Advice on my WHS plan

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Firefox90

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
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I just wanted to get your thoughts on my plan for my WHS. If you could guide me in the right direction, that would be great.

I don't want to mess around with RAID. I tried using XP with Syncback to duplicate my 2x500gb drive files, but it was just a pain in the butt with it choking on certain file types and what not.

I got WHS. I have WHS installed with my OS drive (120gb) and 1 500gb drive installed right now. The 500gb is mapped as a storage drive right now. I have the 2nd 500gb sitting on my desk with an exact copy of all my files stored on my old XP setup. Here are my choices:

Choice 1:
-Use 2nd 500gb as storage and enable folder duplication on all folders (~600gb of storage)
-Buy 1tb drive and enable it as a server backup drive

Choice 2:
-Use 2nd 500gb as storage with no file duplication (~1tb of storage)
-Buy 1tb drive and enable it as server backup drive

What do you guys think is most effective for simply having a second backup copy of everything?

Also, I would not want to run the 1tb 24x7. If there was a way, I would run it internal and simply turn it on around once a week and backup the server. I don't know of any way to do that though so would external be the way to go?

One other thing. How does WHS do with sleeping (probably throughout the night for me) and either waking at a certain time or waking on network activity? I just think it would ease the wear on the drives.

Thanks guys!
 
Some of the specifics your looking for I can not help you with. But I can say that WHS is like Vista, so the "Leave It Alone" way of thinking applies here. Just install all of the drives you want, make sure they are all recognized by the WHS console as storage drives, turn on file duplication for the folders you want to have duplicates of, and then just leave it to its own devices. You cant really add drives and have them do different things, WHS just sees how big each drive is, then simply adds that space to its storage "pool". You dont have to do anything. Its really rather foolproof.
 
Agreed.

Buy Seagate drives.. I have been running them for years, best quality. Don't worry about running 24/7.
 
Firefox90 said:
I just wanted to get your thoughts on my plan for my WHS. If you could guide me in the right direction, that would be great.

I don't want to mess around with RAID. I tried using XP with Syncback to duplicate my 2x500gb drive files, but it was just a pain in the butt with it choking on certain file types and what not.

I got WHS. I have WHS installed with my OS drive (120gb) and 1 500gb drive installed right now. The 500gb is mapped as a storage drive right now. I have the 2nd 500gb sitting on my desk with an exact copy of all my files stored on my old XP setup. Here are my choices:

Choice 1:
-Use 2nd 500gb as storage and enable folder duplication on all folders (~600gb of storage)
-Buy 1tb drive and enable it as a server backup drive

Choice 2:
-Use 2nd 500gb as storage with no file duplication (~1tb of storage)
-Buy 1tb drive and enable it as server backup drive

What do you guys think is most effective for simply having a second backup copy of everything?

Also, I would not want to run the 1tb 24x7. If there was a way, I would run it internal and simply turn it on around once a week and backup the server. I don't know of any way to do that though so would external be the way to go?

One other thing. How does WHS do with sleeping (probably throughout the night for me) and either waking at a certain time or waking on network activity? I just think it would ease the wear on the drives.

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Put all the drives in the WHS in the storage pool and set everything to be duplicated...this will maximize your space and will also protect you from disk failures better because if you have everything duplicated and your OS drive dies you can recover easier and wont lose anything. The server backup option is nice but unless you are really paranoid or have super important stuff then its not needed if you have things duplicated. Also only buy Seagate 1tb they rock and can run 24/7 no problem.

I know you said you wont run it 24/7 and yes there are ways to put your WHS to sleep and wake it up based on time/WOL etc....there are some add-ins check www.wegotserved.co.uk for that stuff.
 
If you're not past the point of no return - WHS suggests your largest hard drive for the OS drive (the remainder is the landing area for files). I'd consider rebuilding with one of the 500gb drives as OS, the second 500gb in the pool, and buy another large drive when you need it and add it to the pool. I'd probably ditch the 120gb drive, or maybe use it temporarily until I got another large drive.

Turn on duplication for only the folders you want duplicated. Let WHS take care of the rest.

Keep in mind duplication is not a backup in the truest sense and it protects you from a drive failure only. If something takes out your whole WHS box (virus, fire, theft) then you are screwed and will have to rely on a true backup (you do have this?).
 
[LYL]Homer;1033226887 said:
If you're not past the point of no return - WHS suggests your largest hard drive for the OS drive (the remainder is the landing area for files).
Click to expand...

