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[Deleted member 104402]

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[bastage]

I am confident it will eventually die out.. I Do not anticipate it being for alot more years though & I Dont think BTX will be next big thing though.. I Anticipate that when ATX Goes kaput the biggest boards outside of server/industrial shit will be No larger then current mITX boards.

 

[Activate: AMD]

I doubt that very much. The reason ATX has been so strong even in the face of smaller mATX and mini-ITX is that it offers a balance between expandability and small size. With people using SLI/CF regularly now, smaller board sizes just don't have enough physical space for the necessary expansion slots. without an extremely compelling reason to switch form factors (like an exponential shrinking of the sheer physical size of GPU boards), I don't see ATX sized boards going anywhere for a long time.

 

[bastage]

I doubt that very much. The reason ATX has been so strong even in the face of smaller mATX and mini-ITX is that it offers a balance between expandability and small size. With people using SLI/CF regularly now, smaller board sizes just don't have enough physical space for the necessary expansion slots. without an extremely compelling reason to switch form factors (like an exponential shrinking of the sheer physical size of GPU boards), I don't see ATX sized boards going anywhere for a long time.

I Didnt say this was going to happen next month or anything.. but everything is getting smaller & more efficient. So there will eventually come a point where you no longer need the physical space for the performance necessary..

Also I dont believe ATX is holding strong in the face of the smaller FF's.. I believe ATX is loosing ground every generation.. Think back a couple generations & if you wanted a basic mATX board you had to work to find one. Where as now you have to work to find a basic ATX board. As more gets integrated onto the motherboard there is no need for the expansion slots. As it is right now most people only have video cards in them now. & even CFX & SLI (2 way) fit fine in a mATX board.

 

[Rokodo]

Small form factors = no dual GPU.

I don't care what the CPU manufacturers say, an AGP unit cannot compare to a seperate CPU/GPU setup. ^_^

ATX is here to stay... unless there is a significant change in how we define a "computer" in terms of architecture.
Light ray processing, anyone?

 

[Phyltre]

There is exactly one thing that will bring average motherboard size down:

Reducing the necessary size of the expansion connectors. If we can squish down a PCI Express 2.1 slot into a connector like a USB3 cable, then absolutely performance motherboard sizes will shrink. And I think that would be a great direction for the industry to move in, if it's possible. The way expansion slots work now is a bit archaic, like cartridge-based processors.

 

[plugwash]

will the ATX form factor eventually die completely and get replaced with BTX? how many more years do we have with ATX?

BTX combined some good ideas (primerally swapping the system round so that cards faced upwards and in particular the graphics card faced away from the other cards) with some ideas that seemed good at the time but caused problems down the road. In particular fixing the location of the CPU allowed for more integrated cooling (good) but caused problems with CPUs with integrated memory controllers (bad).

Some of the big OEMs adopted it or propietry variants of it but I doubt it will ever take off in the build your own/whitebox market. Especially as CPU power consumption has largely stabalised.

Barring a radical change in the way expansion cards are done (maybe a change to something cable based) I would expect the current situation of various sized boards based on the same basic ATX layout to remain for a while at least.

One thing I do wonder is if/when the standard size for a low end board will change from micro-atx to something smaller. Right now you generally pay a premium for mini-itx and get far less choice than with micro-atx. The form factors in between micro-atx and mini-itx seem to get even less attention.

 

[4LC4PON3]

Small form factors = no dual GPU.

I don't care what the CPU manufacturers say, an AGP unit cannot compare to a seperate CPU/GPU setup. ^_^

ATX is here to stay... unless there is a significant change in how we define a "computer" in terms of architecture.
Light ray processing, anyone?

That is False they do have mATX board with Crossfire support

 

[bastage]

Small form factors = no dual GPU.

I don't care what the CPU manufacturers say, an AGP unit cannot compare to a seperate CPU/GPU setup. ^_^

ATX is here to stay... unless there is a significant change in how we define a "computer" in terms of architecture.
Light ray processing, anyone?

There will come a point where dual GPU want to necessary.. hell a discrete graphics card wont be necessary (even for gaming).. As die shrinks happen & code gets more efficient its only logical to believe that the size will change & get smaller.

Think of it like this.. Graphics technology will keep getting better & it will climax when everything reaches the limits of the human eye.. Until then Graphics cards aren't likely to get much smaller.. But once that happens the functionality for it will eventually end up integrated onto the CPU which by that point should be very very small & very very fast.. At the point this becomes reality most likely the largest part of a computer will be the io ports as technology evolves alot faster then humans do so its not likely we will see any super duper shrinkages there or people just wouldn't be able to do it (or wouldn't want to anyway)..

This is all at this point of course nothing more then the opinion of a geek thats watched too many scifi flicks to count.. But the OP said nothing about a time frame so its all open to interpretation..

 

[Ducman69]

That is False they do have mATX board with Crossfire support

Not to mention that dual-GPU single cards are quite mainstream now.

I have a 4870x2 in my small form factor shoebox.

