About those Dell 6800 GTO's

[R1ckCa1n]

How many people are going to be pissed off when they find out that GTO is a overclocked 6800? lol

 

[Banko]

Well doesn't that mean that if it says 12x1 that the pipes are unlocked in rivatuner?

 

[rancor]

Dell isn't charging the full price of the gt also, its a 200 and odd bucks less then the the xt.

But its bad marketing, just like what Dell did with the geforce 4 mx's and alot of people were fooled then.

 

[pxc]

oh no! Imagine the horror when someone orders the "x800 SE" from dell and finds out they only have 8 pipelines.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

oh no! Imagine the horror when someone orders the "x800 SE" from dell and finds out they only have 8 pipelines.

Give it up man.... You would have a case if it was the X800 Pro SE or X800 XT SE.

 

[rancor]

Give it up man.... You would have a case if it was the X800 Pro SE or X800 XT SE.

Actaully he does have a point, just as some else said alot of people buying a Dell, all they see is x800 or 6800 gt, everything else they seem to forget about. Dell has always done this, its nothing new.

Alot of companies do it, all the people that tried to buy a x800 xt pe from Gateway, the gate way reps said that the 9800xt was faster lol

 

[pxc]

Give it up man.... You would have a case if it was the X800 Pro SE or X800 XT SE.

give what up? that the x800 SE is SEverely crippled? i thought we were trying to make sure consumers were informed, not do something silly like simply bash the competition.

 

[killerD]

give what up? that the x800 SE is SEverely crippled? i thought we were trying to make sure consumers were informed, not do something silly like simply bash the competition.

The SE for ATI has historically been a crippled version so most buyers have an idea of what they're buying. With GTO you are essentially naming it exactly the same only to rip off the customer by giveing them half a card. Don't tell me you didn't think that card was a GT when you first read about it. Whoever is behind this marketing scheme, be it Dell or Nvidia, is going to have a tyrade of angry customers.

 

[12 Axes]

Whoever is behind this marketing scheme, be it Dell or Nvidia, is going to have a tyrade of angry customers.


I doubt it I'd be surprised if 5% of the people that buy the Dell will know the difference.

 

[DaCoOlNeSs]

Whoever is behind this marketing scheme, be it Dell or Nvidia, is going to have a tyrade of angry customers.


I doubt it I'd be surprised if 5% of the people that buy the Dell will know the difference.

yeah, becuase hardcore gamers that want a 6800GT are going to buy a PC from Dell

 

[WuTangClam]

Dell users would probably think it was faster than the GT based on the name alone.

"OMG, it's the video card reincarnation of the classic muscle car!! AND it has as much ram as the rest of my computer!!"

 

[killerD]

Whoever is behind this marketing scheme, be it Dell or Nvidia, is going to have a tyrade of angry customers.


I doubt it I'd be surprised if 5% of the people that buy the Dell will know the difference.

You may be right, but then you are also saying most Dell buyers' are indifferent to video cards and will just go with the default config (which is ATI). After all, $135 more is alot of money to spend if your not sure what it does or how much it helps.

 

[pxc]

With GTO you are essentially naming it exactly the same only to rip off the customer by giveing them half a card. Don't tell me you didn't think that card was a GT when you first read about it.

Actually I didn't think it was a full GT because 1) GTO isn't the same name as GT, 2) I read the specs and 3) I have purchased Dell systems before.

The name isn't the same any more than an x800 SE is the same name as an x800 Pro (or that a Pontiac GTO is the same as a Mustang GT). The card did deserve a new name since it's faster than a 6800 but slower than a 6800GT, and it would have been better if Dell or nvidia (whoever named it) would have called it something else besides "GTO." But it is just as easy to argue that now with the GTO name, you know it's not a GT in the same way you know an x800 SE card is not an x800 Pro.

But maybe it's better to list out the differences...
6800: 12 pipelines, 128MB 700MHz memory, 325MHz core, AGP 8x
6800 GT: 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 350MHz core, AGP 8x
6800 GTO: 12 pipelines, 256MB 900MHz memory, 350MHz core, x16 PCI-E
6800 GTO = ~70% of a 6800GT

x800 Pro: 12 pipelines, 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 475MHz core, x16 PCI-E
x800 XT: 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 500MHz core, x16 PCI-E (AGP 8x is same specs on both XT & Pro?)
x800 SE: 8 pipelines, 128MB 700MHz memory, 425MHz core, x16 PCI-E
x800 SE = ~50% (generous) of an x800 Pro

and let the reader decide if both naming conventions are clear?

