a

[Raz1r]

a

 

[EvilAlchemist]

Yes, It is worth it.

I just built two ATI GPU Systems

One with 4x ATI 4850s another with 3 x ATI 4850s (Will be 4x in 2 weeks)

 

[AMD_Gamer]

they just had an unstable client, i was having nonstop problems but when i replaced with the new core everything has been folding great.

 

[Kendrak]

I have a 6 GPU boxen in the basement, I forget it is down there sometimes.

The longest I went with out even VNC-ing into the box was 3 weeks.

 

[jws2346]

I've recently been seeing more and more talk about unstable clients, problems uploading data to servers etc. with the F@H project.
/snip
Sorry for the wall of text, I'm just trying to make sure my $400-$700 purchase will be worth it.

Yikes

I can see where reading some of the posts on this forum could be quite confusing and depressing. They could leave you with more questions than you started out with. I'm quilty of some confusing and depressing posts myself . You have to remember this is the forum for the #1 folding team in the Universe and this forum is a "clearing house" of the trials and tribulations" concerning DC projects and Stanfords F@H project in particular. We have members that are very knowledgeable about F@H and WCG and they will unselfishly share their knowledge and insights with you in a manner that doesn't come across as insulting your intelligence. (unlike some other F@H forums I can think of, the official F@H forum for example ) IMHO we have some of the most brilliant "old timers" of any DC forum.

While I can honestly say I've had some problems with the Stanford F@H WinSMP clients and some of their newer WU's, but it introduced me to USC's WCG program and I'm quite impressed with the project. It seems using the WinSMP et al (WU's, clients, etc) just requires too much time baby sitting and rebooting my boxen to get the results I want.

You have to remember Stanford has nVIDIA and ATI graphics advisors helping them with the GPU2 project. So IMO any investment in the GPU arena would be a good investment. From what I understand, the CPU and memory investments bring back some of the less expensive componets and it seems the price of folding capable GPU cards is comming way down (ie Ebay has a eVGA 9600GSO for like $50 bucks ) . I think many people have invested USD $400 to $700 dollars in GPU boxen. IMO there's no way they're mistaken, especially some of our more experienced folders and the "old timers".

It just seems to me that F@H and WCG are constantly evolving programs. So only God knows (and he/she ain't tellin') what will be better tomorrow.

I appologize for another "marathon" post

Just my $0.02 cents worth, I honestly hope it helped out a little.

Folding and WCGing for the CURE

 

[Xilikon]

While it's true we are seeing a lot of disillusionment posts around, the project is running great overall. Let me show the current status of each project part :

-Uniprocessor clients works great as usual, no problem to report.
-SMP clients working well, especially with 6.23. Servers for SMP is running well.
-GPU clients is getting thru some problems right now as people noted but the 1.19 core solved part of them and I think they pulled back the big protetins until they get a new core which can crunch those without issues.
-PS3 now works well, the past issues seems to be solved.

As for servers, I believe it's now settled partially with one or two servers getting hung occasionnally but they are also becoming good at putting them back in action quickly (I even saw Vijay getting up at 6:00 AM sunday morning post to report the server is rebooted, which show some dedication).

Just to show that I'm feeling they improved a lot since september when I'm really frustrated a lot toward them, I'm bringing a boxen online soon (a GPU boxen for only 150$ total including a 8800GS) and started the PS3 back. Also, since I wrote a email to Vijay explaining my frustration, he seems to have understood and is now listening more to donors, especially beta testers (in the past, he decide to make projects/cores public without asking us if it's a good idea with disastrous results as we saw a few times).

Some problems like the ATI and NVIDIA issues is a bit hard to get fixed overnight but we can testify that they are working hard on this goal, ask EA about that.

 

[BillR]

While it's true we are seeing a lot of disillusionment posts around, the project is running great overall. Let me show the current status of each project part :

-Uniprocessor clients works great as usual, no problem to report.
-SMP clients working well, especially with 6.23. Servers for SMP is running well.
-GPU clients is getting thru some problems right now as people noted but the 1.19 core solved part of them and I think they pulled back the big protetins until they get a new core which can crunch those without issues.
-PS3 now works well, the past issues seems to be solved.

As for servers, I believe it's now settled partially with one or two servers getting hung occasionnally but they are also becoming good at putting them back in action quickly (I even saw Vijay getting up at 6:00 AM sunday morning post to report the server is rebooted, which show some dedication).

Just to show that I'm feeling they improved a lot since september when I'm really frustrated a lot toward them, I'm bringing a boxen online soon (a GPU boxen for only 150$ total including a 8800GS) and started the PS3 back. Also, since I wrote a email to Vijay explaining my frustration, he seems to have understood and is now listening more to donors, especially beta testers (in the past, he decide to make projects/cores public without asking us if it's a good idea with disastrous results as we saw a few times).

