AGP is DEAD (agp r520 cancelled)

aZn_plyR said:
thank god.. go ati and nvidia!!! cancel agp!! yes! now I dont have the urge to sell my 6800ultra and get a better card wootwoot ...I am stuck on agp! yes and my next upgrade in 1 year or so!!..
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thats pretty much my sentiment but 6800gt instead.

If a 7800gtx came out for agp i woudl sorely be tempted to buy
 
lithium726 said:
3. all graphics technologies are being developed for PCIe. it doesnt make sense to pump R&D into making an AGP bridge chip. its an old tech, and it doenst need to be supported. period.
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ATi already has a PCI-e to AGP bridge chip. Why do you think the AGP version of the X800XL is so long...THE BRIDGE CHIP.
 
Un4given said:
ATi already has a PCI-e to AGP bridge chip. Why do you think the AGP version of the X800XL is so long...THE BRIDGE CHIP.
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and the R520 is a brand new core. they would need a new, or revamped bridge chip. which means $ in R&D, which doesnt make any damn sense.
 
When a certain game/software no longer runs comfortably on my AGP based system then I see a reason to move on. PCI-E here I come :rolleyes:
 
lithium726 said:
and the R520 is a brand new core. they would need a new, or revamped bridge chip. which means $ in R&D, which doesnt make any damn sense.
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I'm going to say no. The PCI-e is a specified interface, as is AGP. The bridge chip simply
needs to bridge two interfaces which have not changed based on the core technology.

PCI has gone through several revisions over the years and USB is on its third revision, yet they have maintained backwards compatibility because they still adhered to the primary, core bus standards. I don't see a PCI-e to AGP bridge chip being any different.
 
just becuase standards have *essentially* remained the same doesnt mean core logic doesnt change - companies always find new and better ways to do stuff like this, and R520 will have different function calls than R420 - which will require a new interface chip. if it were as easy as throwing a chip on a card a third party wouldve come up with the core logic and both NV and ATi would be able to use it. this isnt the case.

even with teh AGP to PCIe converter thing that was out a while ago, it only supports a limited number of cards.

925 and 955 boards are essetialy the same. same memory, same socket, same expansion slots. with a 925 support an pent D? no. i would be very surprised if there werent pins in the pcie x16 interface taht werent being used at the present moment, and they might be used in the next gen of cards. the fact that you can use a x16 card in an x4 slot that has been modded proves this.
 
Dillusion said:
If you want to prolong the life of AGP you dont belong on an enthusiast forum or anywhere near places where technology moves forward. Things change, stop tryign to justify your AGP purchases with all this bitching about AGP dissapearing. If you dont have the money to upgrade your PC every 6 months than find a new hobby.
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Wow what an ass.

I know one website I'll never visit: "Proud designer of the new - EclipseOC.com"
 
lithium726 said:
just becuase standards have *essentially* remained the same doesnt mean core logic doesnt change - companies always find new and better ways to do stuff like this, and R520 will have different function calls than R420 - which will require a new interface chip.
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Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems that there are motherboards that have an AGP slot hanging off the PCIe bus. If that is the case, it implies that one can create a mapping between PCIe and AGP calls. For that reason a bridge chip should be universally applicable, since it only translates between two standardized protocols. Any proprietary stuff is in the core and not dependant upon the interface.
 
its not hte case. "AGP-express" is/was two PCI slots linked together to give the bandwidth of about AGP 2x, with no GART support. it was a really shitty solution, to say the least.

AGP/PCI and PCIe are radically different. AGP and PCI are parallel busses while PCIe is serial. there is no mapping or correlation between them.
 
drizzt81 said:
Ever since the nforce3, GbE was implemented in the SB, i.e. not on the PCIe bus. Since nVidia is proudly announcing their 'active armor' stuff, you can bet that there is a GbE MAC on the nForce4 as well. Neither of these two implementations are limited by the PCI bus.

You say that PCIe was 'introduced' to reduce/ remove the bottleneck of add-in cards. From what I recall, the first PCIe boards came out in Spring 2004. Now it is Fall 2005 (i.e. more than a year has passed), yet you are extremely hard-pressed to find anything with at PCIe slot that is not a video card. You may say 'there are all these great PCIe SATA and SCSI raid cards you can buy'. And you are right, there are ~10 or so PCIe raid cards and 9/10 cost more than US$500.

If I could buy myself PCIe expansion cards at a price that I was willing to pay (say $200 for a 4-port SATA card), then your argument would make sense, but I cannot buy a PCIe GbE card to add to my A8N-E, nor can I find a SATA-raid card, nor pretty much anything but a video card. How come, PCIe was introduced for other reasons that video cards, yet the only thing I can buy now (more than a year after its introduction) is video cards? Seems like something went wrong, especially, since it is safe to assume that the performance difference is virtually zero (apart from SLI).
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...
 
