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A64 OCd vs. P4C OCd....

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LstBrunnenG

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If I were to buy a 3.0 and to take it to say 3.8 or higher, would it be better than the comparably priced 3200+ with its customary 200 Mhz OC? I mean, plenty of benchmarks are posted of stock A64s vs stock P4Cs, and some even compare o/ced P4Cs to stock A64s or vice versa, but you never really see any direct comparisons.
 
the athlon 64bit is going to clean up in games. my p4@4.0 cant hang in games with my 2300mhz athlon 64 using the same hd,ram,video card. i usally run the p4 @3.8 just to keep from killing the cpu
 
[hard]420 said:
the athlon 64bit is going to clean up in games. my p4@4.0 cant hang in games with my 2300mhz athlon 64 using the same hd,ram,video card. i usally run the p4 @3.8 just to keep from killing the cpu
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Show some benchies otherwise I call 100% bullshit.


pretty much every review I have looked at shows a p4 northwood @3.2 beating an A64 3200+ like a north end hooker in most popular games and everything else. In fact in T's H review of the 3.2 northwood vs the 3200+, the northwood edged it out in every single test.

so a P4 @ 4gig compared to an A64 overclocked 100mhz... I fuckin doubt it unless you can prove me wrong.
 
Big Worm said:
T's H review
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theres the problem...

its the general consensus around here that amd is better for gaming... and the a64 runs 32 bit code better than its 32 bit predecessors (look for the paris core very soon, its a64 with the 64 bit removed), so wouldnt it be easily surmisable that the a64 would run games better than the p4? now oc to oc, may be different... but i'd pick a 64 bit over a p4 oc'ed or not for gaming.
 
Big Worm said:
....pretty much every review I have looked at shows a p4 northwood @3.2 beating an A64 3200+ like a north end hooker in most popular games and everything else. In fact in T's H review of the 3.2 northwood vs the 3200+, the northwood edged it out in every single test.
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No.. The reality is that even the lowest Athlon64 2800+ has an edge over the Pentium4 3.4 GHz. Let alone 3.2 GHz.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=33
 
amd 64 has the advandtage in gaming by a fair margin. intel in multi tasking but who on here builds these rigs for multi tasking cmon now ? :eek:
 
agreed, but a p4 @ 4.0ghz should not be outbenched by a 2300mhz athlon64 in games. The point is if you're going to throw a statement out like that then you gotta put the numbers up or else you're just like apple claiming to have the faster and first 64 bit computer with the G5.
 
So it'd generally be a good idea to wait for more money to do a full mobo/ram/processor combo buy rather than just buy a 3.0C right now and hope I can get it to 4.0?

I don't know if I could ever put an AMD in my current case though.....an AMD in a case with blue LEDs and cold cathodes just seems...wrong somehow.
 
now the thing is that if you paid attention to those bechmarks the athlon 64 is only better in games at resolutions that most people with that kind of hardware WONT USE!! and another thing is that at 170-200fps is the same as 45-60fps TO YOU!! now pay attention to the numbers when as the resolution in those games go up to wut we would normally use at 1200x1600 it all averages out as its more dependent on the video card than the cpu. and now coupled with hypertheading for multitasking most users using a pentium 4 will get a better overall experience than those who use the athlon 64, why? because those only benchmark numbers and not user experience numbers. i fail to see the difference between 200fps and 45fps sure it looks better on paper but it reality it makes no difference. now this is the same as choosing ati over nivida for video cards. smart users realize that they care more about image quality rather than meaningless fps. now since our eyes dun keep track of anything over 30fps the other performance features stand out more. im sure amd realized this as well thats y they are not trying to cranck up the cpu speed as much are compared to offering more features. now if you are a geek and build ur computer solely for the benchmark numbers then perhaps getting an athlon 64 is for you. but if you are you like me who build my computer for general usability you will realize why going intel is the best bet for now. until amd put hyperthreading into their cpus or come up with something that matches the multitheaded performance of a p4 i will stick with intel. damn geeks only care about number and dont have the slightest clue wut they are talking about everyone saying amd is better for games its so stupid.
 
... :eek:
maybe you can say that if you have both. do you ? well i do.
its completely true my A64_3200@2.25 beats my 3.0c @3.76, both with and without same ram and video. this is with games and benching and anything video related it seems.

multi-tasking, encoding, cpu benchmarks, memory benchmarks... p4 won.

both are water cooled in air conditioned area. i had the 3.0prescott but it simply was too hot, even when it was doing nothing. again water cooled 120F just standing still.
 
Big Worm said:
so a P4 @ 4gig compared to an A64 overclocked 100mhz... I fuckin doubt it unless you can prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

I think you mean 300mhz and not 100mhz. The processor T's H used in their review was the 2.0ghz 3200+ Clawhammer and not the 2.2ghz 3200+ Newcastle (unless there is some new review I'm missing on their site).