 

[rancor]

You may be right, but then you are also saying most Dell buyers' are indifferent to video cards and will just go with the default config (which is ATI). After all, $135 more is alot of money to spend if your not sure what it does or how much it helps.

well also if ya look at the XPS system its not an el cheapo, they are spending quite a bit cash, and 135 bucks is not much to add to it either.

 

[killerD]

Actually I didn't think it was a full GT because 1) GTO isn't the same name as GT, 2) I read the specs and 3) I have purchased Dell systems before.

The name isn't the same anymore than x800 SE is the same name as a x800 Pro (or that a Pontiac GTO is the same as a Mustang GT). The card did deserve a new name since it's faster than a 6800 but slower than a 6800GT, and it would have been better if Dell or nvidia (whoever named it) would have called it something else besides "GTO." But it is just as easy to argue that now with the GTO name, you know it's not a GT in the same way you know an x800 SE card is not an x800 Pro.

But maybe it's better to list out the differences...
6800: 12 pipelines, 128MB 700MHz memory, 325MHz core, AGP 8x
6800 GT: 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 350MHz core, AGP 8x
6800 GTO: 12 pipelines, 256MB 900MHz memory, 350MHz core, x16 PCI-E

x800 Pro: 12 pipelines, 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 475MHz core, x16 PCI-E
x800 XT: 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 500MHz core, x16 PCI-E (AGP 8x is same specs on both XT & Pro?)
x800 SE: 8 pipelines, 128MB 700MHz memory, 425MHz core, x16 PCI-E

and let the reader decide if both naming conventions are clear?

Actually pxc, I thought it was just a typo at first. I believe there intent is to deceive and are gambling enough buyers will not take notice so they can make a few extra bucks on Nvidia's reject chips.

 

[12 Axes]

Many people are not as informed as you or I. They will buy the system because it is marketed as a gaming system. The dell rep will tell them this card is better than that and the options they choose will be based on how much they want to spend. They will be perfectly happy with their system and play all their games at whatever settings are autodetected.

Again I believe this will be true for 95% of their customers.

 

[rancor]

Many people are not as informed as you or I. They will buy the system because it is marketed as a gaming system. The dell rep will tell them this card is better than that and the options they choose will be based on how much they want to spend. They will be perfectly happy with their system and play all their games at whatever settings are autodetected.

Again I believe this will be true for 95% of their customers.

Very true

 

[pxc]

Actually pxc, I thought it was just a typo at first. I believe there intent is to deceive and are gambling enough buyers will not take notice so they can make a few extra bucks on Nvidia's reject chips.

well, at least you're being logical and consistent.

 

[fallguy]

I think the GTO is confusing. Looking at a 6800 GT, and a 6800 GTO, I would think the GTO would be faster, looking at the name only. And probably most people would agree on that. While I dont purchase any hardware without knowing the true specs, and before doing some research, the vast majority of people dont have a clue.

I also think the X800SE card is not named very well for the average consumer to figure out. Its seems logical that SE would be "Second Edition", or "Special Edition", and thus better. Since nowhere on the box does it say what "SE" stands for, or I missed it. SE has been their tag for the budget cards for the last few generations, so its not so bad.

nVidia did the same thing with their Ti4800 line. The Ti4800 is a Ti4600 with AGP 8X. While the Ti4800SE is a Ti440 with AGP 8X. Looking at the names, most would assume the Ti4800SE would be faster, but its not.

And we all know what is probably the worst offender, the GF4MX. I dont know how they come up with these names, and if they intentially try to confuse the consumer, but it sure seems so. Most people have no clue what they have in their current PC. Its so annoying trying to help someone, and you ask them what they have, and they cant reply with any facts. Lots of money is being made off of the ignorance of consumers, that much is for sure. Hopefully most people are smart enough to think to themselves, if a SE or GTO costs less than their similarly named counterparts, they know it wont be as good. Because in PC hardware, its usually "you get what you pay for."

 

[rancor]

Its on nV's site,

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

Available models: GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 6800 GT, GeForce 6800 GTO*, and GeForce 6800.
*OEM only model.

 

[^eMpTy^]

I have to agree...the name GTO is pretty fucking obnoxious...hell why not call it the 6800 Ultra PE (pussified edition)

 

[sparks]

DON'T feel like this is the first time DELL has pulled this crap
they sold 9700 pros.
only thing was it would not do std 9700 speeds...seems that the only
PRO about it was what was reported in the bios

DELL sucks big time always has always will....sell junk to idiots

 

[M1dknight]

Why did they have to go do that? Up until this nVidia have played nice with no stupid names designed to decieve customers.