And with 2TB cheap drives, and 3TB drives available, you really don't need more than two drives in most computers, and perhaps a tiny SSD for a boot drive that is so small you can slap it anywhere. Heck, I just used foam sticky tape for my boot drive, lol! So an old school tall tower is unnecessary w/ modern equipment.

So why do people still buy ATX boards? I guess its something I just won't "get", like chubby chasers and people that ride scooters or vote democrat, different strokes for different folks, but I'll stick w/ my mATX, skinny thais, and motorcycle thank you.

 

[4LC4PON3]

I am a HUGE fan of Micro ATX boards I have hardly ever owned a Full ATX at least until now since my new build is ATX. For some reason I just love how my Corsair A70 takes up my entire mATX board & to be honest with you I almost canceled my order just because it was Full ATX

 

[Deleted member 88227]

I wonder if their will be a time soon that we'll start seeing "multi core" GPUs.

 

[TheSpoon]

A GTX 580 has 512 cores.

 

[nalc]

will the ATX form factor eventually die completely and get replaced with BTX? how many more years do we have with ATX?

BTX is dead. It worked nice for some 775 machines because of the orientation of the CPU made the traces for the memory work better, or something like that. It was 'supposed' to kill ATX about six years ago, and it didn't. Did they even make BTX boards for any AMD chip, or for Core 2 Duo and newer Intel? The only BTX board I have is a Dell with a Pentium D 820 from my girlfriend's parents' broken PC. As others have said, I expect microATX to become even more and more popular. People want compact computers. Only a small fraction of gamers use multi-GPU setups, and gamers are only a small fraction of computer users. The vast majority are fine with integrated graphics (which are more common on mATX boards anyway), and the ones that don't are usually running a single-GPU setup. There's a whole bunch of people that don't have 30" LCDs or triple monitors or don't need to run brand new games at extreme quality settings.

I would not be surprised to see basic ATX boards die. The days of the 775 ATX boards that have a single PCIe x16 slot and like three PCIe x1 and three PCI slots are gone. ATX will certainly continue as an enthusiast board, for the multi-GPU flexibility mentioned earlier, as well as more room for coolers and that kind of stuff.

I think the current market is already starting to indicate it, with the P67 and H67 chipsets. I don't recall seeing any P67 mATX boards yet, and every P67 mobo is crossfire capable and most are SLI capable, so it's confirming ATX's spot for being the enthusiast/overclocker/gamer form factor, with H67 being more commonly mATX and not allowing overclocking or multi-GPU.

We've already seen several years of mATX being the primary form factor among pre-built computers. Just about every HP or Dell I've seen has been mATX. The only full-ATX pre-builts are the expensive ones targeted at enthusiasts.

I wonder if their will be a time soon that we'll start seeing "multi core" GPUs.

No. GPUs don't work the same as CPUs.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1580151

 

[Deleted member 88227]

I'm thinking more along the lines of having two physical GPUs built into one. Even if it's two GPUs per board and/or they put them in the same "chip".

Kind of like how 3DFX did that 4 GPU graphics card back in like 2001 or so, can't think of the name 5500 comes to mind. Instead of having 4 individual GPUs, why not make them into "one" processor unit. Basically having SLI on the same BOARD.

edit
After reading the rest of that thread, its the Voodoo 5 6000 I was thinking of. haha

 

[nalc]

I'm thinking more along the lines of having two physical GPUs built into one. Even if it's two GPUs per board and/or they put them in the same "chip".

Two GPUs on the same board, we already have. GTX295, HD4850X2, HD4870X2, and HD5970.

Two separate GPUs on the same die, there's no point to do that, because you could just add cores. For instance, the Radeon HD 5xxx series vary from 80 to 1600 cores. Depending on your point of view, you could say that the HD 5870 is two HD 5770s. The former is a 334mm^2 die with 1600 shaders, the latter is a 170mm^2 die with 800 shaders. Half the die size, half the cores.

The reason that the HD 5970 is two 334mm^2 dies with 1600 shaders each instead of a single ~670mm^2 die with 3200 shaders is due to the manufacturing process. There are lots of cost issues associated with increasing the die size, as well as a decreasing yield. Obviously, AMD engineers felt that increasing the die size above ~334mm^2 was not a cost-effective decision, and obviously they felt that for a card with two dies, the cooling, memory, and power layout was improved by making a physical separation of the two dies, rather than making them right next to each other.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Well technically they aren't on the same board, they are two boards sandwiched together, right? Just like the 9800GX2.

 

[Ducman69]

Moot either way, as long as it takes up the space of a single GPU. But my 4870x2 is on one long board:
http://www.sytech.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/4870x2naked.jpg

 

[War Zone]

Sorry im part of the bigger is better camp.
I think we all need to start seeing more E-atx bords .

