Advice on new PC speakers

Ayoralyn

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Jan 30, 2011
Messages
216
Hello everyone,

Me and the wife are looking for a new pair of PC speakers, and could use some advice.

First off, this is what we're considering:

My wife has her eyes set on the Edifier R1280T. She's had bookshelf speakers before, and really liked it.

I'm considering either the Logitech Z333 or the Logitech Z533. I'd also be willing to get the Edifier, if for whatever reason it's the obvious choice.

We're looking for input both on the above mentioned, but new suggestions are also welcome.

We're not interested in headphones at all. The speakers will be used for gaming, occasionally listening to music or the odd movie. The main focus is gaming. We play MMO, RPG, Strategy, and adventure games mostly. No FPS games. Price no higher than $150 US (For 1 set). They have to be either bookshelf speakers (Where the subwoofer is in the speakers itself), or 2.1 that has a separate subwoofer. We simply don't have the option to set up a decent surround system at the moment.

We realize that the price point is probably a tad on the low side, but neither of us is an audiophile, so paying much more seems like a waste of money to us. We'd rather put the money towards other hardware for our new PCs.
 

jarablue

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Z623 Logitech is what I have. They are nice and games sound awesome. Thx certified.

Test them out and return them if you don't like them.
 

B00nie

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8,743
Hello everyone,

Me and the wife are looking for a new pair of PC speakers, and could use some advice.

First off, this is what we're considering:

My wife has her eyes set on the Edifier R1280T. She's had bookshelf speakers before, and really liked it.

I'm considering either the Logitech Z333 or the Logitech Z533. I'd also be willing to get the Edifier, if for whatever reason it's the obvious choice.

We're looking for input both on the above mentioned, but new suggestions are also welcome.

We're not interested in headphones at all. The speakers will be used for gaming, occasionally listening to music or the odd movie. The main focus is gaming. We play MMO, RPG, Strategy, and adventure games mostly. No FPS games. Price no higher than $150 US (For 1 set). They have to be either bookshelf speakers (Where the subwoofer is in the speakers itself), or 2.1 that has a separate subwoofer. We simply don't have the option to set up a decent surround system at the moment.

We realize that the price point is probably a tad on the low side, but neither of us is an audiophile, so paying much more seems like a waste of money to us. We'd rather put the money towards other hardware for our new PCs.
Do they have to be powered speakers i.e. do you have an amplifier to run them? For that price point (if you have an amp) Pioneer SP-BS22-LR is a great option. Those Logitechs probably won't be very satisfying. I've yet to hear anything decent coming out of that company (no offense Jarablue).

I haven't heard the Edifiers personally but if they're aimed to be hifi speakers, they probably sound better than any 'gaming' sound system. The best advice with speakers is always to test yourself and buy what sounds good to you. Someone else might disagree - but it's you who do the listening.

The biggest challenge is that you should always test in your own listening room. The speakers _will_ sound totally different in the shop because the room acoustics change the way a speaker sounds considerably.
 

Ayoralyn

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
216
Z623 Logitech is what I have. They are nice and games sound awesome. Thx certified.

Test them out and return them if you don't like them.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately they're a tad out of our pricerange here in Denmark :)

Do they have to be powered speakers i.e. do you have an amplifier to run them? For that price point (if you have an amp) Pioneer SP-BS22-LR is a great option. Those Logitechs probably won't be very satisfying. I've yet to hear anything decent coming out of that company (no offense Jarablue).

I haven't heard the Edifiers personally but if they're aimed to be hifi speakers, they probably sound better than any 'gaming' sound system. The best advice with speakers is always to test yourself and buy what sounds good to you. Someone else might disagree - but it's you who do the listening.

The biggest challenge is that you should always test in your own listening room. The speakers _will_ sound totally different in the shop because the room acoustics change the way a speaker sounds considerably.

We do not have an amplifier, no. It was something my wife looked into, because she came to the conclusion that if we got some better speakers not intended for PC, we'd need one. I fear though that the cost would quickly go over budget if we wanted some decent speakers AND an amplifier.
 

B00nie

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We do not have an amplifier, no. It was something my wife looked into, because she came to the conclusion that if we got some better speakers not intended for PC, we'd need one. I fear though that the cost would quickly go over budget if we wanted some decent speakers AND an amplifier.
Price does go up fast when you want better quality. But generally speaking powered hifi speakers tend to outclass any 'gaming oriented' setups. The latter may have fancy advertising but the quality usually sucks. Not always but usually.

