Thats why I went Melee. Beating everything with a sledgehammer was fun.
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Alpha Protocol Discussion Here:
- Thread starter WabeWalker
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Thats why I went Melee. Beating everything with a sledgehammer was fun.
Frraksurred
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After two hours in this game I'm going to correct myself and say this game should have been released for consoles, so they could beta test it, and then after another year of development, released for PC.
This thing is atrocious. It swings from incredibly incompitent AI to nearly impossible computer hacking mini-games (despite how you configure your skills).
My opinions obviously, but I think this game is getting shelved until they can patch it to a decent build.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I thought it was equally the best part of FO3 and the worst. After about 15 hours playing, using VATS when I could, it got incredibly dull. The first 15 hours were OH SHIT YEA.
Parmenides
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Standard Operating Procedure?
Yeah, VAT's is somewhat for a short while, but it pales in comparison to the fun of timeslow mod and aim mod (FWE). I burn action points on time slow and sprint now.
VtMB had fun melee fighting. And the time I did go with guns, I had my shooting stats maxed pretty quickly. So, it was still a lot of fun. I can't remember if the unofficial patch helped that aspect. Throw the gun sound mod in and shooting was a lot of fun. But I agree about the dice rolling. I don't think it will ever sell a modern RPG with guns ever again. A game would only be successful despite the dice rolling.
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General consensus that I've seen is that this game is complete and utter garbage. A dev (who knows if true?) also stated that this game should have been scrapped a year or two ago.
To update my review: I beat it. Definitely start out in Moscow, Its the most exciting part of the game. Disappointing how short and fairly linear it was (its no RPG, it really IS Mass Effect but set in a different universe.) You build relationships through various missions and can use them as assets/handlers later in the game. You pump various stats that unlock special abilities that you rarely use.
That being said, had it been released before ME or around the same time frame, it would have much higher reviews. Not a whole lot about it was innovative, or rather, creative, but it was still a fun experience. I went in epic beard man style using assault rifles and toughness, and never really died. Pissed off a lot of people killing civilians and CIA agents, but what the hell, they shot first.
Its not worth 60 bucks imho. 30...yes.
That being said, had it been released before ME or around the same time frame, it would have much higher reviews. Not a whole lot about it was innovative, or rather, creative, but it was still a fun experience. I went in epic beard man style using assault rifles and toughness, and never really died. Pissed off a lot of people killing civilians and CIA agents, but what the hell, they shot first.
Its not worth 60 bucks imho. 30...yes.
Started off as a recruit.
Whoever(or is it Whomever?) came up with the hacking minigame and the PC controls associated with it deserves a steel-toe boot delivered kick to the balls. Infuriating only mildly describes it. Looks like I'll be stocking up on EMP nades for that one. The circuit and lockpicking games are OK though, pretty well done on those.
I'm getting nailed by a stupid camera glitch too. The camera wigs out and turns really fast periodically which can really screw up your critical hit tracking on an enemy or turn you around and have you all confused for a second. I haven't even made it out of the tutorial stage yet, I can't imagine having to deal with that during real missions.
Also, got a score of around 168 on the gun range without any weapon training. I put a single point in stealth and H2H.
Hoping Obsidian patches this game up. I'm gonna check those ini tweaks, that camera thing is pissing me off.
Whoever(or is it Whomever?) came up with the hacking minigame and the PC controls associated with it deserves a steel-toe boot delivered kick to the balls. Infuriating only mildly describes it. Looks like I'll be stocking up on EMP nades for that one. The circuit and lockpicking games are OK though, pretty well done on those.
I'm getting nailed by a stupid camera glitch too. The camera wigs out and turns really fast periodically which can really screw up your critical hit tracking on an enemy or turn you around and have you all confused for a second. I haven't even made it out of the tutorial stage yet, I can't imagine having to deal with that during real missions.
Also, got a score of around 168 on the gun range without any weapon training. I put a single point in stealth and H2H.
Hoping Obsidian patches this game up. I'm gonna check those ini tweaks, that camera thing is pissing me off.
WabeWalker
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Okay, I bought Alpha Protocol on my way home from work - am I allowed to post in this thread now?
To the guy above who said: 'The consensus of opinion is that the game is garbage." - guy, that's just plain wrong. See my earlier post, #153. Can you not read?
PC Games (Germany) = 82/10
Meristation = 80/100
PC GAMER = 80/10
1UP = 83%
3DJuegos = 80%
Do you not understand the meaning of the phrase 'consensus of opinion'? It means that EVERYBODY is in agreement. EVERYBODY. And I'm afraid to say that, no, not EVERYBODY agrees that this game is garbage. Indeed, there's actually a lack of consensus here. Clearly, people are split on this game. (If this were a debate, by the way, the moderator would've just awarded me with about ten-thousand points, basically meaning that I'm debating the pants off you.)