Yes and no. People need to completely IGNORE all data written prior to the first power pack. I don't care how many times somebody pounds their hands...the DE has changed significantly.

THERE IS NO LANDING PAD ANYMORE. The data will automatically be put on the correct drive. This was part of the fix for the data corruption issue. I have posted on this many times before...search for threads with my user name and WHS and you will probably find them. I am reshowing the image for clarity. In short, this is me writing a large file to WHS and it is going to correct drive per the new DE rules (notice it is not the OS drive)

whs_data_writing.jpg


However, there is still a "bug" in WHS that might cause issues. That condition is "the free space on data partition with the OS drive determines the largest file that can be written to WHS". Therefore if you manage to pack full the drive with the OS on it and still have space on other drives, you may not be able to write. Considering that WHS has 10GB/20GB limits for the drive extender moving data around, this should rarely happen unless you copy large blocks of data at a time (like 100's of GB) or are operating your server at near maximum data capacity. Another case is where you have a super large drive and a small OS drive with duplication turned on. You might very well fill you OS drive and thus stop writes.

If you never want to see this "bug" occur, just make sure the OS drive always has a good chunk of space left. If you want to run a small OS drive, just make sure you have at least two additional LARGE drives if you want to use folder duplication. This will absolutely minimize the amount of data on the OS drive and thus keep you clear of the bug.

EDIT: I have no idea if this bug has been fixed yet, however the rumor mill a couple months ago at the official site was "no". But to the original comment, it is a good idea to make your first drive the largest...but it isn't critical like before.
 
Good info there. I can comment on the backup drive as I use a 500GB external USB drive on my WHS. This works very well for an off-site backup. Uou have the option of selecting the shares to backup so you may be able to use a smaller drive if you don’t need a backup of all of your files. As for doing this with an internal drive I would suggest using a drive caddy/bay so you can pull the drive out when not in use.
 
Wow...great information here.

I am planning running duplication on probably everything except maybe DVD rips. I am not sure if I want to do that yet. It is probably worth doing since storage is cheap and time is not.

Trep,
Let me just make sure I understand. You said, "Another case is where you have a super large drive and a small OS drive with duplication turned on. You might very well fill you OS drive and thus stop writes." This would only be the case if I was running the 120gb system drive and 1 500gb data drive with duplication on correct? Since I am running at least 2x500gb, I should be fine (if I am understanding correctly).

The only thing that worries me is because you can't control what files go to which drive in WHS, the 120gb system drive may get filled up quickly, slow things down, cause transfer issues.

The 120gb drive is probably 5 years old now. I have had it since I bought my old AMD64 3200+ S754. Probably not a good idea to run that in a server now that you mention it. I just figured it would be easiest to deal with a corrupted OS drive or a OS drive failure if it was on a smaller drive and with less data to be lost.

I am going to be making some drive purchases soon. What would the best route be?
-drop the 120gb, install WHS on 1 of the 500gb drives
-buy another small OS drive and use the 2x500gb simply as storage
-something I am not thinking of

As far as backup goes, one of my original thoughts was either an external 1tb or a 1tb in a drive caddy so I could make it off site. I don't think I want to use the 1tb as storage because I would have to have another larger drive for backup. Using the 1tb allows me to fully backup the full 500gb (because of duplication on both 500gb drives) plus allows for another 2x500gb pair or one 1tb drive to be added in the future for data.

Here is what I am thinking right now assuming I drop the small drive.
-2x500gb drives with OS installed on one and both used as data drives with duplication
-1 1tb drive external or drive caddy set specifically as backup when added to WHS

Sorry for being long winded guys. I just want to make sure I get this right before I start dumping a ton of stuff on the server and it becomes cumbersome to change. I really appreciate all of the advice.

7200.11 with 5 year warranty is the way to go right? Link

I am using an old Dell 1.8ghz PC with no SATA. Right now I have the 2x500gb hooked up with a Rosewill PCI SATA 150 controller. If I was to do hot swap with the 1tb, I would need another PCI card. Or I could just deal with USB and an external drive. I would pay for the external enclosure anyways. Might as well go with hotswap.
 
Firefox90 said:
Let me just make sure I understand. You said, "Another case is where you have a super large drive and a small OS drive with duplication turned on. You might very well fill you OS drive and thus stop writes." This would only be the case if I was running the 120gb system drive and 1 500gb data drive with duplication on correct? Since I am running at least 2x500gb, I should be fine (if I am understanding correctly).
Click to expand...

Yes, you got it. As a point for others...if you plan on using duplication for nearly everything, I would recommend adding drives in pairs. It will limit the amount of work the drive extender and the file migrator has to do.