There are many options such as getting a d-class mini amp with cheap mini speakers such as Micca Covo-S: and a mini amp such as https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyle-Home-...881894?hash=item1f19812ba6:g:3jQAAOSwAjVfqfMu or something similar. Literally thousands of options.
 
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drutman

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Jan 4, 2016
Messages
259
Go to Goodwill to find a receiver and visit your local Guitar Store for a pair of monitor speakers. Polk is decent quality.
 

atarione

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I'd take the edifier over the logitech speakers personally... if you can get to $150 USD.. then go for the edifer the R1700BT for $150. I mean it is going to be simple / clean going to have a high WAF (since she was looking at the edifer speakers...

R1700BT

or look around for used receiver / speakers in your area (if you have room for a receiver...???) this can be great but I'm not really down for used shopping during a pandemic personally..

my thought is get the edifer R1700BT and rock out...
 

B00nie

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As a rule of thumb, anything a brand like Logitech makes is aimed for the mass market. Fancy advertising, sub-par sound quality aimed to impress at a sales stand but disappoint in daily use.

A hifi or professional 2-channel will always sound better. 2.1 better. And the proper way to do it is to have hifi or pro speakers all corners in surround. But I also understand it's not everyones cup of tea. If someone is happy with a Logitech system, good for them. The main thing with audio is that as long as you're happy, stick with it.
 

daglesj

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Always amazed how many of these powered speaker makers make the mistake of putting the power switch on the back.
 

Format _C:

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I have been using a real receiver for many years now and I will never go back to regular PC speakers. My friend gave me a Denon S-301 that He could not get it to play a DVD or CD (the drawer was stuck but works fine once you get it open and put a disc inside) anyway I'm using the optical out on my Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite to the units optical in and this sounds way better then any PC speaker can hope to sound.
 

daglesj

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Switches that arent ugly are expensive. My thoughts.

In this day and age when you can probably get the most amazing looking switch made in China for like 10 cents per 1000 I'd say that was a weak reason. Plus ease of use...priceless!
 

B00nie

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Always amazed how many of these powered speaker makers make the mistake of putting the power switch on the back.
Just leave them on. Problem solved. They'll use a couple of watts on idle and the components will live longer when not cycled on and off all the time. My JBL 305's which are in my tv setup never get switched off.
 

daglesj

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Just leave them on. Problem solved. They'll use a couple of watts on idle and the components will live longer when not cycled on and off all the time. My JBL 305's which are in my tv setup never get switched off.

Yeah that "just leave it on" mentality isn't really helping going forward.
 

travm

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In this day and age when you can probably get the most amazing looking switch made in China for like 10 cents per 1000 I'd say that was a weak reason. Plus ease of use...priceless!
Yes, but you can get the ugliest switch for 0.00001 cents per 1000, so do the math.
 

daglesj

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Why not? There's no reason to switch them off.
That the wrong side of history argument. "It's muh raht to leave mu stuff orn!"

Why not just leave everything on if your parents are paying for it?
 

B00nie

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That the wrong side of history argument. "It's muh raht to leave mu stuff orn!"

Why not just leave everything on if your parents are paying for it?
You can't afford the annual 10 cents it costs you? ROFL! You'll save much more money when your gear doesn't get streseed from continuous on/off cycles.
 

Algrim

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Unless your powered speakers are Class A powered the electrical usage is negligible.
 

celwin

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Are you dead set on pc specific speakers? Once you go studio monitors route, you will Never go back to pc specific speakers. Monitor speakers will sound much better than any of the afore mentioned pc speakers. And you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good pair. The only time you should not consider studio monitor speakers is if you need surround sound or you don't have the space for them.
 

Format _C:

2[H]4U
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Are you dead set on pc specific speakers? Once you go studio monitors route, you will Never go back to pc specific speakers. Monitor speakers will sound much better than any of the afore mentioned pc speakers. And you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good pair. The only time you should not consider studio monitor speakers is if you need surround sound or you don't have the space for them.

Or use a real receiver and good speakers once I got my Denon I'm never going back to speakers built for PC uses.
 

