Advice for a budget computer build.

marley1 · Jul 14, 2005

Hey guys -

I work at a local pc shop which is doing very well except for one aspects. Computers we sell.

Right now our "budget" machine which is just geared toward buisness apps consists of the following:

AMD 64 3000 or 3200 depending on sales, socket 939
MSI K8N without onboard and a X300 or a MSI/Radeon IGP with onboard
512mb Rosewill DDR, started using since with that Radeon board you get 2 512 sticks for an extra 70
then we put in a 80gig SATA usually Seagate but depends on sales
and the case is just a Black Antec Lifestyles.

We charge about 650-750 for these not including labor. Great computers with great results probably sold a few dozen but people want cheaper.

Most people see our estimates and then say "o but we see dells for 400 and so and so"

Being a small time shop no one can compete with dell.

What we want to do is get a computer to the 400-500 range. Something only for buisness, onboard vid is fine. 512 DDR is standard and the black Antec case must stay as they are easy to work in and look great.

We were thinking of a Sempron or Celeron system or something of that nature.

Not dealing alot with these cpus, we despise them, so we came here for advice.

We want Socket 754 if its hte AMD route, just because its mainstream, unless Socket A.

What do you guys recommend?

We need advice on really motherboard/cpu combo. The DDR Rosewill is cheap and works good. And harddrives are cheap.

Whats the best bang for the buck motherboard/cpu? We usually just go Asus or MSI, but again those are pricey. We want stable setups.

Thanks,
Dan

mrmagoo_83 · Jul 14, 2005

Thats a tough thing to deal with since Dell buys their stuff wholesale and in major bulk, therefore gets a big discount.

1) Where do you get your parts from so we can compare prices
2) Have you considered buying parts from multiple sites, I find this cheaper.
3) They may see a Dell for $400-$500, but that is a very baseline system that comes with absolutely jack. If they actually attempt to buy a PC from Dell the price goes up. Though Dell does some good work with their rebates, $600 off a $900 machine. But they make you pay that $900 upfront. Then they get to capitalize on the interest it earns, lol.

They are hard to compete with cause $400-$500 isn't a heck of a lot, and it definately wont get you far.

Give us a breakdown of your prices (or what you currently pay) and where you get them from, and we can see what we can do for you.

aetius · Jul 14, 2005

I've been thinking about a building a new computer for my mom so I've been looking into the same type of computer. This build gets you 512MB RAM and a DVD burner, something you don't get from Dell, Emachines, etc... Throw a cheap case in there and you have a system for well under $400 that you can sell for around $450 and still make a decent profit if you get a volume license from MS for WinXP.

BIOSTAR K8VGAM Socket 754 VIA K8M800 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Model #:K8VGAM $59.00

NEC Black IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3540A - OEM
Model #:ND-3540A Black $45.99

Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:WD800JD $56.50

pqi POWER Series 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model MD4412UOE - Retail Model #:MD4412UOE $39.75

AMD Sempron 2800+ Palermo 333MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA2800BABOX - Retail
Model #:SDA2800BABOX $83.00

SubTotal: $284.24

carl67lp · Jul 14, 2005

While I don't know a lot about the Semprons, I'd definitely look into those. Seems to me that most budget buyers don't need an Athlon 64 like what you're putting in. My own home computer "only" has a Venice 3000+ right now, and frankly it screams compared to my old XP 1700+. So, going to a Sempron might be your first step.

I also don't know for sure which S754 or S939 motherboards have onboard video, but I know when I built a budget computer for my uncle I used a MicroATX motherboard from Asus that had decent onboard video (MX440, I think). Worked fairly well. And of course you'll almost always have onboard sound nowadays, as well as onboard NICs and USB/Firewire.

So, look at the components you need for a PC build:

- Motherboard
- Processor
- Case/PSU
- Memory
- Hard drive(s)
- Optical drive(s)

Cutting prices on optical drives will be tough; heck, even a top-end NEC DVD burner will only set you back around $40. Hard drives are pretty cheap nowadays too--I just saw a great sale at Tiger Direct on SATA drives, in fact. Memory will be perhaps the toughest; unlike most other components, "newer models" don't come out and the prices can fluctuate wildly even within the same week. So perhaps you'll want to buy a few dozen sticks of RAM when you see a good price.

