Advise need in building a 15x8TB Raid array.

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by justbenice, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Hi,
    I am having a file server for home media like music, movies 4K, etc... with 15x8TB disk. 7 disk are Seagate Archive 8TB in mainboard Sata port (JBOD) and 8 disk are WD GOLD 8TB in PERC H200 card (JBOD). Last week i moved my house so i turn of my file server for a few days. Last night after finish moved all the thing in my house i turn on the file server , there were 3 of my disk dead (mainboard or sas card doesn't recognized those disk anymore) . What a bad luck that all of those disk were out of warranty ! And what a shame that all of 3 dead disk were WD Gold 8TB (wd8002fryz) .
    Now i don't want to lost any more data so what kind of Raid card and raid array should i use in this case? I don't need good read or write speed (Arround 100MBs is ok) but don't too slow in building array.
    Thank you so much!
     
  2. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    Are u sure it isnt just bad cable? Did u move those hdds or server itself in some bad way.. back in the days yahoo fcked up their data by moving their hdds/servers in wrong way and lost tons of data because of that..

    Personaly i use snapraid + stable bit drivepool config in my current server..
     
  3. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Yup , i also thought that were old broken cable so i bought 7 more new sata cable, i also change those dead disk to another port but it surely dead already.
    My CPU is I3 3GHz with 8G Ram so do you think a raid card will safer and faster than a software raid by windows?
     
  4. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    What do you guys think about the ASR-8555 for building a raid10 array?
     
  5. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Avoid HW RAID solutions. Best would be something ZFS based, but other SW solutions are ok too.
     
  6. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    with a moped model system like yours i would go with something really light if u dont wanna update.. have u ever considered something like unraid? winblows would be heavy and that amount would need more ram... zfs prolly same story with ram atleast..
     
  7. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thanks Meecho and WsstSidaz,

    I still don't understand why we should avoid HW Raid? With the Adaptec ASR-8885 can build Raid10 Array in 16 disk and 12Gbs/lane only arround 250$ (ebay), i thought HW Raid alway better than SW Raid.
     
  8. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    If you go 15 years back, hardware raid was always better than software raid. CPUs were weak at that time and the available software raid were bad.

    Now cpus are fast enough for realtime 3D. If they do raid processing you will not see any impact in cpu load. Additionally you can use fast system RAM for caching (much faster/more than on a hardware raid). Additionally newer software raid especially ZFS adds realtime data checksums, use crash resistent copy on write mechanism and are not affected by the raid-hole problem of traditional raid, http://www.raid-recovery-guide.com/raid5-write-hole.aspx

    So nowadays software raid is always better than hardware raid.

    btw
    Archive disks are absolutely not suited for any type of realtime raid!
     
  9. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thank you! So if i use software raid, what kind of Raid should i use for disk like 8TB, 10TB? Raid5 or Raid10?
     
  10. rive22

    rive22 [H]ardness Supreme

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  11. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Probably RAID 6 for your use.
     
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  12. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    A Raid-10 would offer the best random performance but you loose 50% capacity for redundancy. A Raid 5/6/Zn has only the iops of a single disk but a similar sequential performance like a Raid-10 but more usable capacity.

    If this would be a filer for valuable data, a ZFS realtime raid would be the best as it offers a superiour data security.

    If this is a pure mediaserver, none realtime options with a raid alike creation of a redundancy disk on demand like Snapraid, Unraid may be an option.
     
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  13. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    plus for hw raid if card itself crashes.. you will need same model new card or you are screwed if i remember correctly..
     
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  14. Krispy Kritter

    Krispy Kritter Gawd

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    Same brand, model, chipset, and firmware in most cases. With software Raid, you can break the array, move a disc to another computer, and still access the data. Plus the performance is only limited by the actual speed of the drive, thus it's faster in most cases.

    Not popular as of late, but I'm still using FlexRaid for this very reason.
     
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  15. blade52x

    blade52x 2[H]4U

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    While true, you also have to consider that rebuilding raid6 is much more taxing on the remaining array, then rebuilding a raid10 array which is taxing only on the paired drive. With 10+ drives, he's probably looking at 1 rebuild a year on average, and rebuilding an array of that size could days on a raid6 array. I think with that many drives, easier maintenance becomes worth the loss of capacity with raid10.
     
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  16. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    I chose RAID10 for my ZFS based NAS because of the above, plus the easier and cheaper pool expansion. But for his non-essential media use, RAID6 could be a better choice due to the capacity gains.
     
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  17. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thank you for all the great advise! I am using windows server so what is the best windows raid software right now ?
    I am thinking in between raid6 and raid10 , raid6 look like i have more space, anyone know how long it take to rebuild a 14 x 8tb disk array in raid6?
     
  18. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    it deppens of your hardware :) if it is moped hardware, slow controllers aswell and performance is limited per drive speeds.. it will take a long time..

    Best software.. it is prolly a matter of taste.. i personaly use snapraid + stablebit drivepool combo... there is other options aswell like flexraid what u can read about and consider
     
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  19. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    I am gonna use the Ryzen 3200G +16G Ram for this software Raid, do you think it enough power for fast rebuild the array?
     