Zepher

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Not sure what these go for used, but I am using a pair of Alesis M1 Active MK2's that I have had for almost 20 years now. They were around $400 for the pair back in the day.

IMG_0373.JPEG
 

Commander Shepard

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iLoud Micro Monitors are an excellent choice for small great sounding powered speakers. They normally go for $299, but frequently can be had for $199 on sale. I got mine for $180 (open box) shipped from Musician's Friend during a Black Friday sale, last month. I use them, along with a Schiit Fulla, with my iPad Pro.

PXL_20201208_031225960.jpg
 
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Troxx

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Buy a set of used Logitech Z5500 for 50$ ... I got 4 in use of theese sets and they are solid. I also use them in garage :)
 

Commander Shepard

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/end thread

Really, there's no need to spend more money than this.
If you want to preserve your bank account, buy the Promedia 2.1 and never come back to this part of [H]. I had the Promedia many years ago and loved them. Then, I made the tragic error of looking in the Computer Audio thread. It launched me on a maddening quest for ever better audio. I've spent well over $5000 in upgraded amps, dacs, speakers, receivers, etc. over the years. Others here have spent considerably more. My current setup is excellent for me, but my bank account will never forgive me for the abuse I've inflicted on it. :banghead::ROFLMAO:
 

B00nie

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If you want to preserve your bank account, buy the Promedia 2.1 and never come back to this part of [H]. I had the Promedia many years ago and loved them. Then, I made the tragic error of looking in the Computer Audio thread. It launched me on a maddening quest for ever better audio. I've spent well over $5000 in upgraded amps, dacs, speakers, receivers, etc. over the years. Others here have spent considerably more. My current setup is excellent for me, but my bank account will never forgive me for the abuse I've inflicted on it. :banghead::ROFLMAO:
You could have saved a lot by just getting a pair of Genelecs or other pro near field monitors. Hifi speakers are generally not designed for near field so their balance will be off when listened close.
 

Commander Shepard

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You could have saved a lot by just getting a pair of Genelecs or other pro near field monitors. Hifi speakers are generally not designed for near field so their balance will be off when listened close.
I tried a few studio monitors from KRK, Tannoy and JBL but none of them really won me over. Never listened to a Genelec, though. Damn! Now you've got me curious.

This is what I mean, OP. Run away from here while you still can!! :arghh:
 
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UnknownSouljer

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Studio Monitors are generally not what I would recommend to people for general listening unless in general you like highly analytical sound.
Good studio monitors will reveal all the garbage in crappy recordings and frankly there is a lot out there. More or less all of Youtube. More musicians are producing, mixing, and mastering all their own stuff (with their limited equipment, knowledge, and experience) and tons of that is up on Spotify and/or other streaming platforms (Bandcamp, Apple Music, etc).
It frankly might ruin your enjoyment of certain things you thought were fine or perhaps even liked before. Loud speakers tend to try to make things sound "good" and/or "pleasant" and are in general far less accurate and seek to just give people a nice listening experience. Accuracy still "can" be a part of this equation (as an example accuracy as defined by a standard like Dolby or THX) but that form of accuracy is more just about being able to reproduce a spectrum of frequencies and not necessarily the exact sound(s) the engineers intended. However this whole subject is a quagmire and it's virtually impossible to hear things as they were engineered. For most people a loud speaker is generally what is desired (all home theater speakers as an example would be classified as a loud speaker).

That said, I'd recommend looking at Yamaha HS8's or iLoud MTM's for "entry level" studio monitors that are actually worth a damn (generally things that cost less than these two, including lesser models in the same product lines are not nearly as good). I've never really liked KRK for this purpose. Genelec is still generally though of as a top end monitor, but there are tons of others that fit this space. The general issue with Genelecs of course is that there is no replacement for displacement. Their relatively tiny drivers can only do so much - but of course being small they can be controlled to an incredibly accurate degree (as well as produce much higher frequency waves much more easily and accurately).

---

As for the op's question, I would probably get the Promedia 2.1's honestly. At that price they'll be pretty hard to beat. Another option is the Harman and Kardon Soundstick III's that are very good for the money (despite what Apple haters might think). Otherwise getting a cheap bookshelf speaker setup would/could also work. That takes more time and effort. For the best bang for the buck you're generally waiting for nicer, pricier, speakers to go on sale and picking them up when they're in your price range and pairing them with a decent DAC/AMP.