Guy, what's not clear about this sentence: "An astounding variety of ethical decisions, a wide range of believable, fun characters and a thrilling 24esque storyline make Alpha Protocol one of the most compelling role playing games of the last years." That's from a reputable website.
Okay, you may not agree with that sentence. Fine. But the point is that clearly not EVERYBODY believes this game is garbage. Or maybe you really don't understand the phrase 'consensus of opinion'?
Anyhow, the one comment I will make is that it's actually damned nice being able to install a game this quickly - I haven't bought a physical copy of a game in a long time, and had forgotten how convenient it is to have the disc. Normally, at 10 gigabyte download would take me almost 24 hours. Being able to install the game this quickly and easily is great - and not having to launch Steam is actually kind of nice for a change.
Anyhow, my friends, I believe that I'm going to be enjoying this game soon - and so will be posting my thoughts later on in the thread.
To the guy above who said: 'The consensus of opinion is that the game is garbage." - guy, that's just plain wrong. See my earlier post, #153. Can you not read?
PC Games (Germany) = 82/10
Meristation = 80/100
PC GAMER = 80/10
1UP = 83%
3DJuegos = 80%
Do you not understand the meaning of the phrase 'consensus of opinion'? It means that EVERYBODY is in agreement. EVERYBODY. And I'm afraid to say that, no, not EVERYBODY agrees that this game is garbage. Indeed, there's actually a lack of consensus here. Clearly, people are split on this game. (If this were a debate, by the way, the moderator would've just awarded me with about ten-thousand points, basically meaning that I'm debating the pants off you.)
Guy, what's not clear about this sentence: "An astounding variety of ethical decisions, a wide range of believable, fun characters and a thrilling 24esque storyline make Alpha Protocol one of the most compelling role playing games of the last years." That's from a reputable website.
Okay, you may not agree with that sentence. Fine. But the point is that clearly not EVERYBODY believes this game is garbage. Or maybe you really don't understand the phrase 'consensus of opinion'?
Anyhow, the one comment I will make is that it's actually damned nice being able to install a game this quickly - I haven't bought a physical copy of a game in a long time, and had forgotten how convenient it is to have the disc. Normally, at 10 gigabyte download would take me almost 24 hours. Being able to install the game this quickly and easily is great - and not having to launch Steam is actually kind of nice for a change.
Anyhow, my friends, I believe that I'm going to be enjoying this game soon - and so will be posting my thoughts later on in the thread.
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Riddleofsteel
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A couple of cherry-picked reviews doesn't necessarily make the game worth buying, either. I'll be interested in seeing your take on it, though. Should be a good read.
The size is a huge reason I bought a physical copy. I hate downloading big games. I may have an 8 meg connection, but I still don't like the long wait for a download.
Anyway I'm interested in your thoughts on the combat after you've put a few hours into it. At first the combat doesn't seem bad, but when you get into combat heavy areas and if you're specced out as more of a combat oriented character you should notice some of the issues. If I play the game a second time I think I'll either go recruit or some kind of stealth focused character to avoid combat as much as possible.
One thing about the game I will say there is a lot to like outside of the combat. I really like how the levels are laid out. The game is one of those heavily flawed titles that is likely to get a cult following. And despite my complaints I'll probably play it a second time to pick different conversation paths and to see if there are some fun ways to game the various systems in it. First playthrough is kind of a go through and get it done playthrough as its for review so I'm probably being more critical on it then I would be if I were just playing for fun.
Parmenides
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I think he said he's going stealth and without the pow pow bang em up guns like all the kiddies want. Should make for some interesting action in this thread regardless of what choices are actually made.
Should make for some interesting action in this thread regardless of what choices are actually made.spindoctor
Gawd
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My friend told me that was caused when you force AA from the control panel. Apparently, choosing the right flag in nhancer will solve the issue (not sure which one that is though).
Personally I'm going to avoid this trash game. Too many people have said it is bad for it to be anything else. Even the people who like it and recommend it are suggesting that we should play the game with lowered expectations and lowered standards. They say something like this.. "Apart from the bad graphics and apart from the terrible animations and apart from retarded AI and apart from the bad camera problems and apart from the control issues and apart from the technical problems and apart from the annoying minigames and apart from the poor shooting and apart from the broken stealth system and apart from the one-box-to-the-next mission structure and apart from the short length for an RPG and apart from the lack of polish, the game is actually pretty good". Well fuck me. Apart from everything wrong with the game, it's pretty good huh?