I'd believe it though... not in EVERY game, but definitely in some of them. The A64's just flat out rock.
 
i was using a 3200+ 1meg cache CG@2360 k8n neo 8x295 htt bus when i ran the benchmarks. give me a few days to finish some things up and ill compare both systems in gaming using the same hardware other than cpu,and mobo :)


you really have to have both system to see the benfit of gaming. multi tasking the p4 serves the amd on a silver plater
 
Yes I will admit that the T's H review of the cpu's had a selected number of games that the p4 may have had an advantage in (q3 being one for sure)

but I just can't see an a64 @ 2.3 ghz beating out a *properly configured* p4 @ 4.0ghz..

were things like iaa enabled on the p4 setup? what about memroy speed and dividers? this stuff can really make a p4 fly.
 
kynaccrue said:
i fail to see the difference between 200fps and 45fps sure it looks better on paper but it reality it makes no difference.
Click to expand...

I loled. Putting this little discussion aside, this is comedy.
 
You guys are all fucking rediculous, every one of you is an intel fanboy in denial that your oh-so-lovely P4's are getting pwnd by a64s in games.
 
5/4 divider on the p4 same hard drives, ram, video card etc on the amd machine. you really cant tell the difference unless you have both machines next to each other
 
A 1:1 divider is much better for the Pentium 4 as it allows greater memory bandwidth. Which is what the Pentium 4 wants.
 
kynaccrue said:
i fail to see the difference between 200fps and 45fps sure it looks better on paper but it reality it makes no difference. now this is the same as choosing ati over nivida for video cards. smart users realize that they care more about image quality rather than meaningless fps. now since our eyes dun keep track of anything over 30fps the other performance features stand out more. im sure amd realized this as well thats y they are not trying to cranck up the cpu speed as much are compared to offering more features.
Click to expand...

wow. sorry, but that is very incorrect.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
 
[hard]420 - 8x295 is beau-teee-fuLL , please tell me what ram you are using cause i want 295 x 8 too :) gimmie gimmie info .
You guys are all fucking rediculous, every one of you is an intel fanboy in denial that your oh-so-lovely P4's are getting pwnd by a64s in games.
Click to expand...
... talk about issues. :rolleyes: Some of you prefer to use this forum as your own personal pissing contest, whats that all about? I buy things with integrity, if that means buying both an A64_3200 1meger and a 3.0c to play with ... who are you to judge? they both kick ass yet have thier subtle advantages. Theres no hidden agenda or conspiracy, its just a simple fact that my 3.76 BARELY beat my 2.25... period. Dont believe me? good - deal with it.
 
purefun65 said:
amd 64 has the advandtage in gaming by a fair margin. intel in multi tasking but who on here builds these rigs for multi tasking cmon now ? :eek:
Click to expand...
I do. With my dual Opterons :D
 
the new corsair xl3200. using the k8n neo and seting the ram to 133 speed in bios running around 215 mhz i think on the ram with the htt bus at 295. the k8n is very picky one day it ocs grat others it doesnt. using the beta 125 bios. the k8n is also not running right now as im testing a new nf3 250 mobo

you can check my review of the ram on overclockersclub.com the link is on the top of the page. this is some killer ram and i have yet to max it out as my p4 rig is down right now .fixing to put it on water demonic cooling sent me a block to review
 
Liam said:
You guys are all fucking rediculous, every one of you is an intel fanboy in denial that your oh-so-lovely P4's are getting pwnd by a64s in games.
Click to expand...

Watch the language lest ye be flamed
 
Liam said:
You guys are all fucking rediculous, every one of you is an intel fanboy in denial that your oh-so-lovely P4's are getting pwnd by a64s in games.
Click to expand...

K.

gj you got us there. now that we have established that we are all bitter fanboys, can we actually answer the question.

It would seem as though p4 require a hefty oc to match the A64's gaming performance, but in terms of other things the p4 pulls ahead, especially given heavy multitasking. Therefore, gaming = A64 and other stuff = p4.

I think this is a very old point. However, in terms of oc'ability, the p4's seem to win, which will be great if it holds true when Intel finally gives in and ships a 64 bit desktop cpu.
 
ehZn said:
It would seem as though p4 require a hefty oc to match the A64's gaming performance, but in terms of other things the p4 pulls ahead, especially given heavy multitasking. Therefore, gaming = A64 and other stuff = p4.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case. I've never used Athlon64 system. But from what I've read, Athlon64 does multitasking as well as Pentium4 does, if not better.
 
