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A3 Bigadv times

Don't forget, A3 runs better on windows, much better, so I'm sure that well see a healthy curve once these hit windows
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Would be nice if they made the same points as current bigadv. even better if we would be able to run these on i5-750's @ around 3.8 these have plenty of power to make the deadline. And im guessing there are a lot of i5-750's around. plus lower memory demands. though only time will tell.
 
lehmann said:
Would be nice if they made the same points as current bigadv. even better if we would be able to run these on i5-750's @ around 3.8 these have plenty of power to make the deadline. And im guessing there are a lot of i5-750's around. plus lower memory demands. though only time will tell.
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the problem with allowing it to run on i5 750's is there are a ton of people that arent running them at 3.8ghz and would end up wasting WU's because they wouldnt finish by the deadline thus creating more havoc on the FF with people bitching about why they arent getting points.. it makes sense why they are blocking them but theres no reason they should be blocking the phenom II x6's.. the only other way to allow the i5 750 is by using an processor ID check and clock check which i doubt they really want to do..
 
I know people have complained about this forever and wanting bigadv to go a3 but honestly now that we're seeing these shit points - I'd rather they left it alone.

Let bigadv run a2 and a3, let whatever people want a2's to keep running a2's for more points and other people who want a3 can run the a3's. Really it's some crap. Why not keep points the same? First of all it's retarded that they're benching on such non-optimized systems to begin with (thought Evil said Mac Pros?). Bunch of BS.

I'd rather keep the VM's, lose 5gb of ram, and keep my 34min TPF's and 24k PPD+bonus at the current clocks rather than dropping down to (according to that link and using i7 3.6ghz as base) 49min TPF and under 18k PPD+bonus, that's crap, absolute crap. At best, what do we gain off these prelim #s vs true Win clients...maybe a few minutes less TPF and 1-2k higher PPD+bonus? Thanks but no thanks. :mad:

I was looking forward to this, now I'm dreading this and the inevitable switch.
 
Just wait for windows guys, just be patient

also, were not here for the points, and whatever shift in points happens it happens to every folder, it's just being adjusted, kinda like monetary values
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Point are point. As long as they are the same for all teams.

With -bigadv coming to windows it will be easier. I understand a point drop.

I can. Also undertand a point drop so that only the top end systems (i7s 920/930s are not anymore) are the ones that get the extra big bonus.
 
What about those of us who don't run Windows? What do we have to look forward to with A3 bigadv? Am I going to have to spend $400 for Windows licenses just to be close to my previous ppd with Linux and A2's? I'm going to have to go with zero on this one.
 
I have lived through point's ajustments in the past. Nothing that's comming will be as bad as spending 10k to 15k in parts and electric in a 3 year period only to have stanford change the rules soo newer parts that do say 10 X the work get 100 X more points. 2.2 celeron vs i5-750
 
musky said:
What about those of us who don't run Windows? What do we have to look forward to with A3 bigadv? Am I going to have to spend $400 for Windows licenses just to be close to my previous ppd with Linux and A2's? I'm going to have to go with zero on this one.
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Technet my friend.
 
It is a subscription from MS that gives you 10 keys for each version of windows (win7 home and win 7 ult count as dif versions) and all of the office and other apps.

I got my a number of months ago I filled up my sever with ISOs and keys from MS sever.
 
Kendrak said:
Technet my friend.
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OK, $350, not $400...

Kendrak said:
I can also undertand a point drop so that only the top end systems (i7s 920/930s are not anymore) are the ones that get the extra big bonus..
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A Core I7 4-core at close to 4GHz is still one of the fastest systems you can buy today. I have a hard time not calling this a "top end system" even now.
 
Yes, this has happened a few times before. The main issue I see with this core migration apart from points is the investment folders make, especially the top tier home folders on every team. None of us AFAIK is in this just for the points, it's the science that got us involved in the first place. What can make points adjustments difficult sometimes is seeing one's investment run aground not delivering what had been expected after but a short period. Most of us have been running -bigadv for only a quarter or two. So, it has been way under a year.

Many folders take weeks, sometimes months to research, browse forums, calculate costs, contact sellers, build systems and optimize farms only to see the formula they've been banking on change dramatically. It's the folder that produces the science after all, and it's the folder's investment that is behind the production. One thing fuels the other and they cannot be separated. By no means am I casting a critical eye or pointing fingers at anyone; I take all change with stride and it's OK with me whatever may transpire. But, I'm in agreement with lehmann in principle.
 
