Alphacool drops some new radiators and some new coolant, or is it?

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I am very into water cooling, and love promoting it any way I can. At first glance this seems like good news. Alphacool is releasing new rads! When is the last time we have seen innovation in radiators? Looking at the short article on TPU it does not appear that we have some new world beating rad, just a thicker version of an old design. Now these rads do represent the trend away from SFF water cooling that I think is real, but why would anyone buy them? Given the efficiency of slim rads and expanded fan options, these rads would be seriously niched IMO. Alphacool also announced some new fluid that is eco-friendly and more "slippery" than other fluids, allowing bleeding to happen faster. Maybe that is true, but is that the problem water cooling enthusiasts are trying to solve? I am certain that these products are of good quality, I was excited to see new rads on the market, I dont get who would buy these without world beating test numbers, so I ask my brothers...are you excited by these products? Here is the link:
https://www.techpowerup.com/280792/alphacool-introduces-four-new-extremely-large-radiators
 

termite

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Assuming the same format, a thicker rad always provides more cooling; and/or slower fan speeds can be used to provide the same or better cooling that a thinner, usually higher fpi rad can do. Unless you are fine with high fan speeds. Also with the current gen cpu/gpu's pushing higher wattage than prior gens, squeezing out every bit of cooling a rad can provide is almost a necessity. The options being either run more rads or use thicker ones when possible.

Also not everyone is set in the cookie cutter, whatever is the trendy rad/fan combo of the year. Having thicker multi fan "mini mora" rads are great if you are not restricted to the confines of your case. I would have loved one of these 4/8 fan thick rads when I was running an external rad/fan setup.

I was actually eyeballing the new 360 UT60s to replace an old XSPC RX360.

More rad options are always a good thing, and anyone who is actually into water cooling should always be excited about more options, and manufacturers who are not just renaming the same rads they have had for years.

For the coolant, eh whatever. I am more interested in it being less toxic. Having a coolant that includes anti corrision/biocides etc that you can dump down the drain or in your garden isn't a bad thing. As far as the "slippery" coolant, I recall back in the day the trend was distilled water and a cap full of WaterWetter to reduce surface tension.

The new coolant probably just has more/dfferant surfactants.
 
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I have always wanted to hook up some kind of external loop for my test bench that i could make as easy to connect and disconnect as possible. For something like that these could be nice but it would also depend on the brackets and stands they make for them. Other than that kind of loop i cant really think of anything i would be able to use them for. They wouldnt fit in my (if any) case!
So not something i can see myself getting anytime soon being that ive already got 4 or 5 extra rads lying around that i could build essentially whatever kind of external loop id want.
Its always nice to have options but these just dont do much for me.
The coolant? Id have to see some kind of reviews first. Im not the trusting type when it comes to coolants.
 

NightReaver

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Eh, unless it beats a HWLabs GTR I see absolutely zero point in 'thick' rads.

Unless they're significantly cheaper/ easier to obtain.
 

lobstar

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It's quiet clear the trend is going to be high-wattage builds and SFF cooling solutions just aren't going to cut it. I've seen plenty of youtubers trying to cram 5950x/3090 combos into 11 liter cases that it should be apparent high-mass cooling solutions are going to be the norm this decade. By 'high-mass' I mean larger rads, more water volume, and chunkier coolers to accommodate more water to cold plate interface area. The best performing waterblocks of late have been built around huge chunks of copper.
 
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I'm excited to see the 60mm thick 1080 rad and if I still had my Phanteks Primo case the updated monsta would do the same. If you have used a monsta in push pull config you would understand why. There is nothing more effective and efficient on the market of course it can be quit loud in it's effectiveness.

For the purpose of silence I use the 45mm thick Nova 1080 with 18 SP120 fans. Is it overkill? Certainly. That's the point it's better to have more than enough cooling than to be borderline at best. I barely if ever hear the fans even when gaming for hours or stress testing on an overclocked to the max CPU & GPU. My fans speeds barely push 800 rpm all pwm controlled. There is no SFF/AIO that could do the same.

If you are good with stock speeds and thermal throttling and low longevity for most components stick with the SFF/AIO. I buy used parts all the time and avoid stuff used in such an environment,

I've been water cooling for 20 years, so I'm in it for the long haul. I have rads 10 plus years old that are still as viable as year one. I have pumps and fittings that have lasted as long as well. Buy good and treat well they last for years the only weak link is coolant and tubing which is cheap to replace.