Well, HT only gives about 10-16% in multitasking performance, and 4-8% in single tasking performance loss. So, it's not a very effective technology.
 
kynaccrue said:
now the thing is that if you paid attention to those bechmarks the athlon 64 is only better in games at resolutions that most people with that kind of hardware WONT USE!! and another thing is that at 170-200fps is the same as 45-60fps TO YOU!! now pay attention to the numbers when as the resolution in those games go up to wut we would normally use at 1200x1600 it all averages out as its more dependent on the video card than the cpu. and now coupled with hypertheading for multitasking most users using a pentium 4 will get a better overall experience than those who use the athlon 64, why? because those only benchmark numbers and not user experience numbers. i fail to see the difference between 200fps and 45fps sure it looks better on paper but it reality it makes no difference. now this is the same as choosing ati over nivida for video cards. smart users realize that they care more about image quality rather than meaningless fps. now since our eyes dun keep track of anything over 30fps the other performance features stand out more. im sure amd realized this as well thats y they are not trying to cranck up the cpu speed as much are compared to offering more features. now if you are a geek and build ur computer solely for the benchmark numbers then perhaps getting an athlon 64 is for you. but if you are you like me who build my computer for general usability you will realize why going intel is the best bet for now. until amd put hyperthreading into their cpus or come up with something that matches the multitheaded performance of a p4 i will stick with intel. damn geeks only care about number and dont have the slightest clue wut they are talking about everyone saying amd is better for games its so stupid.
Click to expand...


they benchmark better at lower resolutions because lower resolutions are more processor limited. get it, its a better processor.... so it benchmarks better.

ooo and by the way, a64 still owns p4 at higher resolutions.

damn fanboys only talking from straight out their ass without having the slightest clue, saying intel is better for gaming is so stupid.
 
Go away. Oh, and @[hard]420 - which page is the BIOS download located on?? I'm having fun reading through that thread got to page 5 already. :D ..... :( :(
Oh, and is BIOS 1.2 beta 5 the one I want? Or is it 1.15?? :confused:
 
ya good read [hard]420 , and who is faking with you ? who doesnt believe your benchies?

the A64 does infact multi-task better ... when windows 64bit is running that is.
i guess owning both does not give someone anymore credit then someone who does not own both... crazy world i tell ya. :p
 
jamestime88 said:
ooo and by the way, a64 still owns p4 at higher resolutions.
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Now, this is interesting.

Can you prove your claim ? Show me Athlon64 system performs better than Pentium4 system with ATI X800XT PE or nVIDIA GeForce 6800Ultra running at 1600x1200 resolution (and/or higher) with maximum visual quality settings.
 
First off seriously people unless you're really immature and a noob then I'd stop swearing and resorting to using the word fanboy, pwned, and owned because it really has become lame.

Honestly, the point is that both the AMD 64 and the p4's are great cpus and each has their own special quirks. Neither of them pwn or own the other. Seriously, go pm an admin and tell them that your p4 pwns the AMD64 or your AMD64 owns the p4 and see what kind of response u get.

The facts of what processor does what better has already been talked to death about on these forums. Tests show clearly that the AMD 64 clearly has a strong edge on gaming performance. The memory controller used by AMD was definitely a good decision and offers a great solution. Having a 64 bit ready cpu is definitely a plus and not a disadvantage. (Although I hope that no one actually bought one solely for this reason because that would be falling for the blue crystal tactic of the corporations and seen in the former intel engineer's lecture at Stanford). The p4 on the other hand is also a great processor that has HT which is much like, imo, like having 64 bit capability. But the main difference between the p4 and the AMD 64, that one can bench, lies in things like encoding times.

Anyways, the point is that both have their quirks and each excel better in a certain area. Sometimes these differences are noticeable (by some) and sometimes not, but certainly one does not own the other. So if you're looking to build a system, then buy according to what you're going to be most compatible with. And from what I've seen it seems everyone whose got a AMD64 or a P4 loves their system and has a little bit of fan in them so it goes to say neither system is too shabby.

Now about the bench from hard420, the word "bullshit" used right after your original post was a bit too strong, but i think Bigworm was responding to the words "clean up." The point is either don't use extreme language or don't take it personal.
Honestly though, I think it would be beneficial to see a detailed bench with numbers, parts used, and how u made steps to make sure that your bench was not biased towards one system or the other.

So, in conclusion thanks for reading this long post and I hope everyone could contribute more concrete info and learning rather than bickering aobut which cpu or company is better.
 
...enough. I would remind you nice folks to read and follow the rules, the first on the list being:
(1) Absolutely NO FLAMING OR NAME CALLING. Mutual respect and civilized conversation is the required norm.
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This rule is important enough to be first on the list; the "management" is serious about this one. You can argue all you want, but when it gets personal, you can count on a Mod, SuperMod, or Admin stepping in. If the ban axe has to swing to make the point.....consider this "fair warning".

Come on folks....argue the facts. Please....??

Thank You - B.B.S.
 
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