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AGP vs PCI-E

V

Vitamin T

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
198
Hope this doesn't sound too terribly much like a noob question, but I was wondering if anyone could give me a distinct, accurate explanation of what the difference is between PCIe and AGP. I always build my own rides, but haven't re-visited the 'game' in a couple of years. I tend to build it up, play for 2 years, and then when the sh!t starts lagging, I look into upgrading (or re-building altogether). So, naturally, the first thing I look at are vid cards. But I notice that most of the higher-end ones within my price range are PCIe. Now I'd heard of PCIe (back when it was in early development) before, when I was upgrading the last time. My main questions are regarding speed and compatibility. Speed vs AGP, and MB compatibility. For example, REAL basic question: will a PCIe card even run in your standard run-o-the-mill PCI slot?? Is it wiser, cost-wise, just to stick with AGP, while not losing any speed and/or quality?? What about opinions on future cards? Is this the direction that manufacturers are headed?
Any help would be appreciated.
 
PCIe is a brand new architechture, and a new PCIe card will not work in a regular PCI slot. as far as speed goes, it has twice the bandwidth of AGP 8x (PCIe 16x for gfx cards) but this doesnt matter much, as todays games dont even saturate the AGP 4x bus, so you will not see any gains. at this point, i think it would be smarter to invest in a PCIe machine just becasue AGP is being phased out and no new graphics cards will be made for it. there is a cost to doing this, PCIe is only found on high end boards at this point, ranging from 150-250 bucks.

then again, if you dont upgrade but for every 2 years, future upgradability wont matter, so you can go ahead and get an AGP board and a 6800GT or similar and have a still-kickass machine for a good long while. im gonna go AGP when i upgrade soon becuase i already have a 400 dollar graphics card and i dont feel like selling it and buying a new one at a loss.

hope this helps:)
 
It does, thanks :)
So, basically, for the future, AGP is fine. But for the FUTURE-future PCIe is the way it's going to be. I was just wigged out to see all those PCI-Es for sale. The last time I did this, AGP 8X was the "big thing". I think I may just save some money and find a AGP 6600gt cheap somewhere. Unlike alot of [H]ardfolk, I can stand 20fps vs 100fps. Notice my sig :) However, once that winning lottery ticket comes in, watch out.
 
bingo. if you dont plan to upgrade your card wtihout your board, PCIe isnt worth it IMO
 
Me too, I guess we all are running into this problem. I would love to upgrade to a pcie board but i have a 6800gt agp so i'm screwed unless I want to buy a 6800gt pcie and sell the agp card which is a hassle that I dont want to deal with. So I guess I'll wait it out..
 
Techx said:
Me too, I guess we all are running into this problem. I would love to upgrade to a pcie board but i have a 6800gt agp so i'm screwed unless I want to buy a 6800gt pcie and sell the agp card which is a hassle that I dont want to deal with. So I guess I'll wait it out..
Click to expand...
well, im going for s939, and im gonna go for either the MSI NF3 board or the upcoming DFI NF3 (yes, they are coming out with one, DFI insider got that info when the SLI board was released) with a 3200+ winchester
 
I had only this week to upgrade... since I'm in russia and my shipment opportunity is this week, I had to consider a lot before I shelled out $460 for a chip...

PCI-e is only worth the while right now if one 6800ultra AGP chip won't cut it for you. I don't see how that could be true... A single 6800u is heavily bottlenecked by the CPU, which can't feed the beast fast enough.
PCI-e offers 2 slots, capable of running nVidia's SLi, giving ~70%-90% improvement in rendering speeds, but ONLY IN SPECIFIC GAMES for which nVidia chose to program their drivers...

IMO agp cards are not going to be dead for a while... e.g. we still see 32-bit pci graphics cards around. And AGP came out quite a while ago.

Plus, we should let the technology mature further... SLi has yet to give twice the performance for twice the price.

Hence, I went with AGP BFG6800ultra... can't wait to get it.
 
a technology used by nVidia to link two graphics cards together with the use of the use of the PCIe inteface (cause it needs two ports) and little bridge of increase preformance about 75% in some games.

you dont remember voodoo 2 SLI?
 
krizzle said:
PCI-e offers 2 slots, capable of running nVidia's SLi, giving ~70%-90% improvement in rendering speeds, but ONLY IN SPECIFIC GAMES for which nVidia chose to program their drivers...
Click to expand...
wrong. nvidia is reasing drivers that are capable of forcing SLi in any game. i dont know if they are already out yet or not, but i know they are coming.
 