That leaves the case/PSU, motherboard and processor. I've built machines with Enlight cases/PSUs without much of an issue, and they're usually around $50 or so. Those aren't bad. I already mentioned the CPU (Sempron), and the fact that you'd want to do some hunting on the motherboard.

So let's see...

Socket 754 Sempron 3000+: $95
Case/PSU: $50
Optical drive: $40
Hard drive: ~$80
512MB RAM: $42
Motherboard: ~$100

That's right around $400. Of course, that's assuming you can find onboard video. If you can't, you could add around $25 or so for a Radeon 7000. After all, this is a budget machine.

So there ya go. Now, of course, this doesn't include Windows, so that's also a factor. If you're a system builder, perhaps there's a way to get volume discounts from Microsoft; I really don't know.

Best of luck to you!

forumposter32 · Jul 14, 2005

I started a thread in the AMD forum here which had a title like: "Anyone have links to Sempron benchmarks..." I had a long post in there with lots of information about budget CPUs. You must take a look at it if you want more information about what I'm about to say.

First, consider the Duron 1.8 GHz. It's allegedly an Athlon 2200+ with less cache. If you want to make sure you don't sacrifice too much in performance, you could get the Athlon 2700+. I know the Duron 1.8 GHz is sold by newegg.com and tigerdirect.com and .ca for about $43 US or $68. (There used to be a $20 CDN rebate on the tigerdirect.ca web site so it was even cheaper).

Next up is the socket 754 Athlon 64 2800+ (or possibly the Sempron 3100+ depending on where you buy). I saw a benchmark where the Sempron 3100+ was 3 fps under the 64 2800+. For more info:
http://www23.tomshardware.com
I saw a rebate on the Sempron 3100+ on tigerdirect that really made that worth it. But, rebates come and go and I cannot predict when they'll have one again.

I very carefully listed those in terms of performance and price: Duron 1.8 GHz, Athlon 2700+ (available on newegg) and then either one of the socket 754 CPUs. Trust me on that, lots of thinking behind that information.

\EDIT: Whoops, I forgot to add. The DFI KM266 Pro mATX mobo has onboard video.

marley1 · Jul 14, 2005

we buy everything from newegg. sometimes go to other resellers but newegg is the best in service which we like.

forumposter32 - i read your things and i think from a marketing standpoint we will probably going with a Sempron. Just because people see 2800+ and such and think faster.

Now that board you posted wasn't on newegg.

I found this board right here -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130480
There are a few MSI boards same name. Great price no more then 70 bucks.

CPU - AMD Sempron 2800+ - 83 bucks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104224

memory - Corsair Value Select 2x512 - good for 2 computers - 80 bucks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

Optical - Nec DVD burner, use them or the liteon and all comptuers and are great - 46
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152047

harddrive - 80gig Samsugn SATA - 60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152018

case - antec solution with 350, use all these cases, great to work in, good looks, 70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129148

floppy - nec or sony - 8 bucks

total is 445 shipped. So its about 400 a computer (ram is for both).

anyone see anyway to get this a bit cheaper? What about the ram? Corsair Value any good? Newegg seems to be out of that Rosewill PC3200 2x512 deal.

THanks,
Dan

mrmagoo_83 · Jul 14, 2005

Check out the prices at ZipZoomFly, they have memory and some other things a little cheaper than NewEgg sometimes, I have ordered from them on a number of occations and been very happy.

You might check out lite on DVDRs they may run cheaper.

MemoryInAGarden · Jul 14, 2005

A Celeron D cheap and a P4S800-MX is cheap and could probably be overclocked to as good as or better performance than the Sempron, but if you don't want to risk o/cing for these people, then there really is no choice but the Sempron. Celeron's just don't perform well enough at stock settings to justify getting over a Sempron.

marley1 · Jul 14, 2005

wont be overclocking as this is a consumer machine, and we want the reliability.

so i guess about 400 is bottom line the lowest to do for these kinds of machines. may be able to chave a little going from differn't vendors.

now if i pair oneo f these computers with a decent video card, side note a friend wants a cheap computer but plays fifa and tiger woods, would that be able to run it decently? Video card maybe like a 9600 pro or 9800 pro refurb./

What do u think?