Edit: the Edifiers should be totally fine for your purposes.
 
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atarione

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I love used vintage gear / used gear... blah blah near field... and granting in my case my ears are far from "golden" ... lots of exposure to loud LOUD farm machinery as a kid / guns firing while hunting ..etc... and a lot of REALLY loud concerts with no ear plugs in college / my 20s and 30s....

I have Yamaha NS-344 ($40 used /estate sale) 10" 3 ways by my computer (probably closer than is ideal certainly) and JBL L1's ($40 used) // NHT SuperZero's ($50 on from hifi forum) as well as some $20 MK SX-7 speakers from a thrift store) on my desk... for $150 in speakers these provide a wide range of sound signatures / experience my whole set up is less than $400 bucks (due in no small part to very good luck awhile ago...) absolutely love my vintage / used home stereo gear... (NOT INCLUDING DV-336/ headphone gear in that $400 figure btw)

However.... I'm glad I got all this stuff before a global pandemic struck or whatever... if I had "nothing" right now I'd get some powered monitors (try to listen to them first as some are quite no fun to just "listen" to) or the Edifiers mentioned earlier... till the pandemic ends then maybe start shopping around for vintage hifi /stereo equipment.

The ROI for me on my used gear / enjoyment is off the charts for the little money I've got into this gear.
 

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B00nie

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Studio Monitors are generally not what I would recommend to people for general listening unless in general you like highly analytical sound.
Good studio monitors will reveal all the garbage in crappy recordings and frankly there is a lot out there. More or less all of Youtube. More musicians are producing, mixing, and mastering all their own stuff (with their limited equipment, knowledge, and experience) and tons of that is up on Spotify and/or other streaming platforms (Bandcamp, Apple Music, etc).
It frankly might ruin your enjoyment of certain things you thought were fine or perhaps even liked before. Loud speakers tend to try to make things sound "good" and/or "pleasant" and are in general far less accurate and seek to just give people a nice listening experience. Accuracy still "can" be a part of this equation (as an example accuracy as defined by a standard like Dolby or THX) but that form of accuracy is more just about being able to reproduce a spectrum of frequencies and not necessarily the exact sound(s) the engineers intended. However this whole subject is a quagmire and it's virtually impossible to hear things as they were engineered. For most people a loud speaker is generally what is desired (all home theater speakers as an example would be classified as a loud speaker).

That said, I'd recommend looking at Yamaha HS8's or iLoud MTM's for "entry level" studio monitors that are actually worth a damn (generally things that cost less than these two, including lesser models in the same product lines are not nearly as good). I've never really liked KRK for this purpose. Genelec is still generally though of as a top end monitor, but there are tons of others that fit this space. The general issue with Genelecs of course is that there is no replacement for displacement. Their relatively tiny drivers can only do so much - but of course being small they can be controlled to an incredibly accurate degree (as well as produce much higher frequency waves much more easily and accurately).

---

As for the op's question, I would probably get the Promedia 2.1's honestly. At that price they'll be pretty hard to beat. Another option is the Harman and Kardon Soundstick III's that are very good for the money (despite what Apple haters might think). Otherwise getting a cheap bookshelf speaker setup would/could also work. That takes more time and effort. For the best bang for the buck you're generally waiting for nicer, pricier, speakers to go on sale and picking them up when they're in your price range and pairing them with a decent DAC/AMP.

Edit: the Edifiers should be totally fine for your purposes.
It's the other way around. Since studio monitors are used for producing the music and the musicians / master techinians tune the sound using them, you get exactly what they inteded the sound to sound like. Analytical and exact are the meaning of hi-fi. High Fidelity. If your gear alters the sound, it's no longer considered hifi.

If the artist wanted your sound to sound like from a bottom of a barrel covered with a blanket, they would do so in studio.
 

UnknownSouljer

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It's the other way around. Since studio monitors are used for producing the music and the musicians / master techinians tune the sound using them, you get exactly what they inteded the sound to sound like. Analytical and exact are the meaning of hi-fi. High Fidelity. If your gear alters the sound, it's no longer considered hifi.

