Advice on new pc

[kazaakas]

Okay guys, I'm preparing for a new build and I'm not entirely sure and would like some afvice if possible.
Determining the prices can be hard since I live in Europe, but the ratio of the prices in europe between certain parts is about the same as in the US



1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming, browsing, schoolwork and general tweaking and benchmarking stuff
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~€1400 could vary depending on if the extra money will be worth it
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
The Netherlands
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, GPU, PSU, MB, Heatsink, SSD, DVD burner
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Corsair Carbide 500R with six TY-140 140mm fans and the two stock 120mm fans
Indigo Xtreme thermal paste for 1155/1156
250GB harddisk
6) Will you be overclocking?
Definately going to drive overclock as high as possible for 24/7 use at decent temps
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1920x1080 23" - 120Hz
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as I get my hands on Ivy Bridge
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Just SATA-6Gbps and SLi possibility
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Was thinking of the following myself, any advice on this will be much appreciated!:
CPU: Core i7 3770K
MOBO: Sabertooth Z77 (Maybe cheaper one, not 100% sure yet)
RAM: Vengeance Low Profile — 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit (1600Mhz/CL9/1.5V)
GPU: EVGA GTX 680
PSU: XFX 850W Black Edition Modular (Way more than I need now, but I might want to use overclocked SLi in the future)
SSD: Corsair Performance Pro 128GB
Heatsink: Thermalright Silver Arrow
DVD drive: Random $20 samsung thingy

 

[J Macker]

I'd suggest a Crucial M4 ssd.

Also, the PSU is WAY overkill and a waste of money in my opinion. That, plus I've never heard of the psu brand "Nexus".

 

[Dangman]

In addition to what J Macker said, make sure that the RAM you're buying is rated at 1.5V. Any higher and you risk damaging the CPU. Patriot makes RAM that runs at 1.65V so you want to be careful about that.

As for Nexus, they're a Dutch company and they make OK PSUs at best. However generally you can find significantly better quality PSUs at around the same price for those Nexus PSUs. At least you could here in the U.S a few years back.

Anyway, due to the possibility of SLI, I recommend no less than a quality 750W PSU. A 1000W PSU is sheer stupid overkill at this point in time. I'd look at the Corsair TX V2, AX, or HX series PSUs.

 

[E4g1e]

I'd suggest a Crucial M4 ssd.

Also, the PSU is WAY overkill and a waste of money in my opinion. That, plus I've never heard of the psu brand "Nexus".

Also, the Corsair Performance Pro that the OP originally had as one of the SSD choices uses the same Marvell controller as the Crucial m4. As such, the Performance Pro is a bit faster - but also a bit more expensive.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Just don't go with the OCZ SSD.

 

[kazaakas]

I know this PSU is overkill for the listed build... BUT I want the possibility of using SLi in the future and I want to overclock both my CPU and GPU('s) and with that of cousrse also overvolt the CPU. So in that case I suppose 1000 watts is still the best choice right?

Nexus has the cheapest 1000W PSU with a bottom mounted fan by over €20 difference here, I read a few reviews and its noise level and voltage deviations seemed fine to me.
In what terms is this PSU inferior to other, more expensive 1000W PSU's?

Just don't go with the OCZ SSD.

Can you please elaborate on this?
Note that the fourth generation of vertexes doens't use the Sandforce controller anymore



The ram is 1.5V by the way

 

[Dangman]

I know this PSU is overkill for the listed build... BUT I want the possibility of using SLi in the future and I want to overclock both my CPU and GPU('s) and with that of cousrse also overvolt the CPU. So in that case I suppose 1000 watts is still the best choice right?

Not the best choice. Even with overclocking involved and SLI, you would still be fine with a solid 850W PSU from Corsair, Seasonic, XFX, and Antec. With that said, your money, not ours. The only real bad con of a larger PSU IMO is just the higher costs. However the PSU you chose still isn't the best.

Nexus has the cheapest 1000W PSU with a bottom mounted fan by over €20 difference here, I read a few reviews and its noise level and voltage deviations seemed fine to me.

Were those proper PSU reviews though? I.e with an automatic test equipment and such? Did they do proper temperature testing in a hot-box? Did they do ripple measurements? If the review was simply composed of them hooking up to a PC, running a bunch of programs on said PC, measuring voltages through a multimeter, and saying it works, it's not a proper PSU review. That doesn't say anything about PSU quality.

