ACLU: Cops Stealing Drivers' Phone Data

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Can someone explain to me how this is even close to being legal. Should we all expect "drivers license, registration, proof of insurance...and your phone" now when we get pulled over?

The Michigan State Police have started using handheld machines called "extraction devices" to download personal information from motorists they pull over, even if they're not suspected of any crime. Naturally, the ACLU has a problem with this.
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Around here the most they do is ask you to show them your recent call log. Not too bad.
 
wasn't there an app announced not to long ago that would wipe your phone data? That would be perfect for this. If not someone smarter than me needs to make one STAT :D
 
I would refuse, get arrested, then sue for the violation of my constitutional rights.
 
Ummm, what? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's legal in all but a few states to just say "No. Warrant plz kthnx."
 
Json23 said:
I would refuse, get arrested, then sue for the violation of my constitutional rights.
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This.

Sorry if I get pulled over for speeding then fine me, you don't need anything relating to do with my phone.
 
Welcome to Michigan, where the new "no texting" law has all sorts of interesting side effects that all of us with brains foresaw.

Oh, and by the way, if the governor wants, he can take over your town, fire all of it's elected officials, and replace them with an "emergency government" appointed by him. And this person is NEVER a crony, no siree Bob. (Already happened to one city, I shit you not)
 
Also, curious to know if this device works with encrypted devices? My phone's email provider is an Exchange server that mandates encryption and a password.
 
id hope the password on the phone blocks such data downloads just like it does when you hook it up to the pc

but yeah i see someone getting sued over this and then it will go away
 
People are under the assumption that saying no, getting arrested, dealing with ALL the bullshit you'll have to deal with from that instant of saying "no" onward, for days, weeks, months, however long, potential legal issues, potential loss of income from missing work, potential loss of finances due to potentially losing a job (even if you've done absolutely nothing wrong - some folks have jobs that simply do not allow them to be arrested as a condition of that employment), oh lord I could go on all day.

Or you can say "Whatever" and give up the phone and then sue the fuck out of them after the fact without you actually being arrested. One would think that's a far more efficient solution.

Right? :p
 
Putz said:
id hope the password on the phone blocks such data downloads just like it does when you hook it up to the pc
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The article I read yesterday said the device, a CelleBrite UFED, works with 3000 models of phones and can defeat passwords.

But seriosly lol did you think mobile phones were secure? Remote wipe is about the only real protection consumer phones have, and even that may leave recoverable data depending how it was implemented.
 
This is why we need the ACLU, there is never any gray area when it comes to privacy, no matter how extreme or unpopular the cases they take on.
 
I guess I will have to keep a full cup of liquid in the car at all times when driving through Michigan. Cop asks for my phone my phone gets accidentally dropped into the cup.
 
The hell if im handing over my phone just because they want it. They cant take my laptop out of my car and download it why the fuck am I going to give up my smart phone.
 
I was watching a show about crossing the boarder and the coyotes take the battery out the phone and put it in another pocket, sometimes take out the SIM, they said this prevented legal searches. Would that also be the case in this matter?

Not like I'm planning to get pulled over there anytime soon or anywhere or that I have anything to hide
 
If they pull you over in your car for a violation like 'speeding', 'drunk driving', etc aren't they able to within reason search your car? I often find shows like Cops, they pull someone over, you can clearly see they are under the influence of something, search the car and ohh look 'cocaine in the glove compartment'.

Isn't searching areas/things like bags inside your car not that different from searching your phone in a manner of speaking? If you think of a bag/glove compartment as a storage-medium similar to a phone/usb thumb drive/etc? One's virtual storage and the other actual storage. If someone had a list of all the numbers they'd recently called written down on a peice of paper in the glove compartment, would you consider it wrong for them to read it while searching a car?

This one seems a bit ....odd. If they had cause for pulling you over and deem something arrest worthy, they have cause to search your vehicle and what's inside it including your phone. The people saying they'll sue for consitutional right violations blah blah blah.... good luck!

To an extent, this seems slightly useful data though. If an officer sees a teenager texting and pulls the teenager over for texting, it seems easily contestable in court. Teenager deleted the texts/phone call records during the time she was driving and says 'you can look at my phone' in court and subsequently the 'modified' phone shows no texts/phone calls. Granted, phone records could be subponea'd but that would take a lot of police resources/time/effort and possibly a 2nd court hearing.

Would it be preferable just to have this situation, teenager pulled over for texting...
Teenager: "no, i wasn't texting officer!!!"
Office: "Can I see your phone? Gee, a text from 1 minute ago, 2 minutes ago, 4 minutes ago, 6 minutes ago. Oh and 12 minutes ago you started a 5 minute long phone call and have no hands-free device in your car."
Officer downloads copy of phone log/texts for use in court.
 
