According To VALVE's Gary McTaggart...

[The Batman]

I've got $10 here saying the Pro/GT/XT/Ultra/XTPE will all be capable of playing HL2 at 16x12 4xAA 8xAF smoothly.

Grachpically speaking HL2 is more akin to Doom 2.5/Far Cry .5 than any of these next gen games. Battle for Middle-Earth will probabley tax my system more.

 

[Yiffy]

Didn't they say ati would be 30-40% faster a year or so ago? Funny how that number dropped. Whats to say it won't drop again. .

And a year ago the current cream of the crop were the GeforceFX and Radeon 9800s. If you've seen the GeforceFX in forced DX9.0 mode then yes, ATi was some 30% faster.

 

[ratmeleon]

Even if people get insane frame rates on the VST, that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be getting that many frame rates in the game. Since the source engine utilizes a lot of cpu power for the calculations of the physics and the AI, and other stuff like that, it will come down to how good your overall system is.

 

[Warriorprophet]

Didn't they say ati would be 30-40% faster a year or so ago? Funny how that number dropped. Whats to say it won't drop again.

Besides when ati has their d*cks in valves mouths what do you expect them to say?

Canadian, my 6800nu gets 100.33fps on the the video stress test @ 1024x768 4xaa/4xaf....just a little fyi for ya.

You're forgetting that at that time they still thought R400 would be the new core, not a rehash of the r300 all over again, if we had R500 it could easily be 40%+ faster then the 68xx series.

 

[Warriorprophet]

Even if people get insane frame rates on the VST, that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be getting that many frame rates in the game. Since the source engine utilizes a lot of cpu power for the calculations of the physics and the AI, and other stuff like that, it will come down to how good your overall system is.

CS:Source can't even load my 2.4, I have no doubt Hl2 will, but I'm still thoroughly GPU limited in "source" games.

Granted the most dissapointing part of source thus far has been that Doom3 and FarCry don't seem to lag until you get into framerates around the 20s, source seems to still feel jittery at anything below 50. I'd like to know whats going on there.

 

[Moloch]

I've got $10 here saying the Pro/GT/XT/Ultra/XTPE will all be capable of playing HL2 at 16x12 4xAA 8xAF smoothly.

Grachpically speaking HL2 is more akin to Doom 2.5/Far Cry .5 than any of these next gen games. Battle for Middle-Earth will probabley tax my system more.

Only 8AF? , why not 6AA on the ati cards, perhaps because of the nvidia crap SSAA mix moded would be too slow?

 

[Mr Mean]

But what happens if, over the course of the next 36 months, many of the great games end up using the Source engine?

I'm really stoked about Half-Life 2.

I'm also pretty stoked about Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, which of course also uses the Source engine.

What difference does it make if Valve is optimizing ATI cards for its engine - wouldn't we be much happier gamers if every gaming company took the time to optimize their software for specific cards? 20% is 20% in my mind - who cares how they achieved it.

The only people I would foresee objecting to this 20% increase would be... oh, let me go out on a limb here and say... uhm, nVidia owners!

In 36 months there will be NV60 and the R7xx, so by that time the source engine won't be cutting edge technology.

 

[The Batman]

Only 8AF? , why not 6AA on the ati cards, perhaps because of the nvidia crap SSAA mix moded would be too slow?

Because the Pro probabley couldn't handle 6xAA and 16xAF if it goes under the 50s in the VST at 4xAA 8xAF.

I'd ask you to think before you post but then you could ask to have monkeys crawl out my arse.

Must really piss you offf that so many people with Nvidia cards are enjoying their 4xS/8xS modes. It brings a smile to my face to know that imbitters you greatly. . See...smile.

 

[Moloch]

Because the Pro probabley couldn't handle 6xAA and 16xAF if it goes under the 50s in the VST at 4xAA 8xAF.

I'd ask you to think before you post but then you could ask to have monkey's crawl out my arse.

Who care about the pro, XT-PE is where it's at
Atleast I wan't temp banned.. I'd say I'm doing fine..

 

[rayg]

All I know is that I get 115 fps in the video stress test with my 6800 ultra on 1600x1200, all details maxed, 4xaa 8xaf. So if ATI cards get 20% more than me, good for them, but frankly I dont think anyone will notice a difference between 115 and 138 fps. I dont think ATI cards will get 138 fps, truth be told, I think they will be 5-10% better at MOST, if even that. So nvidia owners, do not worry!

no you dont.