In what terms is this PSU inferior to other, more expensive 1000W PSU's?

Typical good 1000W PSUs have 80A on the +12V rail. That Nexus RX-1K only has 75A on the +12V rail. Typical good 850W PSUs have 70A on the +12V rail btw. So you're not actually getting a 1000W PSU there: It's more of a 900W PSU.

IIRC, it's an ATNG design of ok quality. Not horrible but not great either. So that's more or less an average quality 900W PSU there. Might as well get a higher quality 850W PSU if it costs around the same price.

Can you please elaborate on this?
Note that the fourth generation of vertexes doens't use the Sandforce controller anymore

It's OCZ. Generally we don't trust that company that much around here.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Can you please elaborate on this?
Note that the fourth generation of vertexes doens't use the Sandforce controller anymore

While the main reason why we don't generally recommend OCZ SSDs is due to the Sandforce controller and it's random BSOD issue; but we don't recommend OCZ's products due to their lack of good customer support should something go wrong. Nothing is 100% and a company that backs up their products no matter what is who you should spend money with. OCZ in the recent past hasn't been very good with it's customers.

 

[kazaakas]

Not the best choice. Even with overclocking involved and SLI, you would still be fine with a solid 850W PSU from Corsair, Seasonic, XFX, and Antec. With that said, your money, not ours. The only real bad con of a larger PSU IMO is just the higher costs. However the PSU you chose still isn't the best.


Were those proper PSU reviews though? I.e with an automatic test equipment and such? Did they do proper temperature testing in a hot-box? Did they do ripple measurements? If the review was simply composed of them hooking up to a PC, running a bunch of programs on said PC, measuring voltages through a multimeter, and saying it works, it's not a proper PSU review. That doesn't say anything about PSU quality.


Typical good 1000W PSUs have 80A on the +12V rail. That Nexus RX-1K only has 75A on the +12V rail. Typical good 850W PSUs have 70A on the +12V rail btw. So you're not actually getting a 1000W PSU there: It's more of a 900W PSU.

IIRC, it's an ATNG design of ok quality. Not horrible but not great either. So that's more or less an average quality 900W PSU there. Might as well get a higher quality 850W PSU if it costs around the same price.

It's OCZ. Generally we don't trust that company that much around here.

Thanks for taking the time to help me, I appreciate it.
Well I guess I'll take a different PSU then if 850 watts will suffice too. However I intend to use the case, fans and psu for a lot of years to come, so I used a power supply calculator, in which I created a worst case sli scenario of a 2600K@5200Mhz/1.45V, two GTX580's on full load, about 10 fans and 4 USB devices, which resulted in a recommended PSU of over 1000W. And that's with stock speed GPU's.
Now I know a system will practically never reach totally full load but I dont want to have to buy another expensive PSU again in two years time.
Of course, if the Nexus PSU is of "meh" quality, chances are I have to buy something new anyway...

By the way this nexus PSU has a total of 900 watts on solely the +12V rail right? The watts from the 5V and 3.3V are still to be added for the total amount of watts. So that still makes it quite a bit more than 900 still, am I right?

This was one of the reviews I read by the way: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=894

While the main reason why we don't generally recommend OCZ SSDs is due to the Sandforce controller and it's random BSOD issue; but we don't recommend OCZ's products due to their lack of good customer support should something go wrong. Nothing is 100% and a company that backs up their products no matter what is who you should spend money with. OCZ in the recent past hasn't been very good with it's customers.

Well the fact that even Intel uses the sandforce controller now and OCZ gives 5 years warranty on their new SSD's built a bit of trust in me.
Though I'm still a bit confused, the IOP/S on these new drives are insane, and in some tests they surpass every SSD ever released, but at other tests they perform really bad.

I don't really want to get a M4 since I've read a lot of reviews that it loses its speed a lot faster when the drive is getting more full.
Trusty corsair would be my second choice.
EDIT: This review made me not like the M4 as much

 

[E4g1e]

Well, the problem with OCZ is that they are far more likely than most other companies to make you "hold the bag" forever: If a significant problem occurs with one of their products, they either refuse to even acknowledge that problem or bounce you from department to department with absolutely no solution at all whatsoever.

And all Sandforce-based SSDs have their own problems: Some of them still suffer from the random BSOD issue. And all of the Sandforce-based SSDs degrade very severely in performance with uncompressed (or incompressible) data - in some cases, their speed is slower than even the slowest of mechanical hard drives.