What the hell is up with state GOP governors making sensationalist changes to laws? Wisconsin for the union thing, Maine for wanting to amend the child labor law, and now Michigan for 4th amendment violation. Are they that desperate for attention?
 
InorganicMatter said:
Also, curious to know if this device works with encrypted devices? My phone's email provider is an Exchange server that mandates encryption and a password.
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It does a complete memory dump of the phone bypassing any encryption since the encryption key has to be in memory anyway or it wouldn't be able to access your email account.

If you click through to Cellebrite's website it even shows off everything it can do. Including retrieving all deleted texts/emails/photos because phones just mark things deleted without overwriting them the same as a computer does.

It also brags that it has 'EXCLUSIVE additional access' to Samsung and LG phones already, with Windows Phone 7 and comprehensive Android additional access 'COMING SOON'.
 
WBurchnall said:
If they pull you over in your car for a violation like 'speeding', 'drunk driving', etc aren't they able to within reason search your car? I often find shows like Cops, they pull someone over, you can clearly see they are under the influence of something, search the car and ohh look 'cocaine in the glove compartment'.
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i'm not a lawyer so I can't give you an exact answer, but watching COPS as a source of information is a bad, bad idea. Laws vary from county to county, and COPS makes no attempt at making the show educational, just sensational.

However I don't think cops can just search your car for no reason. They might be able to peek inside but they have no right to any of your other belongings like bags or glove box without a warrant supported by probable cause, or if you waive your rights.

My personal thoughts on the matter are, the cops are looking for any small thing that they can to get you in trouble. If you give them an inch, they will want a mile. If you are truly not doing anything wrong, stand your ground and don't be afraid of them. Tell them you have done nothing wrong and/or you don't like them getting their noses in your business. If you do have an important job, and it's not worth the bullshit to put up with the process, give them your stuff but express your disapproval and discontent for their actions.
 
This is one of the main reasons I have the pattern lock (9 dots on the touchscreen and you make your own custom pattern with 4 dots as the unlock key)

Cops can't snoop my shit if I get roped off....

And also keeps snoopy ass people out of my damn phone when its on the charger and I am away.

There are supposedly ways to get in, and perhaps into your data.... but there are ways to protect and limit what people can find when they try to hack into your phone.
 
I'm all for this shit. People need to stop texting and talking while driving.
 
The Michigan State Police are never, ever going to touch my phone with any "extractor" device... instant lawsuit, hands down, no questions asked, that IS WITHOUT ANY QUESTION, invasion of privacy and more importantly DATA THEFT. What if they took business data with their "extractor tool" that had 100% NO RELATION to their case?

The cops could potentially find data that is profitable (especially in Detroit where secret new car makers are located, and surely have some type of company secrets in their phones or email) and then surely want to sell the secrets they find, as its worth tons to the other car maker competition...
 
WBurchnall said:
If they pull you over in your car for a violation like 'speeding', 'drunk driving', etc aren't they able to within reason search your car? I often find shows like Cops, they pull someone over, you can clearly see they are under the influence of something, search the car and ohh look 'cocaine in the glove compartment'.

Isn't searching areas/things like bags inside your car not that different from searching your phone in a manner of speaking? If you think of a bag/glove compartment as a storage-medium similar to a phone/usb thumb drive/etc? One's virtual storage and the other actual storage. If someone had a list of all the numbers they'd recently called written down on a peice of paper in the glove compartment, would you consider it wrong for them to read it while searching a car?

This one seems a bit ....odd. If they had cause for pulling you over and deem something arrest worthy, they have cause to search your vehicle and what's inside it including your phone. The people saying they'll sue for consitutional right violations blah blah blah.... good luck!
Click to expand...

That'd fall under "probable cause". That person is noticed to be under the influence of something, which allows police/state troopers to ask to search your vehicle. You can either voluntarily allow the search, or tell the officer to obtain a warrant first. Too many people are afraid to ask for the latter. This video explains it better.
 
Dylan80 said:
This is one of the main reasons I have the pattern lock (9 dots on the touchscreen and you make your own custom pattern with 4 dots as the unlock key)

Cops can't snoop my shit if I get roped off....

And also keeps snoopy ass people out of my damn phone when its on the charger and I am away.

There are supposedly ways to get in, and perhaps into your data.... but there are ways to protect and limit what people can find when they try to hack into your phone.
Click to expand...
You must not have looked at the Cellebrite website. Your pattern lock means nothing to their machine. Here is a cut and paste from the site:

Physical Pro provides access to data inaccessible by logical methods:
Phone user lock code
Deleted data including: deleted call history, text messages, images, phonebook entries and videos
Access to internal application data
Phone internal data including: IMSI history, past SIM cards used, past user lock code history
 
EvilWays said:
That'd fall under "probable cause". That person is noticed to be under the influence of something, which allows police/state troopers to ask to search your vehicle. You can either voluntarily allow the search, or tell the officer to obtain a warrant first. Too many people are afraid to ask for the latter. This video explains it better.
Click to expand...

