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Add dishwashing detergent?

S

sonnybobiche

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
155
Dishwashing detergent effectively reduces the surface tension of water. I figure adding a few drops to my current loop would improve flow rates dramatically. Anyone have a contrary opinion?
 
i'm guessing if there are any air bubbles in your system at all, you will wind up with a hell of a mess to clean up :)

Otherwise I don't know...lol cool idea though! I think water wetter does the same thing though.
 
Zerex / Water Wetter / Purple Ice / other car "super coolants" do the same thing, without the possibility of a foam explosion ;)
 
Flow rates are determined by density and viscosity, not surface tension.
 
masher said:
Flow rates are determined by density and viscosity, not surface tension.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, that too :p
Antifreeze actually hinders the cooling abilities of water, as it makes it thicker.
 
use like 10 CCs of antifreeze [ETHELYNE glycol] it kills algae and lubricates the pump
 
malicious said:

do NOT use propolyne glycol

DO use Ethylene Glycol ...
10-15% Ethylene Glycol and Distilled (not de-ionized) water will do
Click to expand...
Eh? Either works fine...ethylene glycol cools a fractional percentage better...but its highly toxic.

And the concentration you should put in your loop isn't fixed, it depends on the galvanic potential of your system. If you have dissimilar metals, then a 15% solution would be about a minimum I'd recommend. If you have an all-copper system, you can get by with a 5-10% solution.
 
What about copper and brass, with aluminum fillport that is not in direct contact with water? What abotu the chrome barbs that stick out of everything? Do I need to account for those too?
 
Justintoxicated said:
What about copper and brass, with aluminum fillport that is not in direct contact with water? What abotu the chrome barbs that stick out of everything? Do I need to account for those too?
Click to expand...
You need to account for anything that the water touches. Copper and Brass have a pretty low galvanic delta (since brass is mostly copper), but chrome, aluminum, and steel are all very high against copper.
 
masher said:
Eh? Either works fine...ethylene glycol cools a fractional percentage better...but its highly toxic.

And the concentration you should put in your loop isn't fixed, it depends on the galvanic potential of your system. If you have dissimilar metals, then a 15% solution would be about a minimum I'd recommend. If you have an all-copper system, you can get by with a 5-10% solution.
Click to expand...


hit the link
 
With all the air that tends to be in the system when you first start it up, I'm guessing that any solution with dish soap in it would more or less explode out of any available hole (like a fillport or T line) when it expands madly with foam. Would be fun to see though, like the model volcano in 1st grade science class :p
 
malicious said:
hit the link
Click to expand...
I did. I think you missed this part.

An uninhibited 30% reagent grade propylene glycol solution [caused] unacceptably high pitting corrosion of aluminum...The inhibitors in the inhibited propylene glycol antifreeze-coolant were as effective as those in the inhibited ethylene glycol in preventing pitting of aluminum
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Pure propylene glycol isn't used for any antifreeze mixes, there are always additional additives, inhibitors, and stabilizers. Not even ethylene glycol gives good performance for all metals.
 
Another note on propylene glycol based antifreezes- due to their lower toxicity they do not effectively control various forms of growth. If you use it instead of ethylene I would suggest looking into adding some form of antigrowth from iodine to waterbed/aquarium additives to other commonly used anti-growth additives.

I learned about not putting in an anti-growth when using Prop. Gly. based antifreeze the hard way ;)
 
Yes, you definitely need a biocide of some sort for a propylene-based admixture.
 
malicious said:


I don't use Hydrx for Water Wetter either.
Click to expand...

So I shouldnt just be using Swiftech Hydrex? That Green stuff in those little bottles? I used to use Water Wetter for my old watercooling. But my new rig I just use distilled water and Swiftech HydrX

swiftechhydrx6xg.jpg
 
sonnybobiche said:
Dishwashing detergent effectively reduces the surface tension of water. I figure adding a few drops to my current loop would improve flow rates dramatically. Anyone have a contrary opinion?
Click to expand...

Yes, but my opinion isnt contrary.
I used a few drops of washing up liquid for a year in my cooler, got very good performance and zero algae.
Its also a great surfactant/water wetter.
I recommend it.

Bubbles arent an issue as they have no more pressure than their surroundings so do not increase internal pressure
Any bubbles in the system would have been present anyway just not as little :)
I too wonder if washing up liquid does improve waterflow. The system I built was so minimal yet performed so well, this was one idea of why it was so good.
The cooler has only ever been run with washing up liquid present so I have no comparison data for you.
 
I dunno but there is a little bit in my loop since I used some to slip the 7/16th inch tubing over 1/2 inch barbs, LOL I noticed cause the first tiem I put the Pentosin in it was a bit more foamy than the second time, although witht he tiny but that made it into the loop I't did not foam all that much, it was pretty much gone by the next day.
 
Old schoolers have been using dish soap for years. It presents no problems as long as too much is not used. As mentioned it does help with the wetting ability of water, adds nil to viscosity, and does quite well at preventing growths.