Firefox90 said:
The only thing that worries me is because you can't control what files go to which drive in WHS, the 120gb system drive may get filled up quickly, slow things down, cause transfer issues.
Click to expand...

This has always been an issue with WHS. People have made some pluggins to help you see which files are on which drvie...but it is still a crapshoot if you do a "copy" to move them. My guess the reason why somebody hasn't made a good balancing pluggin is because they can't or it is not trivial anymore. Maybe I'm wrong and just haven't looked hard enough.

In WHS, you used to have the ability to set the two threshold limits (1GB & 20GB right now) in the registry...that is gone now with the power pack. When we had the ability to screw with those thresholds you could bascially force a radical rebalance by making the thresholds a very large number (lets say 300GB on a 750GB drive). This would thus move data off a full drive onto a new empty drive. We don't have this anymore. The limits are just too small with modern drives and thus put is in a pickle with todays multi-terabyte boxes. I am unsure at this time if this loss of feature has been added back in.

Firefox90 said:
As far as backup goes, one of my original thoughts was either an external 1tb or a 1tb in a drive caddy so I could make it off site. I don't think I want to use the 1tb as storage because I would have to have another larger drive for backup. Using the 1tb allows me to fully backup the full 500gb (because of duplication on both 500gb drives) plus allows for another 2x500gb pair or one 1tb drive to be added in the future for data.
Click to expand...

This is fairly sound logic. You are one of the few people I have seen actually using the new backup feature with the power pack. However, why do you need duplication if you have a backup? I'm not criticizing...just making sure you ask yourself the questions that need to be asked. Think it through before replying because I can see multiple answers to my question.

------------------

As to everyone reading this...please do NOT take my criticisms of WHS as a reason not to get it. They are just that...criticisms. WHS is a great product...but every great product always has room for improvement. I have no doubt that the people who made WHS are aware of everyone one of these issues. I just hope they roll them into WHS2 (based upon server 2008).
 
Firefox90 said:
Let me just make sure I understand. You said, "Another case is where you have a super large drive and a small OS drive with duplication turned on. You might very well fill you OS drive and thus stop writes." This would only be the case if I was running the 120gb system drive and 1 500gb data drive with duplication on correct? Since I am running at least 2x500gb, I should be fine (if I am understanding correctly).
Click to expand...

Was an issue in the past, not so much anymore. WHS wont let you fill your system drive to to brim before offloading to other drives. If in the event all your drives are flled to 94% (WHS threshold), then it will start to top off the drives.

The idea of having a large drive as your system drive also comes into the fact that it's not easy to upgrade the system drive as easy as it is to upgrade a data drive, so getting a large system drive early on is a good idea.

Firefox90 said:
The only thing that worries me is because you can't control what files go to which drive in WHS, the 120gb system drive may get filled up quickly, slow things down, cause transfer issues.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I have not noticed a performance hit by having a filled system drive. Power Pack addressed some of the performance issues with having a stocked system drive. As for choosing which drive, you don't really have a choice, but WHS prioritize the data drives over the system drives.

Firefox90 said:
The 120gb drive is probably 5 years old now. I have had it since I bought my old AMD64 3200+ S754. Probably not a good idea to run that in a server now that you mention it. I just figured it would be easiest to deal with a corrupted OS drive or a OS drive failure if it was on a smaller drive and with less data to be lost.
Click to expand...

If you used the backup feature or the duplication feature, this should be a non issue. You can always run Acronis or something similar and make an image of your system.

Firefox90 said:
I am going to be making some drive purchases soon. What would the best route be?
-drop the 120gb, install WHS on 1 of the 500gb drives
-buy another small OS drive and use the 2x500gb simply as storage
-something I am not thinking of
Go with the biggest drive you can afford and run that as your system drive, before you know it you will be adding a bunch of other drives so having high density is critical.


Firefox90 said:
7200.11 with 5 year warranty is the way to go right? Link
Click to expand...

Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Here's another idea:

1tb system drive (new)
500gb pool drive
500gb external backup

This gives you 500gb duplicated and another ~410gb of non-duplicated storage (less 20gb OS partition and formatting), and your dup'd data can also be backed up on your external solution.
 
Trepidati0n said:
This is fairly sound logic. You are one of the few people I have seen actually using the new backup feature with the power pack. However, why do you need duplication if you have a backup? I'm not criticizing...just making sure you ask yourself the questions that need to be asked. Think it through before replying because I can see multiple answers to my question.
Click to expand...