Well at this point instead of upgrading sooner since I would have to upgrade everything to get PCI-e I've just decided to wait until my entire computer is worthless. Once games no longer run on it acceptabely I will upgrade everything to the absolute latest stand.
 
Killdozer said:
AGP died when the OEM's changed to PCIE
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and the fact that newer cards reach the max bandwidth of AGP and AGP is only for graphics cards, its just outdated like your neon windbreaker.
 
yevaud said:
Very funny. Everyone ROFLCOPTER !!!!

BTW, hvatum- You should put your real pc specs in your sig, that would probably be even funnier. :)
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What....................the................. fuck............................
 
Something's wrong when I have reason to sell my Socket 940 FX-53, a very solid performer.

No one makes a decent Socket 940 PCIe motherboard. I'd have to sell my CPU (which is not worth as much as the performance would suggest), and replace it with a lesser Socket 939 CPU.

That's bullshit. Both ATI and nVidia have bridge chips, and could easily make future video cards available to people stuck with AGP. And fyi, I don't have money to build a new rig. I had to save for four months to get enough money for my X800XT, and that's after selling my 9800XT for $170.
 
eastvillager said:
Eh, compare 2 gigabit ports at full utilization on a PCI bus, then compare them on a PCIe bus.

Got new for you people, PCIe wasn't introduced for video cards, although it is nice that we can put the topend cards on PCIe and not need a separate bus-arch just for the video.
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Then why the fuck is it that everybody ONLY cites the switch to PCIe by nVidia and ATI as evidence of the death of AGP? How many of these people who tell me, "ffs, what's another $200 for a PCIe motherboard :rolleyes:" are using gigabit ports, or PCIe RAID controllers? Abso-fucking-lutely none I'd bet, yet it still doesn't stop them from shouting about how much better PCIe is.

P.S. It's more like $200 for a PCIe motherboard and then another arbitrary $150 for a 24-pin PSU. So if you paid $200 for a top-of-the-line PSU a year ago, expecting it to last you for quite a long time to come, might as well pull your pants down now.
 
<snif...> All these years keeping my old Voodo 3 as a spare AGP card for trouble-shooting... good bye <snif...>. Now, where did I put that old Voodo 2? That card was PCI... I can probabbly use it for 5 more years until they finally kill PCI as well...

Anyway, I think it was a bad call for both ATI and Nvidia, there are still plenty of AGP computers that could use one last decent upgrade (a-la GeForce 7400 or Radeon X1300)

...
 
Apallohadas said:
I know one website I'll never visit: "Proud designer of the new - EclipseOC.com"
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mind repeating that for me? ;)

maybe the way he says what he did is a bit harsh, but he has a good point. as pointless as pci-e may seem now, think about how agp 8x was back in the day. we didn't see this kind of reaction back then. sure, it's not backwards compatible, but when you get down to the specs, it's like 20x better.
 
Ozone77 said:
<snif...> All these years keeping my old Voodo 3 as a spare AGP card for trouble-shooting... good bye <snif...>. Now, where did I put that old Voodo 2? That card was PCI... I can probabbly use it for 5 more years until they finally kill PCI as well...

Anyway, I think it was a bad call for both ATI and Nvidia, there are still plenty of AGP computers that could use one last decent upgrade (a-la GeForce 7400 or Radeon X1300)

...
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The voodoo/voodoo2 were not stand alone cards, they had a VGA passthrough.. What I'm saying is you cannot use them for trouble shooting, they'd just cause more confusion. Grab a 1/2mb s3 virge based card for $2 from the fs/t forum.
 
Hvatum said:
Well at this point instead of upgrading sooner since I would have to upgrade everything to get PCI-e I've just decided to wait until my entire computer is worthless. Once games no longer run on it acceptabely I will upgrade everything to the absolute latest stand.
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Yep I'd have to upgrade my PSU (it's a piece of shit.), mother board, processor, and a new graphics card... And living in New Zealand, that costs an arm and a leg. :wacko: So as of right now, I'm going to shove another 512 meg of RAM in, and a 6800/x800 series card for the time being, and be done with it till I'm in the position to upgrade what I need.
 