When corrosion is not an issue, a little dish soap is the ideal additive...
 
thanks for your reply!
This is the first confirmation I have received that dish soap is of benefit other than my own findings.

Regarding corrosion, my system consists of an aluminium radiator and a copper water block.
I used this water cooler for a year on my old Athlon XP mobile system where it performed fantastically..
I checked the block for galvanic erosion and any defects before plugging the water cooler on my Athlon 64 system a few days ago. The water cooler was left for 6 months as a sealed unit with the same water which I am now also using. The block looks as shiny as it did when new and there is no evidence of corrosion and no evidence of solids build up I am happy to say.
For the record I used Fairy Liquid (this may be a UK only brand)

Do you know of the conditions which could cause dish soap to corrode and which metals are likely to be affected please?
 
Chernobyl1 said:
my system consists of an aluminium radiator and a copper water block...I checked the block for galvanic erosion...The block looks as shiny as it did when new and there is no evidence of corrosion
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Um, that's not how galvanic corrosion works-- the anodic metal experiences accelerated corrosion, while the cathodic metal experiences less than normal.

In your loop, the aluminum radiator was acting as the anode, and protecting your copper block...as it itself slowly gets eaten away.
 
Chernobyl1 said:
my system consists of an aluminium radiator and a copper water block.
Click to expand...

Would highly reccommend a corrosion inhibitor. As others have mentioned aluminum and copper simply do not play nice with each other.
 
I have to jump in and ask... Why not use a 'sacrificial anode' to protect the whole system? Would not a replaceable piece of bronze somewhere in the loop due the trick?
 
it might work, as most if not all hot water heaters have a similar "sacrafical anode rod" in them to protect the tank.(yes i can wire and plumb houses, as well as build computers at the age of...........15. dont believe me, i wired our basement and it hasnt gone up in smoke yet)
 
JustKidding said:
I have to jump in and ask... Why not use a 'sacrificial anode' to protect the whole system? Would not a replaceable piece of bronze somewhere in the loop due the trick?
Click to expand...
Not with aluminum in the loop, no. You'd need to use zinc or something with a higher anodic index.
 
Dark_fire said:
it might work, as most if not all hot water heaters have a similar "sacrafical anode rod" in them to protect the tank.(yes i can wire and plumb houses, as well as build computers at the age of...........15. dont believe me, i wired our basement and it hasnt gone up in smoke yet)
Click to expand...


You sound hungry for an e-cookie...

Guys, think about what happens to sacrificial anodes as they perform their function. Do you want remnants of that floating around in your loop?
 
okay, bottom line this for me please -

WHAT do I want to put in my water when I water cool under the following circumstances?

1: copper block, aluminum rad?
2: all copper?
3: all aluminum?

thanks!
:)
 
Actually, if your water is non-conductive then no worries (water is only conductive when mineral elements are introduced). so if you use de-mineralized water then galvanic activity really should not be a problem for many-many years (if at all).
I should have asked my question in a separete thread. Sorry for the hijack!
 
zer0signal667 said:
Guys, think about what happens to sacrificial anodes as they perform their function. Do you want remnants of that floating around in your loop?
Click to expand...
Well, you have to remember the electrochemistry of corrosion inhibitors functions very similar to what a sacrificial anode does, and so in either case you're going to want to regularly flush to remove scale and sludge. Its not going to be a huge difference either way.

Actually, if your water is non-conductive then no worries (water is only conductive when mineral elements are introduced).
Click to expand...
But pure water doesn't stay pure and non-conductive for very long. Water in a loop is going to become mildly conductive, just from a few free ions it picks up from the materials its in contact with. If you have dissimilar metals, then you need to worry about galvanic corrosion.

WHAT do I want to put in my water when I water cool under the following circumstances?

1: copper block, aluminum rad?
2: all copper?
3: all aluminum?
Click to expand...
In all three cases, you ideally want corrosion inhibitors. In the second case, you can skip them for brief periods, and in the third, for lengthy periods...but there's really no reason not to use them.

In all three cases, you want an anti-biological agent of some sort as well.
 
Thank you for your informative post, Masher. Any brand reccomendations? I am about to rebuild my system anyway. :)
 
for the love of god

10-15% antifreeze + distilled water

ethylene is better than propylene (sp?)

just get some freakin Pentosin Blue and mix it as stated above ...

Last time i check antifreeze is suffcient at killing most anything living in solution + anitcorrosive of coarse.



mal
 
jmahler said:
Thank you for your informative post, Masher. Any brand reccomendations? I am about to rebuild my system anyway. :)
Click to expand...
Not really, I just use auto antifreeze myself, nothing fancy. I don't have any experience with the PC-specific inhibitors.


Last time i check antifreeze is suffcient at killing most anything living in solution
Click to expand...
Not a propylene-based antifreeze, no. For those, you want an abiotic agent.
 
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