  20. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    it isnt always matter of cpu or how much data it can eat without pooppin.. big issue in that will also be how fast sata ports are.. how fast hdds are.. system is fast as its weakest link.. and ofcourse raid system itself how u are gonna build it.. there are really good options in this thread to go with.. and i know it can be really hard to choose the right now when there is so many options.. i had same issue
     
  21. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    I end up with a ryzen 2600 + B450M board + 16GB ram + LSI 9400-16i. I will put all the disk in the SAS card which is 12Gbs/1 port to save power for I/O and CPU read disk data. Do you think it ok? And will that 9400-16i will last long for all day server?
     
  22. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Archive drives... are those a good choice for RAID? I did RAID 6 for many years... At the end of that trip, after enough losses along the way, changes, more drives I said F it. I've had enough of RAID. I went back to large single drives organized with libraries. I then back those up to externals via usb3. I've had no losses since. For ex...

    D5pmNUXl.jpg
     
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  23. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    So what are you using for externals backup? I still can't find the way to backup that much of data (arround 50TB)
     
  24. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    Nobody really knows how long parts can last.. they can last a week or 10 years.. :) Personaly i use UPS systems for protecting from lightnings and power outtages..

    But you can do alot to make them last longer.. keep them cool.. have a good psu giving those parts good energy.. get ups and give protection from outside issues :)
     
  25. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Five 10TB external backup drives will handle it. I have a stack of 8TB/10TB externals that I back up to using Syncback. It's decidedly low tech but it works. Internally I'm running two 8TB, two 10TB, one 12TB drive, and a 6TB drive for scratch.
     
  26. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    It will take space for the backup machine. I think i will link 7x8TB disk to one logic disk and mirror it with another 7x8TB disk to have safe data backup. And all of 14 disk in the same computer case to save space. As i don't need speed so i just do it basic to keep everything simple and safe.
     
  27. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Hello guys.
    I am finishing building a new server with AMD Ryzen 2600 . Then i back to the question :

    I am having 14 x 8TB disk. I want to to combine 7x8TB disks into one logic disk and mirror it with another 7x8TB logic disk. Are there anyway to do it ? And will it safe?

    Thank you!
     
  28. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    why dont u just do simple softraid with lets say 11-12 data drives and 2-3 paritys..?
     
  29. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thank you. Great idea! I will install snapraid and 2 parity!
     
  30. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    I still don't understand the solution Unraid + Stable bit drivepool ! Is it we creat 2 drive pool and miror one to another ? What happend if i have 7 x 8TB disk? How can Snapraid calculator a 7 disk and decice what is partial and what is active disk ?

    For 14 disks. Is it : I use Stable bit drivepool creat 2 pool of 7 disk . And use Snapraid to make one array become active disk and another array become partial disk ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  31. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    in snapraid those are eather data disks or parity disks.. u can add those to settings file :) and with unraid u dont need or even cant use stablebits drivepooling..

    for 14 disks.. u can make 1 pool what contains all data disks and no parity disks involved.. so.. just with 14 disks and if 2 paritys, u can add 12 data disks and 2 paritys so only those 2 paritys wont be added to drivepool
     
  32. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thank you! With a pool with 12 disk but 4 of disk are full, so there should be a paritys with at least 4-5 disk, right?
    In my case, best way to use snapraid is using stablebit drivepool creat 2 pool which is 7x8TB large. And use snapraid to make one pool become active disk and another pool become parity disk, is it right?
     
  33. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    data and parity disks are seperate disks.. no need to pool those like u mentioned.. if u are planning to add more disks later.. i would recommend to use windows mounting system so letters wont end in WIN.. less hazzle when u are above letter amounts.. and those data disks u can pool and parity disks leave out from the pool :) i personaly have atm 82 data disks and 6 paritys
     
  34. justbenice

    justbenice Limp Gawd

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    Thank you. That was what i thinking. Because i hear alot about how perfect of the combine snapraid + driverpool , but i think using driverpool will make alot of driver letter, sometime it make me confuse.
    So your solution is mounting a data disk into folder then snapraid will backup that folder to pary disk?
    BTW, how can you have 82 data disk but only 6 paritys disk? How can it backup all 82 data disk to only 6 paritys disk?
     
  35. WestSidaz

    WestSidaz Limp Gawd

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    well it isnt perfect.. i guess nothing is really perfect.. except maybe own backups + cloud combo... and drivepool itself also needs proper settings so it would work properly for snapraid..

    And yes drivepool itself makes one letter yes but there is also a need for snapraid to get data somewhere and for that u need solution where hdd is actually shown as HDD itself in somewhere.. and if u are gonna go someday over amount of letters in hdds.. i would recommend u start doing mounting from the start.. and it looks way better aswell..

    in my case i have \Mounts\HDD style config.. it looks clean and is clean.. in snapraid u choose in config file what disk is data disk and and what is parity disk.. and you only pool those data disks.. no other data to parity disks than parity data..

    So u dont need one parity drive for every hdd.. as of 1 hdd per parity hdd.. just waste of money in home use.. in enterprise world it might be needed and might be even more heavier solution where u back up 1 hdd to more than 1 other hdds in different locations but that is a totally different thing anyhow..

    How it can backup.. well.. it can.. how would i say it.. raiding and cannot really say that snapraid is basic raid system.. it is backup system.. not basic raid.. and it dosnt need 1 hdd per 1 parity hdd.. in snapraids faq it says recommended use for 42 hdds is 6 paritys.. i am going a bit harder ;) :D