Some problems like the ATI and NVIDIA issues is a bit hard to get fixed overnight but we can testify that they are working hard on this goal, ask EA about that.

A quick rule of thumb that is pretty reliable.

If you see me bitching out loud and calling Stanford all sorts of names, something is wrong.

If you see me and Xilikon both bitching out loud and calling Stanford all sorts of names, something is really wrong.

That said, I doubt you will see either of us pack up shop, there is too much at stake

 

[EvilAlchemist]

Some problems like the ATI and NVIDIA issues is a bit hard to get fixed overnight but we can testify that they are working hard on this goal, ask EA about that.

AMEN ......

TestING take a lot out OF me sometimes.
One reason I go days without posting ... way too much typing

 

[MrBooMY]

They didn't pull back the big protiens. I've crunched a few today, and at least 27 since they released them.

 

[jws2346]

In all honesty reading posts from BillR, Xilikon and other team 33 members that participate in this forum are some of the biggest reasons I enjoy reading and asking questions (sometimes we're lucky and get visits from other teams, but mostly team 33) . IMO the [H]orde team 33 has some of the most knowledgeable, experienced, and involved DC'ers in any of the DC type programs and this forum is our outlet for current information about DC'ing and Stanfords F@H project in general..

While I'll admit I did kind of give up on the F@H WinSMP clients because of all the hassles.(unstable clients, unstable WU's, etc) and IMO it became too time consuming to deal with (baby sitting my boxen,reboots, EUE's. etc) there's no way in hell I'd stop trying to help the medical community with my hobby of computers. I feel fortunate to have found the WCG project and thanks to people like nomad8u and others on this forum I've learned quite a bit about both WCG and F@H.

I'll probably always in some shape or form be involved in Stanfords F@H project. ATM I'm pretty tied up with the GPU2 clients and I'm anxious to see when the smoke clears who has the best PpD between the bellmouths of GPU vga cards, nVIDIA and ATI.

Thanks everybody, whether you be male, female, inbetween, martiian or whatever, thanks for folding for the geatest folding team in the whole freakin' Universe. That team is the mighty [H]orde

Folding and WCGing for the CURE

 

[sirmonkey1985]

just thought id add.. since no one answered your second question about WCG.. WCG is a cpu only boinc client.. they do not have gpu support yet.. though i doubt it will ever come.. so if your into gpu folding.. FAH the the way to go..

 

[Jon855]

just thought id add.. since no one answered your second question about WCG.. WCG is a cpu only boinc client.. they do not have gpu support yet.. though i doubt it will ever come.. so if your into gpu folding.. FAH the the way to go..

I respectfully disagree and agree.

For CPU - WCG is the way to go (seems to be quite stable for most part over F@H) and has more projects

For GPU - F@H is obviously the only way to go.

 

[Xilikon]

They didn't pull back the big protiens. I've crunched a few today, and at least 27 since they released them.

Oh, I thought they were gone since I never saw my clients cruncing for a few days. It's not surprising since it's probably they put those units available but with a very low weight so those get distributed only if other servers is having issues so nobody is out of work. Vincent already mentionned the fact that those are low weight units since it's not rock stable yet (only the GTX 2xx cards were able to crunch all of them without failure).

As for BillR remark, it's accurate and I'm someone who are very patient usually. If I get pissed at them, something is very very wrong indeed but my latest kick in the ass seems to have worked.

 

[MrBooMY]

I haven't had any of my cards fail to crunch any of the big units. I have a mixture of cards. A couple 8800 GTS 640s G90s, one 8800 GTS 512 G92, a few 9600 GSOs, and a couple 8800 GSs. None have failed to crunch the bigger units.

 

[jws2346]

Just off the wall, I missed you're question about using video cards for some kind of distributed computing and I wholeheartedly appologise. . I immediatly figured you were getting a little "bummed" out with some of the more critical posts on Stanfords F@H project or some not so kind things posted about Vjay

The only other distributed computing program I know that uses "CUDA" capable cards in windose is the program URL below:

http://www.gpugrid.net/join.php?sys=gpu

I've never tried it so I can't give any critique on it. Maybe someone on the forum knows something about it. I think the previous posters are correct, as it stands right now Stanfords F@H is the best, but you know the rapid pace of IT I've even heard of a straight GPU Linux client, but all I've been able to research is a windose client running under Wine. (you can do that with GPU2)

Folding and WCGing for the CURE

 

[Pogo]

I think the only thing besides client issues, is that of curiosity. Like why hasn't stanford released something built into the clients that can keep track of points per day and which units like external 3rd party applications do. A simple homepage that will throw down the results from your folding. Then we could put that into use at hardfolding.com and keep track via our incredible user pages that have been created for us. Hardfolding.com has been a great tracking system, if it could include this extra data, I think I would be less upset!