Now with the external Rad equipped with QDC couplings I can connect a new system directly to the Loop in minutes. Swapping parts is less challenging but maybe most important I suffer little build up of heat in my case which SFF builds take for granted. That heat kills things suffering from lack of air flow not the least which are M.2 drives. My exhaust fans in the case suffer little negative pressure whilst evacuating heat or in taking cool air for that matter because there ar no rads in the way blocking the flow. The case and all it's components stay reasonably cool as a result therfore extending the life of the components and certainly no throttling due to heat.

Anyone who has tried to bleed a loop of air bubble understands why Alphacool Rads are great with the 5 to 7 ports on their Rads. The limited temp differential of better rads is moot because of them. I'd be happy to explain if anyone is interested,

SFF may look cute on the desktop but it's like using a moped to plow a field especially when overclocking. That said, I agree custom water loops are a niche market, but one I'm glad Alphacool still takes seriously.
 

lobstar

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If you have used a monsta in push pull config you would understand why.
Oh baby, speaking my language :D You mentioned tubing. Have you heard of my lord and savior ZMT? It's EPDM and basically indestructible in this use case.
1618198270652.png
1618198335999.png
 

NightReaver

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If you have used a monsta in push pull config you would understand why. There is nothing more effective and efficient on the market of course it can be quit loud in it's effectiveness.
That is simply not true. I'll argue this any day that a HWLabs GTR is better than every single other radiator on the market in terms of pure performance.

http://thermalbench.com/2016/11/22/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-480-radiator/5/

The only time a Monsta cools better than the GTR is using a single set of fans at 600 rpm, and of course they both suck in that config. Every single level of higher speed fans makes the GTR pull away more and more.
I'll concede that alphacool is nice in that it has a lot of multiple fill ports. But for overall design in regards to absolute cooling capacity? Nothing scales like the GTR.
 
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The only time a Monsta cools better than the GTR is using a single set of fans at 600 rpm, and of course they both suck in that config. Every single level of higher speed fans makes the GTR pull away more and more.
Also, notice that the GTR or Monsta doesnt outperform the GTS until 1800rpm, the GTX until 2000 rpm.

a thicker rad always provides more cooling; and/or slower fan speeds can be used to provide the same or better cooling
A thicker rad may provide more cooling, but not at slower fan speeds. A HWLabs gts will outperform every thick rad on the market until you hit 1800 rpm.
 
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That is simply not true. I'll argue this any day that a HWLabs GTR is better than every single other radiator on the market in terms of pure performance.

http://thermalbench.com/2016/11/22/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-480-radiator/5/

The only time a Monsta cools better than the GTR is using a single set of fans at 600 rpm, and of course they both suck in that config. Every single level of higher speed fans makes the GTR pull away more and more.
I'll concede that alphacool is nice in that it has a lot of multiple fill ports. But for overall design in regards to absolute cooling capacity? Nothing scales like the GTR.
Ahh info we can use thanks, so maybe my data is old in comparison and I may not be on top of things like I once was but, I feel like you are missing the point of my post for a few degrees of difference I'd rather have the multi ports or better yet the 45mm 1080 not listed/tested in your link, so our opinion of whats better may differ and not necessarily in absolutes.

I know upgrades/new products are not always better but that is what this thread is about, their new releases, so unless you have data in that regard your link is of no consequence except to shame me, so mission accomplished. For what it's worth I was only off a little bit and here's hoping the new Monsta is even better than the last. Thanks Again!
 
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lobstar

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I would love to see these nearly 10 year old product tests updated for actual present day loads. Those are tested with like 400w max of heat load while my system pulls 800w regularly.
 

NightReaver

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Ahh info we can use thanks, so maybe my data is old in comparison and I may not be on top of things like I once was but, I feel like you are missing the point of my post for a few degrees of difference I'd rather have the multi ports or better yet the 45mm 1080 not listed/tested in your link, so our opinion of whats better may differ and not necessarily in absolutes.

I know upgrades/new products are not always better but that is what this thread is about, their new releases, so unless you have data in that regard your link is of no consequence except to shame me, so mission accomplished. For what it's worth I was only off a little bit and here's hoping the new Monsta is even better than the last. Thanks Again!
Lol the only thing I was addressing was the statement that there's nothing more effective or efficient on the market.