If the artist wanted your sound to sound like from a bottom of a barrel covered with a blanket, they would do so in studio.
I think our definitions are very different. But I still disagree with you on principle for the reasons I mentioned but I'll break them down into two hopefully more clear thoughts:

1.) The reason why most people generally prefer a loud speaker is because they're very forgiving and/or will have a sound signature they prefer. People like vinyl records for this reason, they're highly 'inaccurate' in comparison to CD's, but they sound "warm" due to their distinctive midrange hump. This also goes with another corollary that most people don't know anything about audio to being with. Even in "so-called" hi-fi circles just try getting into a discussion with someone that "flat response" speakers sound the best, and they'll reply: "no EQ's make everything sound better" not realizing that a "flat response" speaker means all parts of the range are represented equally, meaning you can get closer to hearing things as intended. Instead most will opt to boost midrange or bass on an EQ using whatever they have thinking that makes things sound "good". All of this stuff is colored. And we could go down the signal chain pointing out that every item you use that isn't what the original artist used will make your audio sound different. From soundcard/processing, DAC/AMP, to speakers. Knowing that and knowing by nature it's not feasible to own 100's of speakers or to find out what ever thing was mixed on or to switch speakers every time a song switches -- at some level you will always have to accept that you're not, nor ever going to hear what the artist heard. That is if 100% accuracy is your goal. Most are not only fine with that, they're not even thinking about it and are blissfully happy with a "colored sound" that they like with much less emphasis on accuracy. Whether you agree or not is another matter entirely - I'm just pointing out this is another school of thought.

2.) You skipped over this second thought entirely: a lot of what people listen to today isn't engineered or mastered properly. It's people making content or producing their own music in a garage. Let's be real, a proper studio monitor is going to reveal all the cracks in recordings on Bandcamp. Fullstop. It will do the same for independent music creators on Youtube Music, Spotify, and the rest of the streaming lot as well. It will reveal all the crappy mixing done on people's YouTube or Vimeo content. There is no way you can slice this to say that it will "sound better". And again, what most people think "sounds better" is generally very subjective. If all you ever watch is broadcast TV, music from labels, and fully finished movies you'll be fine. The reality is that that isn't most of what people listen to anymore. If you're an audio tech that loves analytical sound you'll love studio monitors for daily use. I'm just saying there is a big reason that most normal people don't (and shouldn't) go that route even if they are spending equivalent amounts of money.

In the 40's-90's when everything you listened to was mixed and mastered properly (TV, radio, movies, records) sure accuracy was a good way to go (although I would argue inside of this whole post and the entire point is that there are other schools of thought). Now, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for the general public opting for something that simply "sounds good" - and when you realize most people listen to music because they like it and it has little to do with accuracy (lets be real, again most people don't know what "accurate" sounds like or why that's "better" in any way shape or form). Most are used to listening to music that's compressed (via some streaming service), on headphones that came with their phone or perhaps they bought some convenient wireless headphones and/or they use a HTIB while at home - and frankly the general consumer is happy with that. And they would be much less happy with something that shows their favorite independent artist doesn't know how to mix properly and their favorite "makeup tutorial" YouTube channel has tinny crap $50 microphones.
 
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B00nie

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1) What is this midrange hump you refer to in LP's? Any sources on that? :) I prefer large barn door size electrostatic panels for the exact reason that they provide a VERY accurate reproduction of sound. Sure bad recordings will sound just as bad as they are. But so do the good ones respectively.
2) So your solution to 'fixing' badly mastered recordings is to mess them up even more by playing them with subpar gear that muds up the sound? Doesn't compute to me. In fact many of the scratchy recordings from 50's and 60's start to sound awesome when you play them through ESL's. Mainly because they've often been stereo mic'ed in real acoustics and the ESLs will make you feel like you're inside the performing space. Opposed to studio recordings which usually either lack real spatial information, have a faked one or worse, are a mix of many different room signatures.

A recording of a bad microphone will not sound any better if you play it through a bad speaker. Most likely it will only sound even worse. Perhaps EQ's, rounded up and limited sound may sound more pleasant in some cases. But hey, you could also use EQ on your good system to fix that single bad recording if it's so important. And no, I don't even own an EQ in the traditional sense. Only a DSP crossover which getrs adjusted by time gated fourier-transform measurements.
 
