Advice on sata raid backup options

[rottweiler]

Ok, so I probably made a mistake by doing this, but please help me fix it.
I currently have 2 200GB SATA drives in raid-0.
This is my main drive which has my OS.
After seeing my laptop harddrive possibly die, and my Sister just said her harddrive died, I don't want to take the chance of losing all my data if 1 drive fails.
So, my plan is to get 2 more of the same drives and have a raid 0+1 (I think) for a full mirrored backup.
Is this a decent option?
Or should I buy a 36GB Raptor to use as my OS drive?

Also if a 0+1 raid is a good option, then how difficult will it be to set it up without losing data?
My plan after talking to a friend was to setup the 2 new hard drives in raid-0 on a new controller (my mobo only supports 2 sata drives).
Then copy the data from my current raid-0 onto them, I guess using ghost or something?
Then add my current drives to the controller as a mirror of the other drives on it.
Then boot of the controller.

Will this work?
Or does adding a mirror require a format?
Are there any options I'm missing?

Thanks in advance,
Ted

 

[Ice Czar]

its unlikely the new controller will recognize the old array

you could try building another RAID0 on the controller, cloning the array and then adding ther old HDDs to it for the mirror

but cloning RAID arrays isnt offically supported by any affordable imaging software (less than $900), but that doesnt keep it from working most of the time, but...

Ghost compatibility with RAID
Symantec does not provide technical support for imaging RAID drives, regardless of whether the drive uses software level RAID or hardware level RAID. Successfully imaging a RAID drive is dependent on the specific computer model, driver controller, hard drive, and RAID implementation. Symantec provides the following information only as an aid to cloning RAID drives. This information is a suggestion only. It is likely to work only in limited circumstances. Symantec does not provide support for the following information.

adding or rebuilding a mirror will be documented with the RAID card and is a basic function so thats no problem, you might consider a fresh install to a RAID 0 on the card instead, then simply transfer the data to it from the other array, then wipe the old drives and add them as a mirror, that would be far more likely to work and might in the long run be easier, though you may have fun with the boot order, and beware of dual booting either OS, you need to make sure the fresh install to the card array gets its own system partition with the ntldr andd boot.ini, so verify your able to boot to the new cared array before you wipe or even try to transfer data (you may need to transfer from the old array in fact, as it might have by default a higher boot order and the new array be unbootable with it present)

 

[rottweiler]

Thanks, Your idea is what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear.
I didn't plan on putting my current drives on a new raid controller and have them magically work.
I planned on putting the new drives on the controller, copying data, then adding the current drives as mirrors.
Installing a new OS will be fine, I don't need to clone, I sorta thought cloning would be hard.

Currently, in the bios of my onboard raid, the drives are set as bootable.
Is it possible to turn this off without losing all the data?
If so, then boot order should be easy.
I'll only have one of them bootable.
If not, then that will be interesting.
But at the least, I think I can have a dual boot environment, hopefully, and after all is done, tell windows to only give me one choice.

Thanks for the advice, seems like everything will work.

But do you think this is a better option than getting a 36GB raptor as my OS drive, and just keeping these as storage without much of a need to backup.
I guess then maybe I'd still want to backup my os drive and would need 2 raptors.
And that would be ~$200 for an extra 36GB OS drive that's backed up, vs. ~$300 for no more storage, but everything being backed up.

Unless anyone else thinks there's a really good reason to get a seperate OS drive, this sounds like a good option.

Thanks for the help,
Ted

 

[Ice Czar]

whether a drive or array is set as bootable doesnt effect the data on it
but viewing a drive from a different OS can raise permission issues

http://www.windowsitlibrary.com/Content/592/toc.html

Take Ownership
The second particularly useful special access permission is Take Ownership.

All files and folders on a nNTFS volume have an owner. By default, the owner is the person installing the volume and formatting it with the NTFS file system. This is usually a Windows 2000 Administrator. File and folder ownership can be transfer to another user or group. You can grant a user account or a user group the ability to take ownership of a file or folder. As an administrator, you have the ability to take control of any files or folders on the NTFS volume.