 

[The Batman]

Who care about the pro, XT-PE is where it's at
Atleast I wan't temp banned.. I'd say I'm doing fine..

The mutitude of people with Pros you freaking brain trust.

Looks like I won't be worrying about monkeys anytime soon. Well besides dealing with you of course.

 

[Moloch]

The mutitude of people with Pros you freaking brain trust.

Looks like I won't be worrying about monkeys anytime soon. Well besides dealing with you of course.

The people pros shouldn't have expected to be able to play at the highest settings, brain trust, that's what the XT is for.
If the XT and the pro could play at the same settings, there wouldn't be a point in making the XT.

 

[gop]

2GB of RAM? I'm really doubting this game will require more than 512 RAM to run at optimal settings. I don't think any game (even Doom 3), needs more than that to do that.

 

[Moloch]

2GB of RAM? I'm really doubting this game will require more than 512 RAM to run at optimal settings. I don't think any game (even Doom 3), needs more than that to do that.

Doom3 needs 1GB to run smoothly, but go ahead and play with stutters doto paging..

 

[The Batman]

The people pros shouldn't have expected to be able to play at the highest settings, brain trust, that's what the XT is for.
If the XT and the pro could play at the same settings, there wouldn't be a point in making the XT.

Ah yes of course, shaft the people with Pros. They paid $400 for their cards, so did I. I get to play at the highest settings of an "ATI game" and they don't? Ya I can see how that works in your own little devoid of logic world but here in the real world we would call that 'suckage'.

Secondly the XT isn't at the Pro's price point so no fucking shit they don't preform the same. However the Pro is at the GTs price point so you're going to have to deal with it instead of trying to sweep it [and all the people with Pros] under the rug.

Now why don't you go do something productive with your life...like running into the middle of busy intersection.

 

[Mr Mean]

not when the ATI beta 8.07's are used: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/cs-source.html

these are what the 4.11 catalysts will based off of(support for 256mb among other things). other benchmarks from other sites use nvidias latest betas, but only catalyst 4.9.

I've read that review and you see both ATI and NVIDIA winning/losing. The loss of 3-10 FPS in high detail isn't much to warrant much fear in NVIDIA to be honest. I can see them catching up to this in the following driver revisions.

 

[Mr Mean]

pretty much what i was gonna say. i go to movies that run at what, 28fps or so and they are perfectly smooth? the max refresh rate on my lcd panel is 60hz which means each pixel can only be cycled through 60 times per second anyway?

sure i like high framerates, but if my fps never dips below 30 then odds are pretty good that i will never notice.

I can notice the flickering when I watch movies at the theater But I don't notice any flickering on IMAX for the matrix reloaded.

 

[Moloch]

Ah yes of course, shaft the people with Pros. They paid $400 for their cards, so did I. I get to play at the highest settings of an "ATI game" and they don't? Ya I can see how that works in your own little devoid of logic world but here in the real world we would call that 'suckage'.

Secondly the XT isn't at the Pro's price point so no fucking shit they don't preform the same. However the Pro is at the GTs price point so you're going to have to deal with it instead of trying to sweep it [and all the people with Pros] under the rug.

Now why don't you go do something productive with your life...like running into the middle of busy intersection.

Erm what?
Who's shafting them?
When people buy anything but the ultra highend, they shouldn't expect to be able to play at the highest settings, I mean they didn't dish out a wopping 100 more for the ultra highend.
Secondly, you said your self the pro is playing at 1600x1200 with 4AA and 8AF with fps in the 50s, which is smooth, I see no GT ownage here, since you're precious GT would have a nice FPS drop if you used your precious mixed mode AA.
Oh and you suck at flaming people, you pretty much suck at everything don't you?

 

[Mr Mean]

I just had flashback to pre-VESA days. You couldn't get past 640x480x16 unless the program was made for it

I hope we don't get a rerun of the dark ages.

I think there was PC gaming before VGA monitors every existed.

 

[The Batman]

Who's shafting them?

I suppose mirrors much like the thought proccess are banned from your household?

When people buy anything but the ultra highend, they shouldn't expect to be able to play at the highest settings, I mean they didn't dish out a wopping 100 more for the ultra highend.