 

[Dangman]

However I intend to use the case, fans and psu for a lot of years to come, so I used a power supply calculator, in which I created a worst case sli scenario of a 2600K@5200Mhz/1.45V, two GTX580's on full load, about 10 fans and 4 USB devices, which resulted in a recommended PSU of over 1000W. And that's with stock speed GPU's.

Those PSU calcs tend to over-inflate the power requirements due the vast number of shitty power supplies out there.

By the way this nexus PSU has a total of 900 watts on solely the +12V rail right? The watts from the 5V and 3.3V are still to be added for the total amount of watts. So that still makes it quite a bit more than 900 still, am I right?

Somewhat. However, the specs for that Nexus PSUs only shows it being capable of 980W with the other rails combined, still short of 1000W. And honestly you really won't load the other rails that much considering that a majority of PC parts now run off the +12V rail. Unless you have a really old PC or have like 20 to 30+ hard drives, the other rails don't add too much.

This was one of the reviews I read by the way: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=894

Yeah not a proper PSU review at all. Though at least they did take apart the PSU which confirms it's an average ATNG design.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Can you please elaborate on this?
Note that the fourth generation of vertexes doens't use the Sandforce controller anymore

Just look for yourself with a quick search here on just these forums.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1595475&highlight=ocz+warranty+customer
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1536143&highlight=ocz+warranty+customer
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1555619&highlight=ocz+warranty+customer
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1500878&highlight=ocz+warranty+customer

Just a few examples with the same keyword search. Pretty sure if you want more proof, you can do better searches and find more not just on this site, but other sites as well.

 

[E4g1e]

Can you please elaborate on this?
Note that the fourth generation of vertexes doens't use the Sandforce controller anymore

The Vertex 4 uses an Indilinx controller. Remember a couple of years ago when OCZ bought Indilinx? So, in effect, OCZ's Vertex 4 uses OCZ's own controller.

 

[kazaakas]

Just look for yourself with a quick search here on just these forums.
Just a few examples with the same keyword search. Pretty sure if you want more proof, you can do better searches and find more not just on this site, but other sites as well.

Well, the problem with OCZ is that they are far more likely than most other companies to make you "hold the bag" forever: If a significant problem occurs with one of their products, they either refuse to even acknowledge that problem or bounce you from department to department with absolutely no solution at all whatsoever.

And all Sandforce-based SSDs have their own problems: Some of them still suffer from the random BSOD issue. And all of the Sandforce-based SSDs degrade very severely in performance with uncompressed (or incompressible) data - in some cases, their speed is slower than even the slowest of mechanical hard drives.

The Vertex 4 uses an Indilinx controller. Remember a couple of years ago when OCZ bought Indilinx? So, in effect, OCZ's Vertex 4 uses OCZ's own controller.

So what do you guys recommend to get?
I know [H] is very fond of corsair so I guess I'll be fine with a corsair PP 128GB?

 

[kazaakas]

Somewhat. However, the specs for that Nexus PSUs only shows it being capable of 980W with the other rails combined, still short of 1000W. And honestly you really won't load the other rails that much considering that a majority of PC parts now run off the +12V rail. Unless you have a really old PC or have like 20 to 30+ hard drives, the other rails don't add too much.

Yeah I know that's true but the same goes for a 850 watts PSU: those total 850 watts aren't all on the 12V rail...

Anyway, with a heavily overclocked/overvolted CPU and OC'd SLi I'd still be fine with 850W?

 

[Dangman]

Yeah I know that's true but the same goes for a 850 watts PSU: those total 850 watts aren't all on the 12V rail...

True but they're a lot closer to the max rated wattage of the PSU than that Nexus: The Corsair TX850 V2, Corsair HX850, Corsair AX850, Antec High Current Gamer 850W, Seasonic X-850, SeaSonic M12II 850, and XFX Pro850W all have 70A on the +12V rail or 840W on the +12V rail. So rather than go the Nexus route where they added the other rails to inflate the rated wattage for the PSU, those PSU manufacturers rated their PSUs closer to the limits of the +12V rail + the small use of the other rails.

Anyway, with a heavily overclocked/overvolted CPU and OC'd SLi I'd still be fine with 850W?

Yes without a doubt.

But if you're still absolutely insistent on a larger PSU, at least go for a quality one, not a so-so one. Something like the Corsair HX1050.