I'm not going to defend the game's problems, but its still fun despite all of its problems. A patch or two can fix a lot of the small technical issues. And really when looking at it that way VtM: Bloodlines is a pretty terrible game (sans unoffical patches) and yet its still a very fun game. AP is likely to become something of a cult favorite I think.
Ruiner
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http://www.richardcobbett.com/codex/alpha-protocol/
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/05/31/an-hour-with-alpha-protocol/
ouch. Patched, on sale, and perhaps even modded seems to be what to wait for.
edit: the first has spoilers.
I can't say I've ever read a review that describes minigames as fun and adding to the game (excepting perhaps lockpicking in Thief). My experience mostly supports that. They are something to be slogged through and put up with and need to DIAF, at least the ones that can't be avoided.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/05/31/an-hour-with-alpha-protocol/
ouch. Patched, on sale, and perhaps even modded seems to be what to wait for.
edit: the first has spoilers.
I can't say I've ever read a review that describes minigames as fun and adding to the game (excepting perhaps lockpicking in Thief). My experience mostly supports that. They are something to be slogged through and put up with and need to DIAF, at least the ones that can't be avoided.
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Minigames and QTE need to be put down for good.
As for Alpha Protocol, I put in about 30 minutes last night just to see if the combat was really as bad as everyone says. Personally, it seemed fine. I couldn't hit jack with my pistol from distance but the closer I got, the more accurate I was. Granted I've barely played the game, but it doesn't seem bad so far. Maybe I'm just to forgiving?
Once I finish ME 2 and Assassin's Creed II I'll get to AP.
This is the kind of game a trainer was made for. Minimize, eliminate, get around the annoying stuff and the garbage and enjoy the rest of it.
That's what I love about PC gaming. It's never a "closed" situation. There's always a way to get around a problem and make something better.
Hopefully they'll actually support the title and a nice patch comes out someday to improve some things but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'll have my copy here tomorrow and then I can get into this and I'll let you all know what I think.
That's what I love about PC gaming. It's never a "closed" situation. There's always a way to get around a problem and make something better.
Hopefully they'll actually support the title and a nice patch comes out someday to improve some things but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'll have my copy here tomorrow and then I can get into this and I'll let you all know what I think.
Arg. If I wasn't playing AP for review I'd quit playing right now. So I fail a mission, fine whatever, but when I reload I suddenly can't complete it because the person I was supposed to protect wouldn't appear and nor would any enemies. Try reloading a couple more times, same shit. So I exit the game and go back in. Works fine. Play for a bit longer and die on a boss battle. Reload the save and wouldn't you know, game is fucked up again. No one to shoot.
^^ Pretty strange. Definitely sounds buggy.
WabeWalker
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Here's what somebody posted at another forum. I'm seeing far more positive comments than I am negative ones.
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"Also one more thing.. this is an rpg people.. not a shooter..
You start off very weak and not able to do much of anything as far as shooting goes. But as you level up and upgrade your character your shooting improves, your close combat/stealth improves.
You start off just very weak and not able to do much, but as you level up and improve your character things start to kick into high gear.
If you expect to be able to be superman and do anything right off the bad then you probably wont like this, you have to work at getting your character better.
Did I mention the story and character interaction/responses are fantastic?"
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I think it's worth mentioning as well that in the game manual it states that you've been with the agency for just 3 months. You're a completely green agent - which kind of fits with the idea of leveling up a new character.
There have been quite a few positive reviews for this game, but quite a few negative reviews as well. I'm seeing mostly positive comments from actual gamers however, and I'm reminded that gamers buy games in order to enjoy them, whereas reviewers play games in order to find things wrong with them.
Sometimes a reviewer will feel the need to prove to the world how intelligent he is by ripping a game apart and pointing out its various flaws, whereas many of us will overlook those flaws simply because we're enjoying the game so much.
---------------------------
"Also one more thing.. this is an rpg people.. not a shooter..
You start off very weak and not able to do much of anything as far as shooting goes. But as you level up and upgrade your character your shooting improves, your close combat/stealth improves.
You start off just very weak and not able to do much, but as you level up and improve your character things start to kick into high gear.
If you expect to be able to be superman and do anything right off the bad then you probably wont like this, you have to work at getting your character better.
Did I mention the story and character interaction/responses are fantastic?"
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I think it's worth mentioning as well that in the game manual it states that you've been with the agency for just 3 months. You're a completely green agent - which kind of fits with the idea of leveling up a new character.