Dillusion said:
If you want to prolong the life of AGP you dont belong on an enthusiast forum or anywhere near places where technology moves forward. Things change, stop tryign to justify your AGP purchases with all this bitching about AGP dissapearing. If you dont have the money to upgrade your PC every 6 months than find a new hobby.
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I totally disagree, most of us don't have to upgrade that often because we pay for a slower product or something that is not the top end. O/c it and tweak it to get the most for our money. Thats what being an enthusiast is really about. I will be on the AGP boat for a while as well, there is no reason to jump to PCI-E yet, no great leaps in performance for anything that I want to play, not for the amount they are asking for the latest gen of vid cards.
 
frag85 said:
and the fact that newer cards reach the max bandwidth of AGP and AGP is only for graphics cards, its just outdated like your neon windbreaker.
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None of the newer cards max the bandwidth of AGP 8X yet, we are still far from it
 
Dillusion said:
If you dont have the money to upgrade your PC every 6 months than find a new hobby.
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This is easily one of the most assholeish things I've ever seen on this board. "uh-durrrr u gotta have new ]h]ardwarez to be leet leik me"

Oh fsck that. Not all of use have money pouring out of our ass. Some of us have taxes, car payments, bills, other shit that, from time to time, is more important then upgrading our hardware.

Put away you're fscking e-penis. Just because I don't have a computer that cost more then my house doesn't mean I'm not a PC geek. The only thing you're "leet" at is begging money off your rich parents so you can upgrade from an FX-55 to an FX-57.

(Just a note, I *am* missing a car payment to go A64/PCIe, but this kind of elitist atittude just drives me up a fscking wall.)

EDIT:
Riptide_NVN said:
Christ what an ass. Regardless of whether someone is complaining about this or not you shouldn't need to spend money every six months just to stay "in the hobby". What kind of elitist bullshit is this?
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Good to see i'm not the only one who saw that...
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
mind repeating that for me? ;)

maybe the way he says what he did is a bit harsh, but he has a good point. as pointless as pci-e may seem now, think about how agp 8x was back in the day. we didn't see this kind of reaction back then. sure, it's not backwards compatible, but when you get down to the specs, it's like 20x better.
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Your point is flawed being that AGP didn't force anyone to a different standard there was an AGP slot and PCI. The other major flaw you have there is any PCI card and AGP could play games almost ALL. My old Dell my parents bought me for college was a pentium 200 with a matrox card had 4mb of ram on it. It lasted and played everything.....

Oh and later I had a voodoo3 worked dam fine till the Geforce and GeForce 2 came along pretty much.

PCIe is great and will make a difference in time however most computers and more like 90% of them have an AGP slot. Maybe in 5 years PCIe might have 50% of the marketshare until it does they need to sell AGP cards.
 
I have an ISA AWE64

pci express is the future agp is the past, If the industry didn't evolve and force us to upgrade I know I would still be runnning a k6 chip and probably S3 graphics.

on a side note what is the fastest chip you can get that would fit in an agp mobo anyways.
I havent kept up with agp in months.
 
Twig and Berries said:
I have an ISA AWE64

pci express is the future agp is the past, If the industry didn't evolve and force us to upgrade I know I would still be runnning a k6 chip and probably S3 graphics.

on a side note what is the fastest chip you can get that would fit in an agp mobo anyways.
I havent kept up with agp in months.
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An AMD FX57.. The Nforce 3 socket 939 motherboards are AGP.. Infact, pci-e is about the only really big difference between the nf3 and nf4.. That's why I think killing off agp in the high end graphics cards is perhaps a generation or 2 premature.. Graphics card wise the 850XT pe and the 6800u are the fastest agp cards available that I know off..
 
Love these threads, lol.

/waits for Matrox to announce it's new line of AGP cards as soon as ATi and Nvidia OFFICIALLY state they will no longer do AGP :p
 
IMO...all of this ATI BS belated launch was planned....maybe?

I think that ATI, even if they wanted to at the time, did not have a mature card (in production) to compete with Nvidia's 7800 onslaught.

So I think from a financial standpoint, ATI waited out the storm hoping they could still appeal to those AGP owners (mind you they never said they would halt AGP productions at that time) with hopes they could generate enough interest in their next gen cards.

In the mean time, they still had a loyal following didn't they?

Not sure if my tiny theory translated into any truth, but I just can't see how a big company like ATI makes so many bad decisions previously and then capping off with the end of their AGP line and all we're supposed to say is doh!

I feel somewhere in there they pulled a jedi mind trick on us.
 
AGP was doomed when OEMs started to produce PCIe motherboards and video cards. They are now on the very tail end of this change. in less then 6 months AGP will be long gone, and for the most part gone now. It does not suprize me at all that the R520 will not have an AGP part.
 
Zardoz said:
AGP was doomed when OEMs started to produce PCIe motherboards and video cards. They are now on the very tail end of this change. in less then 6 months AGP will be long gone, and for the most part gone now. It does not suprize me at all that the R520 will not have an AGP part.
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Probablly new motherboards with AGP will be gone within 6 months, but the market will probablly still be 80% or greater AGP in the next six months.
 
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