+1 This is exactly right. If you say no they have to contact their sergeant/boss and get a warrant to search your vehicle. I have a suspicion that this whole phone ordeal will fall into the same space.
 
pgaster said:
You must not have looked at the Cellebrite website. Your pattern lock means nothing to their machine. Here is a cut and paste from the site:

Physical Pro provides access to data inaccessible by logical methods:
Phone user lock code
Deleted data including: deleted call history, text messages, images, phonebook entries and videos
Access to internal application data
Phone internal data including: IMSI history, past SIM cards used, past user lock code history
Click to expand...

That is so depressing. We already know how well the government/law enforcement deals with sensitive data. There is zero reason they need a device that can capture my phonebook entries and images.
 
Joe Average said:
People are under the assumption that saying no, getting arrested, dealing with ALL the bullshit you'll have to deal with from that instant of saying "no" onward, for days, weeks, months, however long, potential legal issues, potential loss of income from missing work, potential loss of finances due to potentially losing a job (even if you've done absolutely nothing wrong - some folks have jobs that simply do not allow them to be arrested as a condition of that employment), oh lord I could go on all day.

Or you can say "Whatever" and give up the phone and then sue the fuck out of them after the fact without you actually being arrested. One would think that's a far more efficient solution.

Right? :p
Click to expand...

by giving up the phone you agree to their terms, thus how can you sue them, it is like letting police into your home, you gave them permission, then trying to charge them with trespassing.
 
Makes me glad I lost the cover off my Droid. I could pop the battery out in my pocket before handing over the phone. Good luck getting data off it then.

The only time there is just cause in searching the contents of a driver's phone is when you are accusing them of using it where it wasn't legal.
 
WBurchnall said:
To an extent, this seems slightly useful data though. If an officer sees a teenager texting and pulls the teenager over for texting, it seems easily contestable in court. Teenager deleted the texts/phone call records during the time she was driving and says 'you can look at my phone' in court and subsequently the 'modified' phone shows no texts/phone calls. Granted, phone records could be subponea'd but that would take a lot of police resources/time/effort and possibly a 2nd court hearing.

Would it be preferable just to have this situation, teenager pulled over for texting...
Teenager: "no, i wasn't texting officer!!!"
Office: "Can I see your phone? Gee, a text from 1 minute ago, 2 minutes ago, 4 minutes ago, 6 minutes ago. Oh and 12 minutes ago you started a 5 minute long phone call and have no hands-free device in your car."
Officer downloads copy of phone log/texts for use in court.
Click to expand...

Two issues, firstly it doesn't sound like this is the situation the device is being used for, although as the article has a bias against the action, so they could have easily left that information out of the story, the other issue is that while you can delete the records in your phone but you can't delete them from your providers records and that is what you would need to use to clear yourself in court.
 
Pogo said:
I'm all for this shit. People need to stop texting and talking while driving.
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I don't text. It takes my eyes off the road and isn't safe.

I talk while I drive all the time. I hold my phone in such a way that it doesn't obstruct my view, I continue to watch my mirrors and check my blind spots just as I would without the phone against my ear (gasp! no hands-free equipment either!), and I pay attention to my gauges and the road ahead of me. In other words, I drive just the same.

Some people can't talk and drive because once the phone hits their ears they act like they're laid out on the couch at home, chatting on the phone. They ruin it for the rest of us.
 
Dylan80 said:
The cops could potentially find data that is profitable (especially in Detroit where secret new car makers are located, and surely have some type of company secrets in their phones or email) and then surely want to sell the secrets they find, as its worth tons to the other car maker competition...
Click to expand...

Cops would be fully aware of how illegal it would be to sell trade secrets. Your scenario just isn't realistic.

However, any kind of confidential information they extract then becomes at risk of being compromised if they do not handle it properly. Doctors with patient data, businessmen with trade secrets, et cetera all have a lot on the line if the police don't properly secure the data they take off those phones.
 
Perfect complementary story on Engadget today:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/20/researchers-find-ios-4-records-your-location-in-system-file-syn/

'feature in iOS 4: it asks your iPhone to record your location constantly, then timestamps that data and records it for posterity. The trouble with this unsolicited location tracking is that the hidden file that holds the data -- consolidated.db -- is relatively easy to uncover and read, making any desktops you've backed your phone up to and the phone itself even bigger privacy dangers than they would usually be'
 
PopeKevinI said:
Cops would be fully aware of how illegal it would be to sell trade secrets. Your scenario just isn't realistic.

However, any kind of confidential information they extract then becomes at risk of being compromised if they do not handle it properly. Doctors with patient data, businessmen with trade secrets, et cetera all have a lot on the line if the police don't properly secure the data they take off those phones.
Click to expand...

Because the police have NEVER been corrupt and done illegal things. :D
 
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