Active Monitors VS. Bookshelf + Receiver Combo

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hi_fi82

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Hi,

I am selling my Logitech 2300 set and looking to upgrade to something a bit nicer. So far, I have my mind set on the Swan D-1080MKII or M-Audio AV40. Which one is superior?

Moreover, I have been looking into the alternative of buying a receiver and passive speakers as the monitors are not really upgradeable.

Which route do you all think is better to take? I will be using the speakers mainly for music and movies, for mid-field listening...therefore the sound needs to fill a smallish sized room (around 12X12).

Looking at these for Receiver + Passive:
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/TSB-525-2-Way-Bookshelf-Speaker-Pair-P45C6.aspx
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/LCR3-P-Series-Home-Theater-Front-Speakers-P41C6.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8255B-TX-8255-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B001AMSPQI/
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STR-DH100-2-Channel-Audio-Receiver/dp/B001TP3CH8/
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V363BL-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0013ZGOYM
I will eventually pair a subwoofer with either combination. My pricerange is around $300.
 
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any of the above would be suitable, receiver wise, my preference is towards Yamaha

none will be "better" in context of "this gets 5000 3dmarks, this gets 6000"
 
Passive + reciever will just about always give you the better sound. I upgraded from logitechs myself recently to active speakers out of convenience and I didn't really want an amp or receiver on my desk.
 
A little over your $300 budget but this Denon with the LCR3 from tSc would be a nice combo.


I have this receiver and I may end up getting those speakers from tSc for my bedroom tv and move my current speakers to Zone 2 for my pc.

Add a nice sub somewhere down the line and you're good to go. :)
 
Thanks! How large a difference would the passive speakers I have chosen fare against the monitors? These passives aren't exactly the greatest, but neither are the monitors. Will the soundstages be vastly different?
 
I don't know if in general passives would be better than the actives. There are many who like the sound of active monitors. After all, an active monitor is just a passive monitor with an built in amp. So much will depend on the quality of each component.

There are many really nice active monitors such as the KRKs, Dynaudios, Mackies, Adams and such. If I could afford a set of Adam A5s, I would seriously consider them. Unfortunately I can't. :(

It is true that active monitors are focused towards studio use rather than home. Thus true sound at near field listening may be more the focus than home audio speakers that may focus on colorful sound. And passive gives the ability to expand to 5.1 easier.

However, actives are nice self contained systems and I think instead of generalizing, you might want to consider both options. Hey why limit yourself?

Edit: My last comment was stupid. You are considering both options...Thats why this thread is here. Sorry.

Maybe listen to a few speakers and limit yourself to the ones you listen to if you are worried? Check out some stores nearby that sell passives and actives and see what you like.
 
Thank You! My main concern with the actives over the passives were the range they could deliver. From all i've read, the actives wont fare well out of a 'near-field' listening area. Would the actives be somewhat immersive for movies when paired with a sub?
 
it depends how far away you want to get, but honestly I've never had issues with active monitors at ~5-8' away, is it a movie theatre, no, does it still sound good, yes, if they're good speakers

and I agree with zenshi, lets not turn this into a generalization mongering thread
 
Again, I think it depends on the components and the setup. For example I think a setup such as the one below by Magnetik (see the post your speaker setup thread for the whole post) would be much more immersive than many passive sets.

P1010020.jpg
Click to expand...

On the other hand, a passive set like Frraksurred's rig (again in the post your speaker setup thread) would blow away many active setups.

rigweb.jpg
Click to expand...

A lot of the active monitors are no more directional than many quality passives. If you want to go for a whole HT setup for a gigantic room then you probably want passives to go to floorstanding sets anyway, which means neither active nor passive bookshelves would be adequate. But if you want to go get good quality audio from a PC setup, I think either could be arranged. The passive is easier due to the receiver but I think you can do this with a set of actives as well (use a receiver's low output or a soundcard and hook the sub to a sub out in the front speaker or do the cable magic thingy that lets you hook both sub and fronts from the same front port of a soundcard).

Edit: Oh and to Magnetik and Frraksurred, my apologies for the hijack of your beautiful setups.

Edit2: Oh also, I hear that the T series speakers from TSC are nice budget speakers. People in the AVS forum seem to like them.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808444
 
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Thank You. I am leaning towards a passive setup in the long-term for the ability to easily swap out or upgrade the set. But, to even start with a decent rig without a subwoofer I am going to need to spend upwards of $300. On the other hand, a decent set of monitors ($100 - $200) will tide me over til I have the space and $$ to move towards a real home theater setup.