There have been quite a few positive reviews for this game, but quite a few negative reviews as well. I'm seeing mostly positive comments from actual gamers however, and I'm reminded that gamers buy games in order to enjoy them, whereas reviewers play games in order to find things wrong with them.
Sometimes a reviewer will feel the need to prove to the world how intelligent he is by ripping a game apart and pointing out its various flaws, whereas many of us will overlook those flaws simply because we're enjoying the game so much.
You could say that. Of course thats on top of the camera that likes to go bonkers and the ever present terrible combat. It really seems like exploiting the horribly broken stealth system is the best way to play the game. Not interested in starting over with a stealth character at this point though.
Reviewers don't play games to find things wrong with them, they play and review them to give their own thoughts of them. Yes reviewers tend to me more harsh than normal gamers, but we have to be. Its the job of a reviewer to point out both the good and the bad points of a game to let the gamer know what they are getting into should they decide to buy the game. Whether or not a gamer is going to agree with my opinion really doesn't matter because its my opinion based on my experiences with the game and my levels of tolerance for issues.
WabeWalker
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Disagree completely.
I've read reviews in which it was clear that the person was trying to make a name for himself by demonstrating how clever he was in dismantling the game.
This is the very reason I gave up on the website known as 1UP. There was a shakeup there recently, and a lot of people were fired. But before that, this place was filled with kids fresh out of university who were oh so clever and wanted to pontificate about gaming.
Some of the most pretentious reviews I've ever read were posted at 1UP. You see that sort of thing all the time, reviewers writing about shit that the rest of us don't care about. WE paid for our game, and therefore want to enjoy it, not dismantle it, and come down hard on every little thing that doesn't work.
I liked the snark level of the 1Up editors, well at least as far as their podcasts went. Review wise I wasn't a fan. Still not really, but I still enjoy the podcasts.
I have to pay for every single game I play or review and when I pay good money for something I fully expect it to be an enjoyable experience. Still, yes, gamers want to enjoy a game versus looking at it carefully and full examining the various points. Thats why most gamers make terrible reviewers. If you're not able to distance yourself from just being a gamer you can't properly review a game. If you don't care about fully exploring what is good and bad about a game, fine you don't have to, thats why reviews are there. The good ones do that work for you and help you decide if you think a game is worth your time. No reviewer can tell you if you'll like a game or not its a personal decision.
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Geez Wabe, every time I check this thread for first hand discussion on the game I see you’ve constructed another mighty wall of second hand rhetoric. Seriously, every 15 posts or so there’s another response with “reviewers said this but actual gamers said this” or “reviewers are saying this and they’re wrong because”. That horse died somewhere around page 5 of this thread.…
Anyway I’m not trying to be a dick, it just seems that you’re cluttering the thread now. And, all joking aside, I am interested to see what you actually think about the game because I’ve tended to share the same opinion as you on a number of recent RPG’s (like Risen and Divinity 2 for example).
Play the damn game and tell us what you think of it.
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Totally agree, that's why amongst many players even supposedly some people working on the project said that they should have scrapped the game from the get go. It certainly is no RDR, ME2 (Both which have universal acclaim and 100 review scores for the most part) or what not. Plus, its not even a good port as far as I've seen.
SEGA really drops the ball on a lot of their games that they publish, they expect too much in such little time.
To the guy disagreeing, LOL!
Sometimes a player needs to justify their purchases.. I get it
.
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Play the damn game and tell us what you think of it.
That goes for all of us, really. I've tried to keep myself brief.
I'm amazed at how much writing Wabe and several others have done over a game they haven't even played yet.
Everyone take a breath...take a moment and just chill until you actually play the game and THEN lay into it.
WabeWalker
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That was one person - and it appears that it might not even be true.
Even if it was true, a person who posts anonymously at a forum because he didn't get his way at the office is just a whiny little baby.
That person is a coward in every way. If he believed in what he said then he should've posted his name. If he believed his ideas were so great at the office then he should've been more forcefull in advancing those ideas to his colleagues. If he felt that his employers simply weren't listening to him then he should've either accepted it and kept quiet, or taken a stand and moved on.
Logging onto the internet and posting an anonymous comment tells me all I need to know about this person. (It's worth noting that a developer working on the game "Gabriel Knight: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned", did the exact same thing about ten years ago. He wrote a huge post, or rather article, in which he detailed the many problems which occured during the development of the game. Basically, he wrote that the whole thing was a nightmare, from start to finish. He signed his name. That gave him a huge amount of credibility.)