 

[kazaakas]

Hah, I wouldn't have made this thread if I would be stuck with my own opinion
I'll be searching around for something else then, see if I can find something else in the same price range from a better brand. I do want a modular PSU though, or semi-modular.

EDIT: The 850W one from XFX seems pretty nice, lots of optional cables and short enough to place a bottom fan in the case How about coolermaster a M850?

 

[Dangman]

EDIT: The 850W one from XFX seems pretty nice, lots of optional cables and short enough to place a bottom fan in the case How about coolermaster a M850?

I wouldn't bother with the Coolermaster since it only has 66A on the +12V rail.

 

[kazaakas]

I wouldn't bother with the Coolermaster since it only has 66A on the +12V rail.

Thank you, I oversaw that.

Well I switched the nexus PSU with an XFX and the OCZ ssd with one from corsair

Any other suggestions guys?

EDIT: Just found out the shop I'm buying stuff at lists the ram as 1.5 but on the specs page it lists it as 1.6... The results vary with every site.. weird, The total name of the ram was PGQ316G1600ELQK. They do have a 1333Mhz version which seems to be 1.5V for sure. Shop also has a corsair set of 1600Mhz @ 1.5V at the same price, but those have little heatspreaders that will conflict with the silver arrow I fear...

 

[Dangman]

EDIT: Just found out the shop I'm buying stuff at lists the ram as 1.5 but on the specs page it lists it as 1.6... The results vary with every site.. weird, The total name of the ram was PGQ316G1600ELQK.

Ditch it: If Patriot's own site says it's a 1.6V RAM, then it's a 1.6V RAM.

They do have a 1333Mhz version which seems to be 1.5V for sure. Shop also has a corsair set of 1600Mhz @ 1.5V at the same price, but those have little heatspreaders that will conflict with the silver arrow I fear...

Performance wise, you honestly wouldn't notice a difference between DDR3 1333 and DDR3 1600 RAM.

 

[kazaakas]

Yeah, ram speeds kind of barely matter eh.
Found some low profile vengeance RAM by corsair though, 1600Mhz, CL9, 1.5V
Also comes with lifetime warranty according to corsairs site

 

[Dangman]

Pick that then if it's not too much more.

 

[kazaakas]

I was wondering, shouldn't I better get an 3570k instead of a 3770k?
The difference seems minimal, just HT, 2MB of cache and 100Mhz for €100.

 

[kazaakas]

On a second thought, the 3770k's are probably the cherry picked chips right?

Is it like the 2700k and the 2500k?
The 2700k cpu's generally overclock a bit further (without HT) than the 2500k because only the "golden samples" are branded as 2700k's right?

 

[Dangman]

I was wondering, shouldn't I better get an 3570k instead of a 3770k?
The difference seems minimal, just HT, 2MB of cache and 100Mhz for €100.

Yes you would be fine with the 3579K. ONly get the 3770K if A) you have money to burn and B) you want a really large e-peen.

On a second thought, the 3770k's are probably the cherry picked chips right?

Probably not.

Is it like the 2700k and the 2500k?

No. Remember that we're talking about the first release of IB here. The 2700K was released long long after the release of the 2500K and 2600K. Intel doesn't have time to go and cherry pick CPUs

The 2700k cpu's generally overclock a bit further (without HT) than the 2500k because only the "golden samples" are branded as 2700k's right?

Not always

 

[Topweasel]

Yes you would be fine with the 3579K. ONly get the 3770K if A) you have money to burn and B) you want a really large e-peen.

Probably not.

No. Remember that we're talking about the first release of IB here. The 2700K was released long long after the release of the 2500K and 2600K. Intel doesn't have time to go and cherry pick CPUs

Not always

We don't know that. We know that SB allowed for some pretty amazing clocks accross the board. For that reason outside a little bit of cache and HT, there was little reason to pick up a 2600k over a 2500k for standard gaming. What we don't know is how IB is treating Intel. For all we know with turbo, they might not feel safe at the upper end clocking of an IB chip and ones that don't have head room at above 4GHz get sold off as 3550ks. Meaning that it could be luck of the draw on the i5's on whether they are i5's for stock reasons or i5's because they don't clock well.

SB is the aberration not the standard on CPU binning and overclocking potential. I wouldn't assume that the same thing applies with IB. So lets not act like experts till the product is actually released and there is some factual information on the matter.