Now maybe you meant those words by a different metric than "what cools more".

If so, I'm sorry for my assumption. Though I did agree the alphacool does win on number of ports.

There was no "shaming" attempt, nor am I trying to change an opinion.
 

termite

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Also, notice that the GTR or Monsta doesnt outperform the GTS until 1800rpm, the GTX until 2000 rpm.


A thicker rad may provide more cooling, but not at slower fan speeds. A HWLabs gts will outperform every thick rad on the market until you hit 1800 rpm.

Most thicker rads do exactly that; take a closer look at the link NightReaver linked, as it clearly states "lower is better", the thicker rads like the XSPC rx480 (58mm) out performs the GTR until 1800 RPM. That is pretty much their trade off, niche usage due to thier thickness, but at lower RPM rarely matched.

The bigger issue is that there has not been a good head to head comparison since like 2016, i.e. similar "sized" rads (all 360, various thickness, push, pull, push/pull) compared just by the numbers. The Thermalbench link is missing dozens of available rads.

Most manufacturers have kicked out new or updated rads, and the majority of the reviews are just lacking, or oddly selective (probably what was on hand).
 

NightReaver

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I would love to see these nearly 10 year old product tests updated for actual present day loads. Those are tested with like 400w max of heat load while my system pulls 800w regularly.
I agree. I would love a much updated radiator roundup. It's a shame nobody does them anymore.
 
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I agree. I would love a much updated radiator roundup. It's a shame nobody does them anymore.
The guy who created Thermal Bench is a staff writer now at TechPoweUp. I was sad for myself and happy for him at the same time. Sad fact is there is not enough money in the review business when you tell the whole truth and people don't contribute enough for a guy to make a living even if the content is great and very well propared. I believe it's VSG if I remember correctly.
 
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Yeah i think your right, hes been with tpu for a while. Tbh i dont think theres money in anything written review these days unfortunately. Tpu is one of a dying breed as well. It wont be long and everything will be video based sadly.
 

NightReaver

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It wont be long and everything will be video based sadly.
Pretty much. The funny thing is, most video reviews end up being like a written review anyways because all the information is almost entirely done on graphs. Did people really need narrators to tell them what they're seeing? I'll never understand people who like video reviews more. Written (or typed) word is so much easier to look through and to come back to specific things. Don't have to physically wait for some person to say the specific words.

Now I just need to win the lottery so I can spend my time making old school write ups that only like 10 ppl will see :D
 
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Most thicker rads do exactly that; take a closer look at the link NightReaver linked, as it clearly states "lower is better"
I did look at the chart, did you? The XSPC rad you refer to is the same thickness as a GTX, hence not in the category of "thick" radiators such as the "monsta." XSPC rx series are standard thickness(55mm). It was stated that the thicker the rad the more effective at lower rpms. Well ultra thick rads are certainly not more effective than a GTS at lower rpms according the chart you refer to.
 

termite

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I did look at the chart, did you? The XSPC rad you refer to is the same thickness as a GTX, hence not in the category of "thick" radiators such as the "monsta." XSPC rx series are standard thickness(55mm). It was stated that the thicker the rad the more effective at lower rpms. Well ultra thick rads are certainly not more effective than a GTS at lower rpms according the chart you refer to.

Standard thickness is 30mm, which the GTS's are, I have two, albeit the older gen 240 versions. The RX360 is 58mm. I have one of those in my current system.

I don't know what to tell you the charts in the Thermalbench charts pretty clearly show the RTX and HWL GTX leading over the GTS until 1200rpm. The RTX are absolutely in the thick category, being almost twice thick as the GTS.

Any rad thicker than 30/45mm has always been considered a thick radiator.

The Monsta line at 86mm are outliers, their extreme thickness all but demands push/pull, as a push or pull fan set just cannot adequately move the air though the fins at low speeds.

Incidentally here is a really good although older (2015/16) comparison. Which hilariously proves both our points (GTS being a good overall rad, while thicker rads gave better general performance). Of course any new rad (GTR et al) are missing.
 

NightReaver

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Standard thickness is 30mm, which the GTS's are, I have two, albeit the older gen 240 versions. The RX360 is 58mm. I have one of those in my current system.