Any more opions?

forumposter32 · Jul 14, 2005

Is there any way I can convince you to go with the Athlon XP 2700+?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103341
It gives you better performance than the Sempron 2800+ AND you can say it's an Athlon.
It's also $81.

See benchmark here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103341

Furthermore, you can save a lot by buying a less expensive PSU. The Enermax noisetaker 370 watt model is $44.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103444
What are you doing paying $70 for an Antec? There's a power supply forum here that can help you find other power supplies under $50 if you don't trust Enermax. Gee, that's money wasted in my opinion.

forumposter32 · Jul 14, 2005

Russ said:
$70 for psu and case dummy.

Well, thanks for the insult.

Ewh, a built-in PSU for business users. Yikes.

carl67lp · Jul 14, 2005

forumposter32 said:
Well, thanks for the insult.

Ewh, a built-in PSU for business users. Yikes.

Eh, if you get a good Antec case, for example, it'll come with a good PSU. CompUSA recently had deals on their Sonata cases with 380W PSUs. Not bad at all.

Killer69 · Jul 14, 2005

For a "budget" machine, consider a Sempron or Celeron CPU and then cheap mobo's. MSI is a quality mobo manufacturer. Look at Chaintech or Biostar for a cheaper solution.

Remember budget systems are supposed to be cheap. To keep them cheap you have to use cheaper components.

marley1 · Jul 14, 2005

wat about the gaming guestion.

will a sempron with a Radeon 9800 play FIFA and Tiger Woods?

forumposter32 · Jul 15, 2005

I just looked at http://www23.tomshardware.com
and I saw a Doom3 benchmark with the Sempron 2800+ and it's at 57 fps.
The thing I find irritating is I don't know which GPU they used.
Assuming they used a 6800 Ultra, I looked benchmarks on xbitlabs and saw the 6800 Ultra at 93 fps and the 9800 Pro at 43 fps. So, figure maybe half that? I think you're looking at maybe around 30 fps for Doom3. And that game is more demanding than most.

I know that's an extremely weird guestimate but it's the only thing I could thing of off-hand. I googled "fifa tiger woods benchmarks" and wasn't finding anything.

I heard an interview with Tim Sweeney saying the 9800 and 6200 would be able to play UT2007. So, I'd say since the Sapphire 9800 Pro is about $124 US, it's one of the better deals out there. (The 6200 kind of lags in frame rate.) (Anyone reading this thinking of performance, the 6600 GT is very intesting at $144 with rebate.)

Go lower than that and you have the 9600 Pro and 9550. The 9550 would give you Directx 9 compatibility but less frame rates than the 9600 Pro. If you're thinking of business users who aren't picky about their graphics cards, I doubt they'll see a difference if you include a 9550. But, that's just me. I think the 9600 Pro is safer if you're scared they'll be dissapointed. They won't have anything to complain about for now (for several months anyway).

Russ · Jul 15, 2005

marley1 said:
wat about the gaming guestion.

will a sempron with a Radeon 9800 play FIFA and Tiger Woods?

Yea, I'd think so.

forumposter32 · Jul 15, 2005

I just had some fun looking at benchmarks on tomshardware. The 9600 Pro is about the same level as the Ti4200 on many games. On other games, it beats the Ti4200.
Well, that's kind of reassuring I suppose. Also, some people like the video (movies) on Radeon cards.

If anyone is interested in knowing this, I found the Athlon XP 3000+ at Compuvest.com for $110 US and the Ti4200 for $80 US. For Nvidia fans, that's still an interesting card even today.

Wow, that 3000+ almost makes me horny. They ship to Canada. This is good news.

carl67lp · Jul 15, 2005

marley1 said:
wat about the gaming guestion.

will a sempron with a Radeon 9800 play FIFA and Tiger Woods?

I had an Athlon XP 1700+ and a 9600XT. Played Tiger Woods beautifully. (One of my favorite games, as a matter of fact.)

forumposter32 · Jul 15, 2005

tsn | spazz · Jul 15, 2005

And for just for a realllllly nice selling point, throw in a 120-200 gig Hard drive. That is HUGE. When someone sees that, at such a low price, they will be blown away.

my $.02.

Advice for a budget computer build.

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