Really there is no excuse it looks so close to GT but is not. The only reason I can see to call it that is too boost sales.

 

[pxc]

DON'T feel like this is the first time DELL has pulled this crap
they sold 9700 pros.
only thing was it would not do std 9700 speeds...seems that the only
PRO about it was what was reported in the bios

1) it was the 9700 TX (I had one), and it wasn't advertised as a 9700 Pro or 9700 np... it was advertised as a 9700 TX and clock speeds were listed (263/263). It was actually a pretty decent overclocker. I ran mine at 295/315 for a year after flashing the BIOS to a 9700 np.

2) "9700 PRO" was reported in the drivers, not the BIOS. That's wasn't a dell problem since even retail cards showed the same thing ("Pro" added to model name, even after the 9600 and 9800 introductions). Thankfully, later drivers showed the more accurate "9700/9700 Pro Series" id to avoid confusion.

 

[rancor]

Why did they have to go do that? Up until this nVidia have played nice with no stupid names designed to decieve customers.

Really there is no excuse it looks so close to GT but is not. The only reason I can see to call it that is too boost sales.

Yep a very stupid move on nV's part

 

[Grandmasta_J]

DON'T feel like this is the first time DELL has pulled this crap
they sold 9700 pros.
only thing was it would not do std 9700 speeds...seems that the only
PRO about it was what was reported in the bios

DELL sucks big time always has always will....sell junk to idiots

Just because somebody is "less informed" than you doesn't make them an idiot. Maybe you should get your facts straight and know what YOU are talking about before you post.

 

[M1dknight]

While I do agree that companies are at fault for using bad naming scheme's I do also believe that customers who don't do any research before spending $1500+ on a computer are equally at blame, although to call them idiots is harsh I know plenty of very intelligent people (some with Phd's) who just are not computer litterate but then how much do you know about say mechanical engineering or fluid dynamic's (probably not much so in their eye's you would also be an idiot)

But back on point seen as educating the masses is as likely as world peace we are going to have to rely on the graphic's card companies to stop naming thing's like this but then that is not very likely either is it.

Me thinks the world is screwed!

 

[sparks]

I am very sorry for saying idiot.

I am not and was not referring to everyone who has a dell product.
I was saying the ones who get the dell parts with the deceptive names.

yes they were called 9700TX on dell site. BUT they used the name pro in the
descriptions and most were purchased by places like atacom who sold them as
PROSand I have seen 2 that reported as pros in the bios, but when you go to ATI site and put in the part number serial number it comes up and says 9700 PRO sold under the dell label

oh yea and lets not forget the 8500...not a dell thing just a way of selling the crippled 8500 as an 8500...went on till everyone raised hell...then ATI jumps in and say oh we had no idea....

 

[The Batman]

ATI fans really have no place to bitch about this. X600 anyone?

The difference here is that Dell is the one doing it, whereas with the X600 it's ATI being assholerific.

How do I know it's Dell? Simple, check the inf of the latest beta forcewares. Sorry I had to shit on your parade Rick, better luck next time old boy.

 

[Rori]

ATI fans really have no place to bitch about this. X600 anyone?

The difference here is that Dell is the one doing it, whereas with the X600 it's ATI being assholerific.

How do I know it's Dell? Simple, check the inf of the latest beta forcewares. Sorry I had to shit on your parade Rick, better luck next time old boy.

One word, MARKETING.

To imply that one company attempts to sell their highest margin cards through marketing while another does not is either remarkably uninformed or just stupid. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll take your statement to mean that IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE it's Dell's marketing department, not nVidias. Both ATI and nVidia attempt to sell their high margin, mid-range cards by attaching them to their bleeding-edge performers. That is MARKETING. At some point, it is the responsibility of the consumer to read through the marketing and make the best choices. Dell and companies like them exist because there is a huge chunk of the population who prefer to just buy the recommended systems rather than do the effort to research the best choices.

Don't blame Dell, ATI, or nVidia. If they didn't market their products intelligently, someone else would come in and steal their marketshare by doing a better job at marketing. Yeah, Dell is being pretty crappy by making it SO CLOSE in name to the GT... but I agree at least 90% of people buying a Dell will never know the difference. As long as they can play the Sims at default resolution, they'll be happy.

