but it is shown in the manual (attached).
    Alpha cool's new block is just listed as AM4 compatible, not "we added a slot to make it AM4 compatable".
    The actual image of the slotted compatible bracket was on newegg, supplied by modmymods listed as manufactured by alphacool. Harder to control info from that chain by NDA

    I believe the board/cooler partners can't offical say because of an NDA. I think some youtubers and tech site also are "in the know" but again can't officially say.

    New AM4 boards are being made and some cooler brackets are already showing up being slotted so . . . . .

    Wait for official announcements and stay away from coolers that could not be adapter via new brackets or even slotting existing (if you mod) if you want to possibly use it on AM4. Hey when there announce you might be able to get great deals on AMD only brackets you can slot and use. I am already looking at brackets seeing which can be slotted and still have enough material left for strength.

    I believe the earliest Thermalright "yes am4 is am3 compatible" meant cooler brackets engaging the surface mounted tabs were compatible. People, rightly or wrongly, assumed the through holes were the same.
     

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  20. bobzdar

    bobzdar Gawd

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    Reply I got from Reeven is that the justice will not work with am4. Probably have to deal with my current loud hsf until Ryzen performance is a known quantity (ie released) and decide then.
     
  21. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    well that sucks! I took a look at my h110i gt mounting and I'm pretty sure it will work or I at least have the room to notch the bracket's screw holes to make it work. with only 3mm per side difference(shorter) I think most coolers that use the tabs should be close to working as is. I hope anyways...
     
  22. LigTasm

    LigTasm 2[H]4U

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    I'm just going to email Noctua and ask to buy an upgrade kit for my NH-U12. Should only be a couple of $.
     
  23. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    Noctua give free mount upgrades for their coolers. The only ones not covered are special edition coolers supplied with a specific mount.
    "We provide mounting upgrades for Noctua CPU coolers free of charge, so if you would like to continue using your Noctua cooler on a new socket, we will send you a new mounting kit at no additional cost. For ordering our mounting kits, a proof of purchase (photo, scan or screenshot of the invoice) of both a Noctua CPU cooler and hardware components corresponding to the specific kit are required."​
    http://noctua.at/en/support/mounting-and-upgrade-kits

    But we cannot get an AM4 mount until AMD tell us what the mounting actually is. ;)
     
  24. LigTasm

    LigTasm 2[H]4U

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    Well yeah, but they should already know what it is. Its only us that don't. When the chip releases I'll get a mounting kit for it, simple enough. I guess if you absolutely had to have something other than the stock cooler day 1 it could be a problem, but I don't mind using that for a few days.
     
  25. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    As of just over a week ago motherboard and cooler companies did not have 'official' size specifications from AMD. As far as I know nothing has changed and I don't expect any notice until next year .. literally. :D
     
  26. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    mobo manufacturers would have had the specs long ago. they already have boards in final testing before ryzen release and there are already the oem am4 systems available. that is where the back plate pics and measurements came from.
     
  27. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    Top people in two major companies tellingl me both they and motherboard companies they are in communication with are still waiting for AMD to officially tell them what the mount size is. Sorry, but I'll believe them before I'll believe your hypothosis. ;)
     
  28. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    ok then...
    this is GB's am4 board that's been floating around. and that's a stock wraith cooler on the am4 mount.
    [​IMG]
     
  29. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    But that does not prove it is what will be released. I'm not saying it may not be the final sizing or it is likely the mount layout they will use, but as as as we know at this time there is no definitive mount specification.
     
  30. pendragon1

    pendragon1 2[H]4U

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    no nothing has been officially publically stated but that does not mean that the manufacturers dont know. ryzen is only weeks away. if they didn't have specs how would they be able to finalize boards for release in a few weeks.
     
  31. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    You make another assumption, but that does not make it a fact.
    Like I said before, when I'm told my people at or near the top of food chain (people I've know for years and years) that they cannot make mounts for AM4 because they don't know what it is yet I believe them, not your assumptions. I've signed and am limited by NDAs, but this is not a NDA thing. AMD has not made a definite statement as to what the AM4 mount is.
     
  32. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm not to worried about AM4 coolers as it seems now there no indications that CES 2017 is a launch date but rather a date where we might hear about the launch in Q1. Listen to some of the things Lisa Su said in the Horizon presentation. There still working on plenty of things as it seems to many to draw a conclusion that it is close to launch.
     
  33. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    I think this is closer to what is going on. ;)
     
  34. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    Still no official dimensions but a pretty clear indication.

    http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/ready-for-ryzen-2017jan04.aspx
    "New 3rd Party Thermal Solutions
    For enthusiasts and PC builders focused on a premium, quiet, and effective cooling solution or wishing to overclock, AMD is working with 15 top cooler manufacturers and vendors to create an array of aftermarket CPU coolers for AM4 processors. For ultra-quiet air cooling, Noctua will offer both its NH-D15 and its slimmer counterpart the NH-U12S. In, addition, EKWB will offer AM4 support for its custom water cooling solutions.

    AMD Ryzen processor-based PCs, AM4 motherboards, and compatible cooling solutions are expected to be available in Q1 2017."


    From EKWB
    https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-confirms-amd-socket-am4-compatibility/
    ekwb am4 comp.jpg
     
  35. doyll

    doyll Gawd

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    Assuming the EKWB mount is scaled accurately with AM3 being 48 x 96 mm, the AM4 are 54.18 x 89.8 mm (scaled from drawing), well within margin of error to the 54 x 90 mms numbers we have seen before.
     
  36. sabbilon

    sabbilon n00bie

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    I agree but no official dimensions.
    I scales an Asus board and got similar
    https://hardforum.com/threads/am4-cooler-mounting.1921506/#post-1042742615

    Here is my scaling for the ekwb image.
    ekwb scaled.jpg

    FYI, I am now looking to make a custom mount to turn my existing am3+ cooler 90 degrees so I was wanting to make it suitable for am4 too. That is my main reason behind wanting to find the dimensions.
     
  37. DedEmbryonicCe11

    DedEmbryonicCe11 [H]ard|Gawd

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    http://www.performance-pcs.com/alphacool-eisbaer-be-quiet-silent-loop-bracket-for-amd-zen-s-am4.html
    https://modmymods.com/alphacool-nexxxos-xp-bracket-for-amd-zen-s-am4-12546.html

    This is the same bracket shown with the Alphacool Eisblock XPX so I think it's safe to assume the above measurements are accurate. There is a thread on Reddit trying to keep track of all the manufacturers that are offering new brackets/mounting kits. Some companies are waiting to see how the reception is before they bother.