Remember back in the day of VOODOO2 cards from 3dfx? you could buy a second card to accellerate the first? Gave massive perfomance, and 1024x768 was first hit in quake1?

It's like that, except a bit more complicated. See, AGP was never designed to exist more than once on a board. Since it was a port purely dedicated to graphics from the start, no one ever thought they would need a second one. Hence, no 2 agp slot mobos or chipsets exist.

PCI-e, on the other hand, can be run in conjunction with another slot. Thus, nVidia unleashed SLi all over again: two graphics chips on one computer, greatly increasing performance. Unlike VOODOO's sli, where each card rendered alternate rows of pixles, nVidia's SLi has dynamic loading or frame per frame rendering spread out among the two cards. They are interlinked through the motherboard and a mobo-customized dongle that connects the two cards...

Here's a picture:
1101166418UKq6GDeX4c_1_12_l.jpg


and here's the full article for you to catch up on: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk2

It's good stuff, but you gotta spend twice as much on graphics cards and the motherboards that support this feature are currently about $200-$250. Not worth the gain, IMO. And furthermore, anyone who thinks a single AGP 6800u won't suffice for some game... resume counting your money, you rich bastards.

Anyway, read up. You're kind of behind :)
 
I remember my first (and only) Voodoo. I had it running with some old S3 card in my AMD 200mhz. That was moons ago though. Is this kinda the same concept?
 
Yes, it is the same concept. nVidia bought 3dFX... and that's where the idea came from for the new SLi.

lithium726 said:
wrong. nvidia is reasing drivers that are capable of forcing SLi in any game. i dont know if they are already out yet or not, but i know they are coming.
Click to expand...
still, I think the only reason to pay twice as much for a graphics setup is if it gives AT LEAST twice as much performance.
 
Ah, ok, I see. So these "2 cards" are bundled together. I DO need to catch up, natch :) But I'm at work at the moment, and I've been slacking enough as it is. I remember getting that 3DFx accelerator. It was like night and day. I doubt this would be the same difference. At least with the current game software out there.
 
Vitamin T said:
Ah, ok, I see. So these "2 cards" are bundled together. I DO need to catch up, natch :) But I'm at work at the moment, and I've been slacking enough as it is. I remember getting that 3DFx accelerator. It was like night and day. I doubt this would be the same difference. At least with the current game software out there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not really justifiable yet. So you could run your antiailiasing at 6x rather than 8x in a game. worth another $500? not really. Besides, a single card is still anchored by the fastest CPU's available...
 
Techx said:
Me too, I guess we all are running into this problem. I would love to upgrade to a pcie board but i have a 6800gt agp so i'm screwed unless I want to buy a 6800gt pcie and sell the agp card which is a hassle that I dont want to deal with. So I guess I'll wait it out..
Click to expand...

I did. I sold off my AGP rig for a decent chunk of change, but it cost me $1700 or so and all I got was 200MHz more CPU and a little bit better ram for overclocking, and I had to wait 31 days for my new video card. I had a 6800GT AGP and now I have a PCI-Express 6800GT. At least my PCI-E card OC's better than my AGP one did. The Raptors were a nice improvement

But my system really wasn't worth $1700 of upgrades. Although I got some overall performance I didn't get $1700 worth of performance. Although I have an upgrade path now where as before I didn't.
 
krizzle said:
still, I think the only reason to pay twice as much for a graphics setup is if it gives AT LEAST twice as much performance.
Click to expand...
agreed, i just wanted to a make a point that SLi no longer needed an nvidia profile inorder to work, so that point is no longer valid.

i might sell off my AGP card, im not sure yet... its not the greatest OC'er either...:(
 
I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me... I wonder if it has a similar effect in forced mode as in optimized mode.

I wonder if SLi overclocks decently (as if you need it)
I am gonna watercool my BFG6800ultra... aaah i can't wait. Screw that SLi BS!
 
lithium726 said:
well, im going for s939, and im gonna go for either the MSI NF3 board or the upcoming DFI NF3 (yes, they are coming out with one, DFI insider got that info when the SLI board was released) with a 3200+ winchester
Click to expand...
the new dfi nf3 is S754 no?
 
=lks= ka druma said:
TechX, Keep your eyes peeled to that new Via board. It will give you the new 775 socket plus, ddr,ddr2, agp and Pci Express.

[H] article here


LKs
Click to expand...

sweet thanks! didnt even know that existed :)
 
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