 

[pxc]

Batman and Rori: it's not Dell's fault. nvidia named the chip:

Its on nV's site,

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

Available models: GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 6800 GT, GeForce 6800 GTO*, and GeForce 6800.
*OEM only model.

And I think most of us agree anyways that GTO was a bad choice of name. But it's clearly not the same name as GT as a couple people above seem to think.

 

[CastleBravo]

Both ATI and nVidia are selling cards with deliberately deceptive names.

Geforce FX 5200 sounds cool, but is slower than a Geforce 4Ti. Geforce 4 MX is slower than Geforce 3 Ti.
All ATI products that end in "SE" are slower than products 2+ generations older. 9800 SE < 9600 XT.

Hell, Asus sells 6800 series cards for GT prices that are plain 6800s with extra ram, and try to pass them off as mega-cards.

Bottom line is, buyer beware, they are all scumbags.

 

[Lazier_Said]

Nvidia's 5x00 series were reasonably straight forward within their own generation.

With about two exceptions (5200U > 64 bit 5600, and 5600U > 5700LE) , any 5200 < 5600 < 5700 < 5800 < 5900 < 5950.

The 6800s are much worse. They have taken a page from ATI's playbook (The 9800 is good, so lets call every card from $125-500 with a 300% performance spread 9800s) and figuring out just what 6800 you're getting takes some research.

Both companies should be ashamed, ATI for starting it and Nvidia for sinking to their level.

 

[fallguy]

Care to explain how ATi "started it"?

 

[The Batman]

Batman and Rori: it's not Dell's fault. nvidia named the chip:



And I think most of us agree anyways that GTO was a bad choice of name. But it's clearly not the same name as GT as a couple people above seem to think.

No, Nvidia DIDN'T name the chip. They just stuff that on their website so people know what the hell that card is since Dell isn't being helpful [never is]. If Nvidia had named the chip it would be in the inf of the latest forcewares (66.60s). If you pop open your own inf [if you're using the 66.32s it'll be dated 9-04] you'll notice a few OEM cards, the 6800 LE, and the 6600 LX. Yet no mention of a GTO. If you recall we first found out about the these aforementioned cards through the infs, as such, I think we can deduce that Dell named this one.

 

[The Batman]

Both ATI and nVidia are selling cards with deliberately deceptive names.

Geforce FX 5200 sounds cool, but is slower than a Geforce 4Ti. Geforce 4 MX is slower than Geforce 3 Ti.
All ATI products that end in "SE" are slower than products 2+ generations older. 9800 SE < 9600 XT.

Bottom line is, buyer beware, they are all scumbags.

No. Neither of those naming scemes is deceptive. The FX 5200 has the full featureset of the FX line so it deserves the moniker. It's the same story with the SEs, same featureset, same name, it's not deceptive at all [unless the buyer is a fucking idiot, but that's God's fault for tricking those poor people into thinking they're human].

What would be deceptive would be the GeForce 4 MXs and the Radeon 9000-9200s. Neither card have the full featureset of their names and as such THAT was deceptive.

 

[CraftyOtter]

Shame on Dell and their marketing people. Hordes of casual computer buyers will be tricked by this deliberate smoke and mirrors tactic.

 

[rancor]

Care to explain how ATi "started it"?

I don't think you can blame anyone for starting this, its part of marketing, its been done in every industry for eons.

 

[t@xman]

x800 Pro: 12 pipelines, 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 475MHz core, x16 PCI-E
x800 XT: 16 pipelines, 256MB 1000MHz memory, 500MHz core, x16 PCI-E (AGP 8x is same specs on both XT & Pro?)
x800 SE: 8 pipelines, 128MB 700MHz memory, 425MHz core, x16 PCI-E
x800 SE = ~50% (generous) of an x800 Pro

and let the reader decide if both naming conventions are clear?

Just to clarify, you'll find that the x800SE actually performs at around 75% performance of the x800pro.......or at least mine does(I get about ~8900 on 3dmark2k3 with a 3Ghz P4)! Now I know that going by stats alone this shouldn't be the case, but it is! I was actually quite shocked at how well it does(absolutely hammers my 9800xt in my other system), and I'd say it's actually quite a bargain.

Now maybe we can get nVidia and ATI to agree on whether an "XT" is shit hot or crippled as I find that particularly confusing.

 

[lithium726]

Dell users would probably think it was faster than the GT based on the name alone.

"OMG, it's the video card reincarnation of the classic muscle car!! AND it has as much ram as the rest of my computer!!"

hahahahahahaah so true... the car part AND the memory part...