I don't know what to tell you the charts in the Thermalbench charts pretty clearly show the RTX and HWL GTX leading over the GTS until 1200rpm. The RTX are absolutely in the thick category, being almost twice thick as the GTS.

Any rad thicker than 30/45mm has always been considered a thick radiator.

The Monsta line at 86mm are outliers, their extreme thickness all but demands push/pull, as a push or pull fan set just cannot adequately move the air though the fins at low speeds.

Incidentally here is a really good although older (2015/16) comparison. Which hilariously proves both our points (GTS being a good overall rad, while thicker rads gave better general performance). Of course any new rad (GTR et al) are missing.
I think the air flow restriction chart tells the story.
http://thermalbench.com/2016/11/22/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-480-radiator/4/

GTS and GTX have fairly comparable air restriction despite one being quite a bit thicker. This would allow the GTX to perform just fine at lower speeds. It also shows why the GTR takes the crown in higher airflow scenarios with it's very restrictive nature, even more than the Monsta while being around an inch thinner.
 

NobleX13

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This thing is huge! Looks like a car radiator, or those old heater cores people used back in the day.
1618362826420.png
 

Tsumi

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I would love to see these nearly 10 year old product tests updated for actual present day loads. Those are tested with like 400w max of heat load while my system pulls 800w regularly.

It's not too hard to extrapolate due to the fact that heat transfer is almost linear with regards to delta T. If a radiator can transfer 400 watts of energy with 1200 RPM fans and a 5 C delta T, it'll transfer 800 watts of energy with a 10 C delta T. Of course, the real world isn't perfect, but it is close.
 
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Standard thickness is 30mm, which the GTS's are, I have two, albeit the older gen 240 versions. The RX360 is 58mm. I have one of those in my current system.
We are talking semantics. I consider GTX standard and gts slim form factor, as they are advertised as such. I was refering to ultra thick "Monsta" style rads. You have to not care at all about noise and have maxed out fans to use them at full potential. Even then youd be better off with a GTR.
 

lobstar

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We are talking semantics. I consider GTX standard and gts slim form factor, as they are advertised as such. I was refering to ultra thick "Monsta" style rads. You have to not care at all about noise and have maxed out fans to use them at full potential. Even then youd be better off with a GTR.
I have no noticable noise with my monstas under full load. Seems like a lot of assumptions are happening in this thread.
 
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I have no noticable noise with my monstas under full load. Seems like a lot of assumptions are happening in this thread.
Not making any assumptions about personal setups. Your setup could have enough rads so that the fans never ramp up. I am basing performance on available testing, not personal anecdotes.
 

lobstar

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I have two monsta 480s. You seem to think the only factor is the radiator. That's the problem with testing methodology that tries to single out the radiator. If you increase flow in the same test you get different results from the same rads.
 

NightReaver

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I have two monsta 480s. You seem to think the only factor is the radiator. That's the problem with testing methodology that tries to single out the radiator. If you increase flow in the same test you get different results from the same rads.
Are you talking about air flow or water flow?
 

BrotherMichigan

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Assuming the same format, a thicker rad always provides more cooling; and/or slower fan speeds can be used to provide the same or better cooling that a thinner, usually higher fpi rad can do.
This isn't really true in general. At lower fan speeds even thick, low FPI radiators can struggle against good thin radiators like the HWLabs Nemesis GTS or XSPC TX. You tend so sacrifice other things with these sorts of radiators - flow restriction in the case of the GTS due to the thin tubes and noise in the case of the TX due to the thin shroud - but they compete very well until you get into the realm of "I don't really care about noise anymore, I just need the lowest possible coolant temps."

As for these "new" products from Alphacool, they look like a bunch of Phobya rebrands and I wouldn't expect anything amazing out of them in terms of performance.
 

NightReaver

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This isn't really true in general. At lower fan speeds even thick, low FPI radiators can struggle against good thin radiators like the HWLabs Nemesis GTS or XSPC TX. You tend so sacrifice other things with these sorts of radiators - flow restriction in the case of the GTS due to the thin tubes and noise in the case of the TX due to the thin shroud - but they compete very well until you get into the realm of "I don't really care about noise anymore, I just need the lowest possible coolant temps."