Two hard-and-fast rules apply here. Remember these when thinking about granting someone the ability to take ownership of a file or folder.


The owner of a file or folder or any user with the Full Control NTFS permission to a file or folder can assign the Full Control standard NTFS permission or the Take Ownership special access permission, which allows taking control of that file or folder. For instance, if User A has the Full Control standard NTFS permission to D:\Apps and assigns the Take Ownership special access permission to User A, User A can now take ownership of any files or folders in D:\Apps.


A Windows 2000 administrator can take ownership of a file or folder at any time. This is one of the inherited rights that administrators have. Administrators can then assign the Take Ownership special access permission to another user or group, so that they can take control of the files and folders in a parent folder. For instance, if User A leaves the organization for another position, a Windows 2000 administrator can assign the Take Ownership special access permission to the former employee's manager for the former employee's files and folders. The manager can then take ownership of those files and folders.

so the new install wont know that the old install belongs to it
of course you need to disable simple file sharing first

http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/winxpnetworking/ht/winxpsfs.htm

Open "My Computer" from the Start Menu or Windows XP Desktop. A new My Computer window will appear.

2. Open the "Tools" menu and choose the "Folder Options..." option from this menu. A new Folder Options window will appear.

3. Click on the "View" tab and locate the "Use Simple File Sharing (Recommended)" checkbox in the list of Advanced Settings.

4. To enable Simple File Sharing, ensure this checkbox is checked. To disable Simple File Sharing, ensure this checkbox is not checked. Click inside the checkbox to alternately enable and disable the option.

5. Click OK to close the Folder Options window. The settings for Simple File Sharing are now updated; no computer reboot is required.

The Simple File Sharing checkbox should be at or near the bottom of the Advanced Settings list in the My Computer Folder Options.
Enabling Simple File Sharing prevents the ability to assign user-level passwords to shares. When Simple File Sharing is enabled on a computer, remote users will not be prompted for a password when accessing that computer's shares.
If the Windows XP Professional computer is part of a Windows domain rather than a Windows workgroup, this process for enabling or disabling Simple File Sharing has no effort. Simple File Sharing always remains disabled for computers joined to domains.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=308421

To take ownership of a folder, follow these steps:
Right-click the folder that you want to take ownership of, and then click Properties.
Click the Security tab, and then click OK on the Security message (if one appears).
Click Advanced, and then click the Owner tab.
In the Name list, click your user name, or click Administrator if you are logged in as Administrator, or click the Administrators group. If you want to take ownership of the contents of that folder, select the Replace owner on subcontainers and objects check box.
Click OK, and then click Yes when you receive the following message:

You do not have permission to read the contents of directory folder name. Do you want to replace the directory permissions with permissions granting you Full Control?

All permissions will be replaced if you press Yes.
Note folder name is the name of the folder that you want to take ownership of.
Click OK, and then reapply the permissions and security settings that you want for the folder and its contents.

regarding boot order, it might not be so simple
any bootable card is considered SCSI, and which array is bootable depends on which is seen first by the PIRQ routing, and if your onboard SATA controller has a higher order in the PIRQ routing than the PCI slots and if there is a bootable array there then thats where it will boot, some BIOS have SATA, and SATA RAID, in the Boot orders, others just SCSI
so you might have to disconnect the old array in order to boot to the card, but thats dependent on the BIOS and PIRQ routing table, something that is typically well documented in a server or workstation, and damn near impossible to find for a desktop

alot of folks just have to map it by trial and error

 

[rottweiler]

I've done a bit of copying files from another drive that had XP installed on it.
I know about simple file sharing, but have never heard about taking ownership.
So the boot order does seem like an issue, I'm sure I'll figure it out, might just take me a while.
Thanks for all the help.
Guess I'll order the drives and controller.

 

[Ice Czar]

PIRQ routing becomes important when running multiple cards
but didnt used to effect any IDE options as youd simly set the SCSI as your first boot device, but now with some BIOS that intial SCSI postition has been employed for the
SATA port or onboard RAID and thats where it gets "unique" and rarely documented