That is a good question. Part of it is me just being anal with my data. Part of it is my worry of something going funky on WHS and it somehow wiping out both drives. Now that I think about it more, it is probably pretty low risk. I haven't had a virus on any of my Windows computers for quite a few years and am pretty careful on what I download and what not. None of that would be happening on WHS anyways. With that logic, here is what I would do:

-Pull the 120gb
-Run 2x500gb (1 as system and data (as per Ockie's recommendation), other as data
-No duplication; the 2x500gb give me a around 900gb or so for storage
-1tb hot-swap drive used weekly with backup feature

How does that sound? Keeps storage on easy increments with the 500s and 1tb. I can easily add 2 1tb drives later for storage and full backup. That sounds well thought out thanks to you guys.

--------

Any recommendations for single drive SATA hot-swap bay? I have never used a hot-swap bay and am really not familiar with brands, good designs, bad designs, etc.

Have you guys ever done a restore from a backup drive for WHS? Is it a smooth process?

Looking again, the 1tb 7200.11 seems to have a pretty high failure rate on Newegg. I am partial to Seagate with their 5yr warranty and history, but the reviews on Newegg are pretty scary. Options:
1) WD 1tb Black (5yr warranty, pretty highly reviewed)
2) Seagate 1.5tb (5yr warranty, seems more solid than 1tb, 500gb more room, break the 1tb increments)

Thanks Trepidati0n, Ockie, Homer and everyone else. All of the information has been extremely helpful.
 
Firefox90 said:
That is a good question. Part of it is me just being anal with my data. Part of it is my worry of something going funky on WHS and it somehow wiping out both drives. Now that I think about it more, it is probably pretty low risk. I haven't had a virus on any of my Windows computers for quite a few years and am pretty careful on what I download and what not. None of that would be happening on WHS anyways. With that logic, here is what I would do:

-Pull the 120gb
-Run 2x500gb (1 as system and data (as per Ockie's recommendation), other as data
-No duplication; the 2x500gb give me a around 900gb or so for storage
-1tb hot-swap drive used weekly with backup feature

How does that sound? Keeps storage on easy increments with the 500s and 1tb. I can easily add 2 1tb drives later for storage and full backup. That sounds well thought out thanks to you guys.

--------

Any recommendations for single drive SATA hot-swap bay? I have never used a hot-swap bay and am really not familiar with brands, good designs, bad designs, etc.

Have you guys ever done a restore from a backup drive for WHS? Is it a smooth process?

Looking again, the 1tb 7200.11 seems to have a pretty high failure rate on Newegg. I am partial to Seagate with their 5yr warranty and history, but the reviews on Newegg are pretty scary. Options:
1) WD 1tb Black (5yr warranty, pretty highly reviewed)
2) Seagate 1.5tb (5yr warranty, seems more solid than 1tb, 500gb more room, break the 1tb increments)

Thanks Trepidati0n, Ockie, Homer and everyone else. All of the information has been extremely helpful.
Click to expand...

That all sounds great...but why not leave the 120gb in the system? Not as the system drive but just for some more storage, or use it as another backup drive for your really important items.

Also I would go with the Seagates, Reviews on newegg arent worth shit...half those people dont actually own the products, some are just blowing smoke....Also DO NOT BUY DRIVES FROM NEWEGG.....they have shitty packaging and thats probly why those peoples drives failed. I buy drives from ZZF
 
I actually pulled the 120gb from my main desktop as a primary drive. 900gb will be plenty of storage anyways. I would have buy a replacement for that if I don't put that back.

I have had terrible experiences with ZZF. I am not going to buy from them again. They have some good deals occasionally, but their service sucks. Who else is good for drives besides ZZF?
 
not to hijack the thread, but it's good to hear WHS being adopted more and more. I just ordered a trial CD from MS, so will get to mess with it myself. I presently have:

- 2X (320GB Seagate IDE)
- 5X (1.5TB Seagate SATA)
- 1X (WD 160GB SATA)

How should i prep them (OS/Data/etc. wise)? I will run this primarily as a Media Server (doesn't need much backup) with around 6TB of data.
 
S_T said:
not to hijack the thread, but it's good to hear WHS being adopted more and more. I just ordered a trial CD from MS, so will get to mess with it myself. I presently have:

- 2X (320GB Seagate IDE)
- 5X (1.5TB Seagate SATA)
- 1X (WD 160GB SATA)

How should i prep them (OS/Data/etc. wise)? I will run this primarily as a Media Server (doesn't need much backup) with around 6TB of data.
Click to expand...