Funny, that's exactly what people with GTs are doing. And they're doing it for a $100 less.

Secondly, you said your self the pro is playing at 1600x1200 with 4AA and 8AF with fps in the 50s, which is smooth, I see no GT ownage here, since you're precious GT would have a nice FPS drop if you used your precious mixed mode AA.

4xS takes about the same performence hit as 6xAA. And it still outperforms the Pro in apples to apples. But this wasn't a GT vs Pro post. Thanks for making it into one.

Oh and you suck at flaming people, you pretty much suck at everything don't you?

Whoa. Dude that was brilliant. I bow to your l337 witicisms.

 

[Mr Mean]

2GB of RAM? I'm really doubting this game will require more than 512 RAM to run at optimal settings. I don't think any game (even Doom 3), needs more than that to do that.

Doom III stutters at 512 MB of RAM with lots of harddrive stuttering. With 1 GB the stuttering is less. With 2GB it's silky smooth

 

[doh-nut]

I've read that review and you see both ATI and NVIDIA winning/losing. The loss of 3-10 FPS in high detail isn't much to warrant much fear in NVIDIA to be honest.

fear? i swear, some of you take your cards way too seriously.

I can see them catching up to this in the following driver revisions.

i also have a crystal ball and can see ati getting more performance in the following revisions.

 

[The Batman]

Doom III stutters at 512 MB of RAM with lots of harddrive stuttering. With 1 GB the stuttering is less. With 2GB it's silky smooth

I get absolutely no stuttering with 1gb. Well I do get the pause when entering a room but that's only at Ultra setttings which has more to do with with vram than system ram.

 

[gop]

I run doom 3 at the highest possible settings (with 4x aliasing, doubt anyone can run this game at constant 60fps with aliasing maxed) and with programs like Azureus, AIM, Winamp, running in the background. 1GB of RAM. It's "Silky Smooth", and in the task manager, it doesn't even come close to 1GB.

 

[Mr Mean]

fear? i swear, some of you take your cards way too seriously.



i also have a crystal ball and can see ati getting more performance in the following revisions.

I got an ATI card dude I've been watching from the sidelines. We don't have the advantage like ATI/Valve wants us to believe.

I am glad you can see that too. But the Nvidia releases more beta drivers than ATI does. Just recently they fixed my 256MB memory allocation bug for my card with their beta drivers.

 

[Michael Younger]

I feel like I have to make a comment about this.

I'm the person who posted this thread - in no way was my post meant to be 'ATI propaganda', as some people have suggested.

I simply saw this information in the December issue of PC Gamer and posted it. I realize that the vast majority of you are video-card experts (or at least that you think you are) and would already have known about the 20% claim. I posted the information for the one or two people like myself who aren't completely up to speed with regards to the politics of the video card industry.

By the way, I haven't even bought my PC yet. I'm still trying to figure out which computer to buy and which video card to put in it - which is how I ended up at this forum (which has been incredibly helpfull, by the way). Myself, I'm leaning towards buying an nVidia 6800 GT card. You see, I'm not the Minister Of Propaganda for ATI after all.

I can't understand why people would attack me for having posted such simple information?

 

[Mr Mean]

I get absolutely no stuttering with 1gb. Well I do get the pause when entering a room but that's only at Ultra setttings which has more to do with with vram than system ram.

Are you positive about that? I just upgraded to another GB of RAM and the (extremely minor) stuttering went away when I did. Also I have an ATI card which isn't great for OpenGL at the moment so it could have been the card

 

[Yiffy]

Doom3 needs 1GB to run smoothly, but go ahead and play with stutters doto paging..

Played Doom3 on 512MB of ram and a box with 1GB, didn't experience any sinificant stuttering on either system. On a box with 256MB it stuttered some.

 

[The Batman]

Heh, you know what I've noticed...every single press release we see a 10% dip in projected ATI pwnage. First they told us 40%, then they told us 30%, now they're telling us 20%. I'm sure this has done much to instill confidence...for Nvidia users.

 

[OriginalOCer]

As a matter of fact, HL2 is HEAVILY optimized for nVidia based cards... that is why they chose ATi as the preferred hardware... When they announced the Sept30th, 2003 release of HL2, Gabe Newell said they have been spending all of their time getting the game to run well on nV hardware. He said they spent FIVE TIMES as much time optimizing for nV hardware then they did for ATi hardware and it still didn't run nearly as well.