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Studio Monitors are generally not what I would recommend to people for general listening unless in general you like highly analytical sound.
Good studio monitors will reveal all the garbage in crappy recordings and frankly there is a lot out there. More or less all of Youtube. More musicians are producing, mixing, and mastering all their own stuff (with their limited equipment, knowledge, and experience) and tons of that is up on Spotify and/or other streaming platforms (Bandcamp, Apple Music, etc).
It frankly might ruin your enjoyment of certain things you thought were fine or perhaps even liked before. Loud speakers tend to try to make things sound "good" and/or "pleasant" and are in general far less accurate and seek to just give people a nice listening experience. Accuracy still "can" be a part of this equation (as an example accuracy as defined by a standard like Dolby or THX) but that form of accuracy is more just about being able to reproduce a spectrum of frequencies and not necessarily the exact sound(s) the engineers intended. However this whole subject is a quagmire and it's virtually impossible to hear things as they were engineered. For most people a loud speaker is generally what is desired (all home theater speakers as an example would be classified as a loud speaker).

That said, I'd recommend looking at Yamaha HS8's or iLoud MTM's for "entry level" studio monitors that are actually worth a damn (generally things that cost less than these two, including lesser models in the same product lines are not nearly as good). I've never really liked KRK for this purpose. Genelec is still generally though of as a top end monitor, but there are tons of others that fit this space. The general issue with Genelecs of course is that there is no replacement for displacement. Their relatively tiny drivers can only do so much - but of course being small they can be controlled to an incredibly accurate degree (as well as produce much higher frequency waves much more easily and accurately).

---

As for the op's question, I would probably get the Promedia 2.1's honestly. At that price they'll be pretty hard to beat. Another option is the Harman and Kardon Soundstick III's that are very good for the money (despite what Apple haters might think). Otherwise getting a cheap bookshelf speaker setup would/could also work. That takes more time and effort. For the best bang for the buck you're generally waiting for nicer, pricier, speakers to go on sale and picking them up when they're in your price range and pairing them with a decent DAC/AMP.

Edit: the Edifiers should be totally fine for your purposes.

I think studio monitors get a bad rap because so much music has been mixed on crappy monitors. Studio monitors are just powered speakers marketed at music producers. Like passive speakers you get a wide range of products with different abilities and there's a pretty wide overlap in passive/active. If you can obtain them, looking at independent, third party CEA-2034 (Spinorama) measurements along with a breakdown of vertical and horizontal directivity pattern graphs will encapsulate the majority of relevant speaker performance metrics. Get the best measuring speakers you can, with the most uniform directivity possible (and thus the most EQ-agnostic) and then pair that would some good room correction and you will get where you need to IMO, be it passive or active.
 

UnknownSouljer

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I think studio monitors get a bad rap because so much music has been mixed on crappy monitors. Studio monitors are just powered speakers marketed at music producers. Like passive speakers you get a wide range of products with different abilities and there's a pretty wide overlap in passive/active. If you can obtain them, looking at independent, third party CEA-2034 (Spinorama) measurements along with a breakdown of vertical and horizontal directivity pattern graphs will encapsulate the majority of relevant speaker performance metrics. Get the best measuring speakers you can, with the most uniform directivity possible (and thus the most EQ-agnostic) and then pair that would some good room correction and you will get where you need to IMO, be it passive or active.
I think both you and B00nie misunderstand my posts. I'm simply saying that most people don't prefer precise or analytical sound. And that there is preference involved here.
If people as a general rule did like analytical and accurate sound then they would do research and certain companies like BOSE wouldn't exist. Most folks just want audio that sounds good to them, however that is defined and that is mostly colored audio that meets their preference (a lot of people like audio that is "V" shaped, or bass heavy, or has emphasizes mids, etc etc). While I agree that Studio Monitors are just like any nearfield speaker but designed for a specific purpose, there is a reason why general consumers don't buy them beyond price. However, even if flat neutral response is an individuals preference, it's out of the price range that most can afford, and certainly out of a $150 price range - making this entire conversation not relevant to the OP.

As a corollary there also is no such thing as perfect sound reproduction. If there was there would be one end all be all speaker and everyone would just mix on that - but as it stands most studios will go through a number of different monitors to test what things sound like on different setups. A lot of producers will also test what their audio sounds like beyond that as well to consumer grade hardware.

I took the posts with B00nie to PM. Again, this is beyond the scope of this thread and frankly it's not useful to the OP.
 
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