As for these "new" products from Alphacool, they look like a bunch of Phobya rebrands and I wouldn't expect anything amazing out of them in terms of performance.
That's the other thing. The vast majority of rads perform almost the same. You're only going to get so much divergence in design choices. Only a handful really target a performance band and do everything they can to excel in their bracket. Those are the standouts.
I look at these and see...well....meh. Looks like almost every other rad out there in terms of tube/fin design. They're thick, but that doesn't really mean much.
 
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You seem to think the only factor is the radiator. That's the problem with testing methodology that tries to single out the radiator. If you increase flow in the same test you get different results from the same rads.
If your testing radiators then you would try to, well, single out the radiator. Are you suggesting that in a radiator review/roundup there should be different setups for each rad to put it in the best light possible? Also, you are correct when you imply that increasing flow rate increases performance. However, that is true of any radiator.
 

BrotherMichigan

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It is true of every radiator, but not necessarily to the same degree. XtremeRigs testing back in the day did a pretty good job of fully characterizing the performance of a radiator across a range of liquid flow rate, airflow, and static pressure.
 

lobstar

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If your testing radiators then you would try to, well, single out the radiator. Are you suggesting that in a radiator review/roundup there should be different setups for each rad to put it in the best light possible? Also, you are correct when you imply that increasing flow rate increases performance. However, that is true of any radiator.
I'm suggesting you vary each variable to accommodate different designs in a mutli product test. A radiator with small passages will react to water and air flow differently than a rad designed for high water flow. Even including pressure drop data would start to tell more of the story. Instead let's just test fan rpm and call it good. We don't test video cards with only 3Dmark so why would we only test rads with one narrow test that doesn't simulate a real world scenario?
 

NightReaver

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I'm suggesting you vary each variable to accommodate different designs in a mutli product test. A radiator with small passages will react to water and air flow differently than a rad designed for high water flow. Even including pressure drop data would start to tell more of the story. Instead let's just test fan rpm and call it good. We don't test video cards with only 3Dmark so why would we only test rads with one narrow test that doesn't simulate a real world scenario?
With that large pump, what GPM do you run your loop at?
 

lobstar

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I haven't hooked it up yet. My gpu block just shipped so next week is assembly. I'm moving from serial D5s to this for two systems on one loop.
 

termite

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I'm suggesting you vary each variable to accommodate different designs in a mutli product test. A radiator with small passages will react to water and air flow differently than a rad designed for high water flow. Even including pressure drop data would start to tell more of the story. Instead let's just test fan rpm and call it good. We don't test video cards with only 3Dmark so why would we only test rads with one narrow test that doesn't simulate a real world scenario?

This is pretty much how the old Xtremerigs testing was. Push, push/pull at different speeds, as well as different flow rates. Which they used to compare the different radiators. However they used the same testing methodology for all rads, which really is how it should be.
 

D-EJ915

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This is pretty much how the old Xtremerigs testing was. Push, push/pull at different speeds, as well as different flow rates. Which they used to compare the different radiators. However they used the same testing methodology for all rads, which really is how it should be.
Only thing I can think is their testing took absolutely forever from doing so many different variables.
 

Tsumi

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I'm suggesting you vary each variable to accommodate different designs in a mutli product test. A radiator with small passages will react to water and air flow differently than a rad designed for high water flow. Even including pressure drop data would start to tell more of the story. Instead let's just test fan rpm and call it good. We don't test video cards with only 3Dmark so why would we only test rads with one narrow test that doesn't simulate a real world scenario?

Once a loop hits equilibrium, the flow rate doesn't really matter for heat transfer, provided you're not going so slow that the water cools down to ambient while in the middle of the radiator. A pressure curve is more beneficial, but only for those building massive restrictive loops. Today's radiators and blocks are generally not so restrictive that you aren't able to maintain good flow rates for the typical setup. Large restrictive setups are likely to use multiple pumps to maintain good flow rates anyways.
 

BrotherMichigan

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Once a loop hits equilibrium, the flow rate doesn't really matter for heat transfer, provided you're not going so slow that the water cools down to ambient while in the middle of the radiator.
This isn't really true. At equal temperature, a loop in equilibrium is dissipating more heat at higher flow rates than lower because the mass flow rate is higher.
 

Tsumi

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This isn't really true. At equal temperature, a loop in equilibrium is dissipating more heat at higher flow rates than lower because the mass flow rate is higher.

Heat in = heat out when in equilibrium. If you're dissipating more heat, your loop temperatures are dropping.
 
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