 

[Jon855]

if it could include this extra data, I think I would be less upset!

DATA WHORE

 

[Xilikon]

I think the only thing besides client issues, is that of curiosity. Like why hasn't stanford released something built into the clients that can keep track of points per day and which units like external 3rd party applications do. A simple homepage that will throw down the results from your folding. Then we could put that into use at hardfolding.com and keep track via our incredible user pages that have been created for us. Hardfolding.com has been a great tracking system, if it could include this extra data, I think I would be less upset!

I can understand this and it's indeed a good idea. However, remember that the F@H staff is not really into Computer Sciences (only 1-2 as support) so those features will be very low in the priority list. What matter for them is to have clients which can provide them the science they need to satisfy the daily crave for proteins folding.

 

[arcturus]

Folding is a walk in the park compared to the issues they've got with all the various Boinc projects.

 

[Pogo]

DATA WHORE

i like my numbers binary, folded, and HAWT

 

[relic]

I've been folding through two forum reloads and half a dozen years. Believe me, that's a long time to put up with BillR.

Sometimes it's tough to fold, well...most times it tough, but it's what we do.

Currently the WCG CPU client seems more stable that the f@h SMP but that could change tomorrow.

I run WCG CPU and F@H GPU.

Since folding is the team's primary focus, I try to support that project as much as possible. We bitch and moan, but we still fold.

 

[nomad8u]

Occasionally disillusioned or not, everyone I've interacted with on this team are pretty hard-core committed to what we're doing here. Sometimes it's not so easy but that's part of the deal. Some of the clients we run are pretty cutting edge stuff. They won't always run smoothly... it's the nature of the beast.

Bitching and moaning and asking and answering are what we do here. It's a big part of what makes us a team. If you can't complain to, seek advice from and generally ask questions amongst your friends, then who can you go to and why do you do this? That's the beauty of this forum and this team. You can get help here. You can share your problems here. You can celebrate your successes here. THAT'S what makes this a great team, a really fun family and forum to be a part of.

Yep.. I think multi-GPU setups are well worthwhile. I think the F@H project as a whole is very worthwhile project and I think WCG is a great project as well. From a personal standpoint, I'm currently pushing the majority of my resources at the WCG project until I hit a personal goal I've set to help push that team to a certain milestone. Then I'm going to divide up my resources between the two projects (WCG/F@H) and crunch away.

Either project is going to have challenges along the way. Both (IMHO) are worth the time, effort, agg and grief. Which flavor of pain you choose is strictly a personal choice. With either one, you'll always find someone here willing to lend you a hand if you need... That's why we're a team.

 

[FLECOM]

i stopped folding for the most part becasue stanford told me (in not so many words) your contributions dont matter, and we are not going to fix it... so i told vijay to go pound sand...

im trying to run WCG on a few machines but i doubt i will ever do anything like my 800 cpu borg becuase keeping all my console clients working was taking up at least 4 hours per day... and then i have one GPU doing as much work as 200 computers? screw that... then they cant get any software to work right or come out of beta, making trying to run the GPU client incredibly frustrating so i gave up on that too...

meh

 

[BillR]

i stopped folding for the most part becasue stanford told me (in not so many words) your contributions dont matter, and we are not going to fix it... so i told vijay to go pound sand...

im trying to run WCG on a few machines but i doubt i will ever do anything like my 800 cpu borg becuase keeping all my console clients working was taking up at least 4 hours per day... and then i have one GPU doing as much work as 200 computers? screw that... then they cant get any software to work right or come out of beta, making trying to run the GPU client incredibly frustrating so i gave up on that too...

meh

I have always been sort of shocked at this sort of attitude.

Here we hand the man one of the largest Super Computers in the world, for free no less and he continues with his entitlement mentality. It’s not like we even looked for a thank you or recognition.

It is starting to look like Quads will soon be joining the pile of folding fodder and frankly, based on history I have to think one day sooner or later we will see thousands of “spare” video cards for sale cheap.

For a guy who relies on everyone else’s money he does have a bit of a caviler attitude.

 

[FLECOM]

I have always been sort of shocked at this sort of attitude.

Here we hand the man one of the largest Super Computers in the world, for free no less and he continues with his entitlement mentality. It’s not like we even looked for a thank you or recognition.

It is starting to look like Quads will soon be joining the pile of folding fodder and frankly, based on history I have to think one day sooner or later we will see thousands of “spare” video cards for sale cheap.