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but remember, bigadv was designed for server class units, 8-64 core rigs. It just happened to be that ther was HT on the i7's and with a sizeable OC you could hit the minimum server req's

If the i7 had been an OC dud then bigadv would still be in the server realm where it was inteded for

Also, we spend the bucks to keep our points higher than other people (in theory). So what if we loose 20k ppd, everyone else we compete against does too, so in all fairness, the race between eachother and even teams wont be affected, they will just lower the scale so each point kinda gets its value back.

I'm gonna be racing to catch musky here soon. If things stay the way they are now, we'll both be over 100k in a month
If they change the value, we'll still be neck and neck production wise just the values will be less, you see what I mean?
 
musky said:
OK, $350, not $400...



A Core I7 4-core at close to 4GHz is still one of the fastest systems you can buy today. I have a hard time not calling this a "top end system" even now.
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I honestly expected A3 big adv to only run on 16+ thread systems. But they left it at 8 threads, but upped the power needed in those 8 threads.

If you hit technet on a sale, it costs the same as 1 win 7 ult retail pack. I got mine for $270.

As has been said, it hits us all the same. Also running on the very edge of folding gives great points but can go up and down. It has happend before. GPU1 was nasty. With the i7s even if they didn't make the deadline for -bigadv anymore (and they do) it still folds. When they killed GPU1 people has hundreds of dollars of equipment that would do nothing.

If its beta, its all on you.
 
Vaulter98c said:
but remember, bigadv was designed for server class units, 8-64 core rigs. It just happened to be that ther was HT on the i7's and with a sizeable OC you could hit the minimum server req's

If the i7 had been an OC dud then bigadv would still be in the server realm where it was inteded for
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Well, yes and no. I'm in partial agreement here. Once an authority changes the rules of engagement, I believe it is honor bound to maintain the new paradigm. -bigadv was for enterprise hardware originally, it was exclusive and only a few could run it. That has changed since the start of last fall. It is no longer meant solely for the enterprise. It's a historical fact, yes, but not the current state of affairs.

Also, we spend the bucks to keep our points higher than other people (in theory). So what if we loose 20k ppd, everyone else we compete against does too, so in all fairness, the race between eachother and even teams wont be affected, they will just lower the scale so each point kinda gets its value back.

I'm gonna be racing to catch musky here soon. If things stay the way they are now, we'll both be over 100k in a month
If they change the value, we'll still be neck and neck production wise just the values will be less, you see what I mean?
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Yes, I totally understand and agree with the relativity aspect of the points races. No arguments. It only becomes a major issue for those that have systems that cannot run -bigadv anymore because they're no longer eligible for the new bonuses. It's these people I am mainly referring to. So, the question that remains is the number of people that fall under that category. If there aren't many who run marginal systems, then it isn't a major issue relatively speaking and the whole debate is moot.
 
Vaulter98c said:
also, were not here for the points
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It's not that I'm saying "we fold for the pts", but when the whole thing gets somewhat competitive, our team is #1, we're trying to fend off #2, we pay more to help pad the gap, etc. it's hard to act like everything's kosher and we just roll over. I voice my displeasure loud and clear. ;) I still fold for the cause first and foremost, but the lower amount of points is going to make the competitive aspect take a hit especially for our sake.

Until Windows is free (which will never happen) I can understand musky's POV. People running free *nix are going to get screwed if they don't already own Windows licenses. They either upgrade/pay or they stay put and lose even more pts than the rest of us. Stanford/Pande are their own entities, they don't answer to anyone, but a little more forethought into this would have been welcome is all I'm saying. :(
 
I'm not trying to insult y'all, I know were more than a points team

but in the nature of competition I just want to point out that the hit is even across the board, they'll feel it just as much as we will, so all our efforts to slow the steam roller down are still working, the times should stat about the same, just the points gap will look different

although they are losing people left and right, and it would seem based off the rate all other teams are losing production that we are one o the few Very diversified teams. As these clients are coming out and ""hurting"" large user bases, we are one of the teams that's staying stable because we are so spread out. It may help us a bit lol
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Im thinking most of us need to vent our frustrations over changes we dont like. where better than here its not like anyone outside the folding community understands. I cant tell you how many times i have explained to people why i have 3 computers sitting at one desk only to get the strangest looks. or the time one of the kids called the police when the ex and myself where having woopy and thought i was hibeeting up there mother. and the police where only interested in why i had 15 computers in one room.
 