As far as me posting in this thread is concerned - I see no reason not to post about the things I've read about Alpha Protocol. Also, the way some people argue... I mean, just the stuff they write... it's worth posting about.
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Parmenides
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I shouldn't care... but I'm almost bummed out that I haven't heard any reports about Wabe's play today. Maybe tomorrow I'll hear something. Suspense is killing me. I'm waiting to hear whether Wabe takes the hardline position in favor of the combat system, or whether he takes the hardline 180 reverse turn from previous opinion against combat mechanics.
D
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There's a difference between being a lowly programmer and being in charge of the development process. The guy probably didn't wanna get fired, which he obviously would have been had he signed his name, and before you call him a coward (again) because of this, are you seriously going to tell me you don't know anyone that hasn't talked shit about their job at one point?
Because, really, it's just a job, not a marriage.
General consensus amongst my friends who bought it, and when I've watched it (They were huge on Alpha Protocol before it came out) they didn't like it. Albeit it did look very interesting when I first saw it, it turned out to be a crappier version of ME .
I think they promised too much and delivered it in a way that wasn't too polished as it could have been, blame SEGA and the deadline for that IMO.
.I think they promised too much and delivered it in a way that wasn't too polished as it could have been, blame SEGA and the deadline for that IMO.
Riddleofsteel
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True, still anecdotal stuff so far. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going to buy it until it's in an insane steam christmas sale or something. I feel bad for Obsidian, maybe Sega is to blame. No point in hypothesizing, but I hope Obsidian can knock Fallout NV out of the park, for their sake.
WabeWalker
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I've got work to do. I'll get around to Alpha Protocol on the weekend. Maybe. LOL!
Parmenides
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Yeah, I hope so. Definitely one company I don't want to see going away. If some devs went out of business, I either wouldn't care or might be happy. But definitely not Obsidian. Their overall success or failure probably will give a bit of influence on what kind of games will be made by other companies. Mostly affecting single player gaming in general.
And you've got forum posts to make in the mean time too.
General consensus amongst my friends who bought it, and when I've watched it (They were huge on Alpha Protocol before it came out) they didn't like it. Albeit it did look very interesting when I first saw it, it turned out to be a crappier version of ME
I think they promised too much and delivered it in a way that wasn't too polished as it could have been, blame SEGA and the deadline for that IMO.
I get the feeling it was never meant to be anything like Mass Effect. I get far more of a Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines feel from the gameplay then Mass Effect. Mass Effect is far more of a shooter with some very simplistic RPG elements. AP is a RPG with simplistic (and craptastic) shooting elements.
WabeWalker
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What I don't understand is why you're coming down so hard on the shooting mechanic. If the shooting mechanic weren't stats based then it wouldn't be an RPG - it would be an action game instead. On the box it clearly states that Alpha Protocol is an 'Espionage RPG'.
You said that you didn't care for VATS - but, as I said earlier, VATS was created to prevent Fallout 3, an RPG, from becoming an FPS.
In my opinion, you seem to want to be able to pick up a gun and shoot it as though you were picking up a gun in a first-person shooter. Okay, but that's a first person shooter. In the original Fallout games, it wasn't uncommon to shoot at a person and completely miss - if, in an RPG, your pistol stat is low, and you're using a pistol, then you SHOULD miss.
Alpha Protocol is a game. It's meant to be gamey. This being an RPG means that the gun mechanic has to be stats based, meaning you're SUPPOSED to miss your target if you don't possess the necessary skills.
I'm not sure what you were expecting?
anonmoniker
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Too many douchebag reviewers score based on "tolerance for issues" and not on how fun the game is. That's how games like Deadly Premonition and Infinite Space rack up mediocre scores even though they're loved by actual gamers. Most reviewers are complete failures because they operate under the moronic assumption that somehow their opinions are so important that they can write a review that covers an entire audience. This is why any bland/boring Nintendo action/adventure game is guaranteed to get a 9+. Very little for pretentious reviewers to pick at, even if the game is yawn inducing. And it's also why reviewers in aggregate only identify a 1 point difference on a 10 point scale between Supreme Commander and SC2, even though any RTS fan can tell you that if SC1 is a 9, SC2 deserves a 4 at best. I'm sick of seeing games reviewed based on how polished they are and not on how fun they are.
Like I said earlier in the thread if a developer puts guns in the game don't make them feel bad to shoot. Being stat based doesn't automatically mean the gameplay has to be utter shit.
As for the old Fallout titles I already addressed CRPGs and why it was easy to forgive their generally bad combat mechanics. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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