I'd use one of the 1.5tb as the system drive just because the 320gb are older, and the 160 is a little small.
 
I wouldn't even install the 320's or the 160. You are bascially consuming a lot of power for no good reason. Each HDD running 24/7 costs about $10 a year to run. You would be much better off trying to sell the old ones in FS/FT and pick up another large drive or use the money to cover operating costs. I know it will suck to NOT use them just because you have them, I just wouldn't.

When installing WHS, install on a single 1.5TB (leave the other drives unplugged). I've been burned on this once and just find this easier now. This will allow you to make sure all your drivers are up and running before you try and build your pool.
 
I tried 3 or 4 times last night to install WHS on one of the 500gb drives. Because I have the drives hooked up to a PCI SATA controller, it requires drivers loaded. First time using the driver CD the computer just restarted. I then threw the drivers on a USB stick. Came back a while later and saw a blue screen. Third time it seemed to finish but came up with a message saying it couldn't format my USB stick and that there was a massive failure or something like that and that the installatino failed. It booted to the desktop and it was missing the console, etc. I rebooted and it started the final stages of installation again. That finished and everything was there, but it didn't seem to be running right. Last time, I tried with 2 optical drives (1 with WHS, 1 with drivers) and it somehow failed early on. I don't remember how.

I am going to try with a floppy drive tonight. I don't know what is going on. I didn't have any issues installing to the 120gb.

----

Any recommendations for single drive SATA hot-swap bay? I have never used a hot-swap bay and am really not familiar with brands, good designs, bad designs, etc.

Have you guys ever done a restore from a backup drive for WHS? Is it a smooth process?

Looking again, the 1tb 7200.11 seems to have a pretty high failure rate on Newegg. I am partial to Seagate with their 5yr warranty and history, but the reviews on Newegg are pretty scary. Options:
1) WD 1tb Black (5yr warranty, pretty highly reviewed)
2) Seagate 1.5tb (5yr warranty, seems more solid than 1tb, 500gb more room, break the 1tb increments)
 
Firefox90 said:
I tried 3 or 4 times last night to install WHS on one of the 500gb drives. Because I have the drives hooked up to a PCI SATA controller, it requires drivers loaded. First time using the driver CD the computer just restarted. I then threw the drivers on a USB stick. Came back a while later and saw a blue screen. Third time it seemed to finish but came up with a message saying it couldn't format my USB stick and that there was a massive failure or something like that and that the installatino failed. It booted to the desktop and it was missing the console, etc. I rebooted and it started the final stages of installation again. That finished and everything was there, but it didn't seem to be running right. Last time, I tried with 2 optical drives (1 with WHS, 1 with drivers) and it somehow failed early on. I don't remember how.

I am going to try with a floppy drive tonight. I don't know what is going on. I didn't have any issues installing to the 120gb.

----

Any recommendations for single drive SATA hot-swap bay? I have never used a hot-swap bay and am really not familiar with brands, good designs, bad designs, etc.

Have you guys ever done a restore from a backup drive for WHS? Is it a smooth process?

Looking again, the 1tb 7200.11 seems to have a pretty high failure rate on Newegg. I am partial to Seagate with their 5yr warranty and history, but the reviews on Newegg are pretty scary. Options:
1) WD 1tb Black (5yr warranty, pretty highly reviewed)
2) Seagate 1.5tb (5yr warranty, seems more solid than 1tb, 500gb more room, break the 1tb increments)
Click to expand...

Do you have onboard SATA ports? If so put the boot drive on those.
 
Firefox90 said:
1) WD 1tb Black (5yr warranty, pretty highly reviewed)
2) Seagate 1.5tb (5yr warranty, seems more solid than 1tb, 500gb more room, break the 1tb increments)
Click to expand...

Both 5 year warranty

The Seagate has a URE of 10^14 while the WD has 10^15

The Seagate can peak up to 3 Amps from 12V on startup while the WD is only 2.

The Seagate is $0.10/GB and the WD is $0.15/GB

If no duplication I would probably go the WD, if duplication probably the Seagate.
 
Trepidati0n said:
Both 5 year warranty

The Seagate has a URE of 10^14 while the WD has 10^15

The Seagate can peak up to 3 Amps from 12V on startup while the WD is only 2.

The Seagate is $0.10/GB and the WD is $0.15/GB

If no duplication I would probably go the WD, if duplication probably the Seagate.
Click to expand...

For compatibility reasons and future alternatives, I would go with the seagate.
 
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