Lol, no biggie man, we all need to bitch, and were all here for each other. The bond in our team is tight, something special, hard to find
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I know what you mean by no one else gets it tho, it's akward trying to explain to people what a server rack is and why I have one.
 
lehmann said:
Im thinking most of us need to vent our frustrations over changes we dont like. where better than here its not like anyone outside the folding community understands. I cant tell you how many times i have explained to people why i have 3 computers sitting at one desk only to get the strangest looks. or the time one of the kids called the police when the ex and myself where having woopy and thought i was hibeeting up there mother. and the police where only interested in why i had 15 computers in one room.
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lol should of been in my house when we had our family christmas get together.. had my door closed to my room.. little cousin opens it and my aunt looks in there sees 3 monitors and 5 computers sitting at my desk running and she looks at me and goes wtf do you need all those computers for.. i just stood there and said you wouldnt understand so im not going to bother telling you and slammed the door closed.. so i spent the rest of the day listening to my aunt talk to everyone in my family about me having all those computers like i was suppose to be some computer hacker or some shit and i just sat there laughing..
 
I can live with the Windows thing. It sucks for me, but judging from the pecentage of people running Windows versus *nix on their boxen, optimizing Windows should be #1 on Stanford's priority list. If it means I need to buy Windows licenses to try to keep up, then that becomes my choice.

What I don't get is why Stanford would even consider points readjustments. Look at it this way. I have an I7 system that cost around $600 and costs $25 or so per month to run. It gets me 25K ppd +/-. I am happy with that, so I run it 24/7. Since I run it 24/7, Stanford gets 12 or so bigadv work units from it each month, which is good for the project. The 750K point Stanford gives me each month does not cost them anything. Why do they want to mess with this? These results are obviously valuable to the project. It seems like a win - win situation to me.

I have absolutely no problem with a hex core I7 at similar speed getting double the production or with dual quads getting 4x the production or dual hex core getting 6x or more production. That is the benifit of having cutting edge technology. It also means that I can start upgrading my 4 cores to hex cores if I wanted to. What I do have a problem with is needing to upgrade everything just to maintain my current production. That is just ridiculous on Stanford's part.

Yes, I realize this affects everyone the same and that it doesn't change any of the competitions. That is not the point. The point is that Stanford is now telling me that my contribution to the project is not worth what it was last month. That is not the way to keep people interested in your project in my opinion.

Alright, I am done ranting. Disagree if you want, i don't really care. I am the one with access to the power switches on my now less useful I7 machines.
 
Windows licenses shouldn't be too much of a problem, used vista 64 bit licenses can be found for ~$50, it's cheap unless you have a lot of systems. :eek:

A3 looks awfully linear (actually these numbers don't make sense):
2x8356 = 15k
4x8356 = 28k
 
musky said:
I can live with the Windows thing. It sucks for me, but judging from the pecentage of people running Windows versus *nix on their boxen, optimizing Windows should be #1 on Stanford's priority list. If it means I need to buy Windows licenses to try to keep up, then that becomes my choice.

What I don't get is why Stanford would even consider points readjustments. Look at it this way. I have an I7 system that cost around $600 and costs $25 or so per month to run. It gets me 25K ppd +/-. I am happy with that, so I run it 24/7. Since I run it 24/7, Stanford gets 12 or so bigadv work units from it each month, which is good for the project. The 750K point Stanford gives me each month does not cost them anything. Why do they want to mess with this? These results are obviously valuable to the project. It seems like a win - win situation to me.

I have absolutely no problem with a hex core I7 at similar speed getting double the production or with dual quads getting 4x the production or dual hex core getting 6x or more production. That is the benifit of having cutting edge technology. It also means that I can start upgrading my 4 cores to hex cores if I wanted to. What I do have a problem with is needing to upgrade everything just to maintain my current production. That is just ridiculous on Stanford's part.

Yes, I realize this affects everyone the same and that it doesn't change any of the competitions. That is not the point. The point is that Stanford is now telling me that my contribution to the project is not worth what it was last month. That is not the way to keep people interested in your project in my opinion.

Alright, I am done ranting. Disagree if you want, i don't really care. I am the one with access to the power switches on my now less useful I7 machines.
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i completely disagree with everything... err wait no i dont.. :p lol
 
Vaulter I know you weren't trying to insult or anything, I didn't see it that way. Just wanted to share my view/gripe. :) No biggie, we're all in this together. ;) No harm done, no harm meant.
 
You make good point musky.....

It will be interesting to see if stanford does do a readjust.
 
No musky, don't leave, you are a valuable asset to this team (and a goal for one folder to catch lol)

I get where your coming from, I'd hate to see you go tho, we've already lost too many common names around here
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