For a guy who relies on everyone else’s money he does have a bit of a caviler attitude.

exactly... i dont want a pat on the back or a trophy... i just want to know that my contribution is worth something, and if its not, then fine, i will just go away... to say that they are, but not have the numbers reflect it, dosent work...

so i put my money where my mouth is and left... did i want to leave F@H? hell no, after all the work i did? you have no idea how much i really had to consider having my ghost console recall my F@H package from all my workstations?...

but i still want to DC because i still have access to a lot of processors so im working on a way of deploying WCG but its not very easy... but im still working on it on my downtime...

that being said, vijay and his jerking around of his users is mindboggling... i saw people run out and buy x1x00 series ati cards to rush and run the GPU1 client, then its misrible failure... then the PS3 putting out incredible numbers that quickly got shadowed by the insane numbers coming out of the GPU2 client... so i cant wait till stanford and nvidia have a lovers spat and the gpu client gets discontinued or broken...

 

[oraldlight]

What twist of fate would it be for Vijay to suffer from some ailment that we (the providors of "free" comuptation) held the answer too. I don't wish this upon him, but it would be great karma...

 

[FLECOM]

no, i dont care how much of a douche he is i wouldent wish him any kind of "incurable" disease

...maybe crabs or something LOL

 

[relic]

no, i dont care how much of a douche he is i wouldent wish him any kind of "incurable" disease

...maybe crabs or something LOL

I would think we might wish for testicular cancer....we really don't want that particular bloodline to continue.

 

[BillR]

no, i dont care how much of a douche he is i wouldent wish him any kind of "incurable" disease

...maybe crabs or something LOL

You do know the cure for Crabs, right? Pour lighter fluid over the affected area, light it, and then stab the little buggers as they scramble out

 

[FLECOM]

You do know the cure for Crabs, right? Pour lighter fluid over the affected area, light it, and then stab the little buggers as they scramble out

thank you for the inevitable nightmares i will be having tonight

 

[Kendrak]

You do know the cure for Crabs, right? Pour lighter fluid over the affected area, light it, and then stab the little buggers as they scramble out

That must be a variation on the: Cover infected area in duck tape and super glue and then remove after 2 hours. All the little buggers will be stuck to the tape

 

[marty9876]

I'll be the last guy here to defend Stanford on much of anything but... I personally feel their biggest mistake to date has been improving the product. Think about it, customer support aside which sucks, the core problem is the stupid clients keep getting better and better (better defined here as more technologically advanced- CPU>SMP>GPU1>GPU2 etc.).

Stanfford has basically made their previous products completely obsolete.

This is a impossibly dangerous position for any company to put themselves in yet Standford has done it over and over. Victem of their own sucess so to speak.

Yea, a monkey and a dead cat could have handled the transitions better. The inflation of point value is simple insane and not logical in any methodology- execpt for Moore's law (that the right guy?).

And yea, having a client which actually works would be a bonus too.

It's hard to bitch about Bonic/WCG because it does not really change right? CPU clients and off they go. Yea, no server errors or botched installs but it's the same old same old. Stanford is on the bleeding edge, they just handle it like shit.

@ Flecom- yea, fuck'em

 

[nomad8u]

I would think we might wish for testicular cancer....

I think I just saw that as a new project coming out on WCG.... EXploring All Current Testicular abnormalities Likely to not be cured in a thousand Years .... Code Name: EXACTLY...

I started to sign up for it but MEH.... couldn't quite bring myself to check the box...

 

[FLECOM]

I'll be the last guy here to defend Stanford on much of anything but... I personally feel their biggest mistake to date has been improving the product. Think about it, customer support aside which sucks, the core problem is the stupid clients keep getting better and better (better defined here as more technologically advanced- CPU>SMP>GPU1>GPU2 etc.).

Stanfford has basically made their previous products completely obsolete.

This is a impossibly dangerous position for any company to put themselves in yet Standford has done it over and over. Victem of their own sucess so to speak.

Yea, a monkey and a dead cat could have handled the transitions better. The inflation of point value is simple insane and not logical in any methodology- execpt for Moore's law (that the right guy?).

And yea, having a client which actually works would be a bonus too.

It's hard to bitch about Bonic/WCG because it does not really change right? CPU clients and off they go. Yea, no server errors or botched installs but it's the same old same old. Stanford is on the bleeding edge, they just handle it like shit.

@ Flecom- yea, fuck'em

i think the fact that they are pushing the limits of what technology can do with their project is awesome, dont get me wrong... but when they themselves say that the work that CPU does is more useful for "the science" than GPU work (more flexable) why dont the points reflect that?

that was my question, and i was told if i didnt like it, leave, so i did

im working on getting my small farm to run WCG but they were all netbooting and there is no simple way of doing that for a linux-tard like myself lol

so im thinking booting XP (not PE) off a 2gb thumb drive with XP/WCG in each one and call it a day