Therefore, you've addressed my main concern about actives, that they can be suitable for mid-distance listening. With that in mind, I am leaning towards the Swan M200MkII or Swan D1080MkII. Is their any other comparable monitors in this price-range or a little higher (~250) that would be suitable as a pseudo home theater set-up?

Someone had mentioned these, but they are well over my price-range. Anything comparable around $300? http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-cinema-series-1-2-2.paradigm

All The Speaker Company equipment look like a true bargain for the price. I would definitely jump for the LCR 1 or LCR 3 P-Series if I could pair them with a cheap 5.1 receiver.
 
I think the M200KIIs if you can afford them would be a wonderful monitor set to get. Again, that is me but I have yet to read someone who doesn't like their Swan M200s either in MKI or II (supposedly better amplification in the IIs). For the price I think it would be hard to beat.

Edit: Oh and I drool at that Paradigm link. :)
 
Just this week made the upgrade from the Z-2300's myself:

Polk Monitor 30's New - $99 FS at Newegg. (On sale for $89 now, of course... :) )

Polk PSW10 Refurb - $88 shipped from PolkDirect on ebay.

Harmon Kardon AVR 154 Refurb - $143 shipped from HarmonAudio on ebay.

Now yes, some refurbs there, but the sub carries a 2 year manufacturer warranty, and the AVR gets the full, as new, manufacturer warranty, so I'm not too worried. Both arrived in spotless condition, and in excellent packaging, with the manuals and all accessories included.

I obviously don't know what your plans are long term, but, IMHO, even the modest system I put together is crazy overkill for pc use, and for $330 all in, I couldn't resist.

Another option at the very least.

Edit: links
 
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Yeah those AVR 154s are nice and you can often win the bid at prices well below the $200 range. Either that or the Marantz 3001 system is what I am eyeing for a receiver. For just powering speakers, I think they would be more than enough for me. :D

By the way, PolkDirect only takes Paypal correct? That is the only thing that holds me back from buying from them. Harmonaudio takes credit cards and Paypal if I recall.
 
Not sure about the paypal only thing. I did go through paypal, but was using the Visa anyway so didn't really pay attention.

The AVR 154 is nice, other than trying to find room for it. :)
 
Thanks for all the input! I think I may be moving towards getting a 2.0 setup with a receiver as active monitors 'flat' sound may not be ideal for movies. Right?
 
hi_fi82 said:
Thanks for all the input! I think I may be moving towards getting a 2.0 setup with a receiver as active monitors 'flat' sound may not be ideal for movies. Right?
Click to expand...

you're making gross generalizations about the qualities of active and passive sets, relegating all actives to being "the same" and all passives to being "the same"

this is not true.

I suggest, as has been suggested before, that you go and audition some of this equipment before just buying (especially since you seem to love generalizations rooted in fantasy, see if you can't dispell some of those notions)
 
Agreed
Hifi can be a very personal thing so if you want to do it right, YOU need to know what the differences mean to you.
How the speakers are set up (other equipment quality, mounting/securing and positioning in the room) can hugely affect the sound from them.
So you should audition in showrooms that take care of these important basics and that know what they are doing.
 
Thank You! I realized that I am generalizing both home theater and monitor set-ups, so I did further research and this discussion on AVS Forum really cleared up alot of notions I had about monitor speakers. Very interesting.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157531

I will test out a few monitors next week and let you all know what I think. Thanks for all the input!
 
Another inquiry, I was looking at Paradigm's line of speakers and was wondering which ones are self-powered? Both the Titan Monitor and Monitor v7 look outstanding.
 
Quite an interesting discussion but is of no issue as long as you can audition the speakers.
After auditioning many you will get an idea of what you like and will be able to choose a set that suits you and your music best.
Whether they be Pro Audio, Consumer Audio or Studio kit, its whether you like them that matters, not how well specced they are.


Positioning is key, I've heard expensive speakers that sound like crap when set up wrong, but when done right they sound truly amazing.
Take for example Acoustic Energy's AE1 speaker, its a tiny tiny bookshelf speaker costing £700 (about 18 years ago), but when mounted on their special stands @ £300 and positioned right, the bass quality and depth plus clarity was something to behold.
I has looking around for the subwoofer when they were being demo'd and they are soooo small!

My friend bought a pair with stands and coupled them to an Audiolab 8000a amp (now Tag McLaren Audio) and it sounded crap when he set it up at home.
He never did put the effort into positioning them well and didnt get the reward they promised so sold them.
Damn waste.

Whatever you do, make sure the speaker is mounted solidly so it cannot move.
Some people use spikes or make their own isolating platforms that hold them rigid.
I'm quite partial to using Blu-tak, not a bad, quick and easy solution for bookshelf speakers.
My preference by far is spiked floor standing speakers as I like an even deep bass response throughout the listening area.
As I cant fit floorstanders at the rear, I have 2 subwoofers, one at the front, one at the rear for a more uniform bass response throughout the room and to get the deepest bass with ease.
Works wonderfully.