Of coarse this was prior to the NV40/R420, so its usefulness maybe a moot point, but ATi and Valve already signed the 'prefered hardware' contract and the rest is history.

So for those saying the game is optimized for ATi hardware you are wrong.

However, ATi have probably been working closely with Valve to optimize their drivers and tweak their hardware just like nVidia did with Doom3. Regardless of what the reason, and regardless of which card runs the game (or source engine) better, HL2 is going to be THE game release of this year. And I am not just saying the PC game release of this year... I am talking about Console games, PC Games, Board Games, War Games -- anything remotely related to gaming -- HL2 will be the best of all of them... by far.

or at least I hope so.

peace,
OriginalOCer

 

[The Batman]

Are you positive about that? I just upgraded to another GB of RAM and the (extremely minor) stuttering went away when I did. Also I have an ATI card which isn't great for OpenGL at the moment so it could have been the card

Ya I'm sure. I never experience any stuttering at high settings. Who knows what yours could be from. Try setting D3 to High Priority in the task manager...see if that helps any. Also, have you patched it to 1.1. That might fix it too.

 

[Moloch]

I suppose mirrors much like the thought proccess are banned from your household?



Funny, that's exactly what people with GTs are doing. And they're doing it for a $100 less.



4xS takes about the same performence hit as 6xAA. And it still outperforms the Pro in apples to apples. But this wasn't a GT vs Pro post. Thanks for making it into one.



Whoa. Dude that was brilliant. I bow to your l337 witicisms.

What the fuck are you talking about?
You said the pro was getting 50FPS at 4AA and 8AF.. what's the problem?
I'm the one who brought up 6AA and 16AF, for ultra highend users.

 

[Moloch]

Played Doom3 on 512MB of ram and a box with 1GB, didn't experience any sinificant stuttering on either system. On a box with 256MB it stuttered some.

I think you're not looking for stuttering, or don't konw what it is.
You realize doom3 takes up atleast 300MB of ram right? The os needs ram also.
Typlically with 512 of ram, I have 400MB free upon boot, after mousing around, I get down to around 300 free.. right now I have 274MB free with firefox open.
That proves there is going to be some paging going on, when you first load a level, for a few secs I typically saw some stuttering going on,and of coursse HDD activity.

 

[Michael Younger]

I started this thread last night, and when I came here to read it this morning... er, this afternoon, I was really depressed by all of the anger that's been generated.

I had no idea that a minor war was going to break out between those who own ATI cards and those who own nVidia cards. I feel like I'm back on the playground at elementary school.

But then I realized something. You guys aren't really angry, are you? I mean, you are angry, but it's a sort of mock anger that will blow away with the next wind. In other words, we're not supposed to take any of this seriously.

By the way, I've just decided, after reading some of these comments that nVIDIA SUCKS!

Just kidding.

 

[Moloch]

I started this thread last night, and when I came here to read it this morning... er, this afternoon, I was really depressed by all of the anger that's been generated.

I had no idea that a minor war was going to break out between those who own ATI cards and those who own nVidia cards. I feel like I'm back on the playground at elementary school.

But then I realized something. You guys aren't really angry, are you? I mean, you are angry, but it's a sort of mock anger that will blow away with the next wind. In other words, we're not supposed to take any of this seriously.

By the way, I've just decided, after reading some of these comments that nVIDIA SUCKS!

Just kidding.

It was bount to happen.
And I'm not mad.. I enjoy argueing with nvidia fans

 

[TheLonelySwedish]

I think we should all wait to bash each other's card of choice with biased comments until this winter's refresh in video cards (6900, X--- XT, whatever). assuming they aren't paper launches, of course.....

 

[Sly]

If you think all this bashing is anger. Wait til Nov.16. Well know then who's gonna be holding the hammer

 

[CleanSlate]

that's why you find the setting that is playable on a certain card (resolution/aa/af)

why play at a setting that isn't playable?

most people adjust their settings to get the highest IQ possible that is playable on their card

My point was that if we had that extra 20% at a certain point in playability vs unplayability, you wouldn't have to bump down the res or aa/af thus playable at a higher setting compared to the card with 20% less performance.

~Adam

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

A64 and nVidia all the way!