Heat sinks keep taking up more and more space and i like being able to add more stuff to my computer as time gos on .
Mini sized anything really doesn't do much for me unless i want something small for lan gaming that i can pop in a backpack something like xbox 360 size but for my main rig bigger is better in my book

you can keep your mini sized computers

48 cores 12 cores per cpu .sick i want one

 

[bastage]

Sorry im part of the bigger is better camp.
I think we all need to start seeing more E-atx bords .

Heat sinks keep taking up more and more space and i like being able to add more stuff to my computer as time gos on .
Mini sized anything really doesn't do much for me unless i want something small for lan gaming that i can pop in a backpack something like xbox 360 size but for my main rig bigger is better in my book

you can keep your mini sized computers

48 cores 12 cores per cpu .sick i want one

This makes me lol.. I Used to be like this, but then I realised I can get more into a mITX then I actually need. & Then it takes up Very Very little Desk Space, & Is a whole lot sexier then the hodge podge of random cases I used to have (looked alot like the one quoted)

 

[4LC4PON3]

Yuck.. Atleast if your going "The bigger the better way" do it with some style

 

[Drexl]

I doubt that very much. The reason ATX has been so strong even in the face of smaller mATX and mini-ITX is that it offers a balance between expandability and small size. With people using SLI/CF regularly now, smaller board sizes just don't have enough physical space for the necessary expansion slots. without an extremely compelling reason to switch form factors (like an exponential shrinking of the sheer physical size of GPU boards), I don't see ATX sized boards going anywhere for a long time.

Not to mention, some of us still use a sound card, and may want a slot or two for something like wi-fi or a TV tuner card. And maybe it's just me, but I'd be nervous about cramming two video cards on a micro ATX board since they'd be practically touching each other. I would want a little space in between for airflow.

I realize you can do a lot with a micro board, but I wouldn't want to get one just for the sake of making the case smaller. I don't care much about the size unless it's a portable device. And the thing is, ATX is just an option. If you want a smaller board, you're free to get one. There's no need to make them all smaller because some people don't need the larger size.

 

[Whatsisname]

ATX will stick around for a long time. There will always be a significant market where people don't really care how big the computer is and would much rather pay to have something cheap thats big than expensive and small.

 

[War Zone]

This is very true Sir and agreed.

But man with cpu heat sinks being the size that they are then chip-set
north&south bridge heat sinks getting jumbo and bigger all the time + add a video card that try's to take over 2 slots meaning the 3rd slot not really usable anymore and well you know :\
You all most can't see the mobo under all that junk if were talking mini-atx

Guess its all a mater of what you want your computer to do.

And btw if you want to watch a episode of Junkyard wars computer edition come over to my place *winks*

 

[J Macker]

^^^

wtf? out of nowhere? junkyard wars? who cares?

 

[Activate: AMD]

Not to mention, some of us still use a sound card, and may want a slot or two for something like wi-fi or a TV tuner card. And maybe it's just me, but I'd be nervous about cramming two video cards on a micro ATX board since they'd be practically touching each other. I would want a little space in between for airflow.

I realize you can do a lot with a micro board, but I wouldn't want to get one just for the sake of making the case smaller. I don't care much about the size unless it's a portable device. And the thing is, ATX is just an option. If you want a smaller board, you're free to get one. There's no need to make them all smaller because some people don't need the larger size.

true, just because you CAN cram two full size GPUs on a mATX board doesn't mean you should. If you want [H]ardware you still need an ATX because thats where the high-end market is. Many mATX boards don't have the same level of build quality in terms of power phases or bios customization becuase they're not targeted at the high end. If I'm building some little econobox for my mom, or an HTPC, i'll go with a mATX or even mini-ITX board, but when it comes to real overclocking hardware, go big or go home.. its the only way to get everything you want and need.

 

[Ducman69]

This makes me lol.. I Used to be like this, but then I realised I can get more into a mITX then I actually need. & Then it takes up Very Very little Desk Space, & Is a whole lot sexier then the hodge podge of random cases I used to have (looked alot like the one quoted)

Oh yeah? Where are you going to fit your two floppy drives?

Seriously... what the heck??? Planned obsolescence War Zone.

BTW, for average home computing use and gaming, those multi-CPU boards are actually quite horrible.

Many mATX boards don't have the same level of build quality in terms of power phases or bios customization becuase they're not targeted at the high end.

Thats true, many don't, but some do, and you only need one. My processor is considerably overclocked w/ a 4870x2 in my small form factor system, and that thing is huge. It has a BluRay player that can also do DVDs, and fits two 2TB harddrives and a SSD. Plenty. And its attractive and fits on a bookshelf under the table.

 

[bastage]

Oh yeah? Where are you going to fit your two floppy drives?

Seriously... what the heck??? Planned obsolescence War Zone.

Ya know thats funny.. I want looking for a military style jacket today so I hopped around to 4 different thrift stores & I actually almost bought an external Toshiba floppy drive I saw at goodwill.

 

[zchen]

There has been more enthusiast oriented mATX boards in the past few years (Asus Rampage Gene and Maximus Gene series, DFI Lan Party Jr etc.) I can't wait to do a new mATX sandy bridge build and move my 900 case else where.....