Another thing that can make a difference is how you hook the subwoofer up.
Many come with the ability to take speaker level inputs as well as line level.
Speaker level is a fantastic way to set them up but you need to have suitable speakers that wont smoke if you feed them with LFE.

ie feed LFE bass to the front speakers, dont use a separate LFE channel.
Connect the sub up to the amplified output for the front speakers and tune it to bolster the low bass of the main speakers if required and to come in where the speakers cant go any lower with the LFE.
(note, the subs amp is still used, it will not load the main amplifier)
This passes the tone and timing of the main amplifier to the sub so the front speakers and sub are in harmony.
I simply cannot get anywhere near as good a sound match by just using the LFE channel on the sub.

Of course you may think differently and find you prefer LFE fed only to the sub.
Once you have bought your kit, the experimenting will start :p
Choices choices.
 
hi_fi82 said:
Another inquiry, I was looking at Paradigm's line of speakers and was wondering which ones are self-powered? Both the Titan Monitor and Monitor v7 look outstanding.
Click to expand...

I don't think Paradigm sells active speakers. I have the Titan Monitor v6 and love them. However, I bought them because of the size of my room - 450sq ft. I've had the chance to audition The Monitor 7 and they sound really good. I wish I had the money for them. I've also had a chance to audition the Cinema 330 and wasn't particularly impressed compared with the Titan's.

Regurgitating what Nenu pointed out above, you need to audition the speakers. Some people told me they love the sound from the Anthony Gallo Speakers. When I auditioned them, I thought they sounded like crap. Also you have to consider the size of your space and whether or not you have enough room between your speaker and the wall. There's a lot of variables to consider.

If you're looking for active monitors, I recommend the Dynaudio BM 5As. I've had a chance to audition those and they sounded great to me.
 
Paradigm doesn't do active speakers other than subs to the best of my knowledge. In general, I'd say look elsewhere as I feel Paradigm is a bit expensive for what they give you. Don't get me wrong, they are good quality, I just think you can do better for the money. I'd recommend SVS first and foremost, no surprise since that's what I own. However if you do decide to get them, don't feel like you aren't going to get excellent sound.


As for your overall question of active vs passive, it really depends on what you want. One of the biggest advantages with active monitors when used with a computer setup is that you save on space and cabling. Your soundcard hooks right to your speakers. Also, active monitors tend to be designed and equalized for near field monitoring, meaning right next to you. If that is what you are after, speakers sitting on your desk a foot or so away, they are well designed for that.

Now passive speakers offer the option of going higher quality over all. Though active monitors go quite far up the performance scale, they stop well before passive speakers do. So if you have a hefty budget, you will probably find passive speakers are the way to go.

Also, if you want tower speakers, well then you are going for passive speakers. Nobody seems to make active monitors is a larger form factor. There are actually tower speakers with active crossovers, but they still use separate amps and cost a fortune.

If you are looking at doing 5.1, you will want to be careful when purchasing active monitors as many aren't designed for it. They are sold only in pairs, and don't have a design that works for a centre channel. So supposing 5.1 is in the cards, make sure if you go the active route you get some that are good for it. For passive setups, this is not such a big deal. Most speakers these days are made for home theatre and thus there'll be a centre channel to go with any fronts/rears.

Another thing to look at in the passive/receiver realm is that you might want features the receiver offers. Active monitors usually have little in the way of features, just some EQ/crossover tweaking for room size compensation and the like. Receivers do all kinds of things, depending on the model. For example they'll handle bass management, if your computer doesn't (some soundcards don't, most do), they give you an external volume dial, they can switch inputs for other devices and so on. Also mroe advanced ones can do things like room equalization (Audyssey MultEQ (found on Onkyo, Denon, and NAD), Yamaha YPAO, and Pioneer MCACC are some of the common ones) speaker setup, and so on.

If you want those features, then passive speakers are the way to go. I mean technically, you can use the preamp outputs on a receiver to powered monitors, but that is kinda a waste of money. Better to just get speakers that hook to the amp.

So kinda depends on what you are after.
 
Sycraft said:
Paradigm doesn't do active speakers other than subs to the best of my knowledge.
Click to expand...

Actually, Paradigm used to make active speakers. Two of the more recent ones would be the Reference Active/20 and Reference Active/40. I don't believe their current lineup of speakers has any active speakers, but if you were set on active Paradigm speakers you do have some options in the used market.
 
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