A request for a hyperthreading benchmark.

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by Raghar, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

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    I wrote a small program that should test certain stuff on hyperthreaded CPUs, and I need few people who would run it.

    https://mega.co.nz/#!QJgXSTjL!berfU1KkBqBqrtTSQA1-Uh762A4yIVWgMvZYOyghkoY

    The required steps are:
    Turn off hyperthreading and run pack4C.
    Turn on hyperthreading and run pack8C.
    It create two html files, and I guess the first 10 lines in each file are important.

    If you have only two core CPU, use pack without hyperthreading, and pack4C for test with hyperthreading.


    It requires 64 bit Java. http://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  2. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Is this supposed to work on 12 threaded processors like the i7 970?
     
  3. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

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    I can modify it, but this version wouldn't have enough memory/cache conflicts to provide correct data.
     
  4. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I will see if I have time to try it on a 4core / 8 thread CPU then..
     
  5. Gunter.

    Gunter. n00b

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  6. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    I'll try this tonight when I get home from work.
     
  7. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

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    Thanks.

    Eclipse compiled and saved a version of pack4C with additional info before I copied it. So there is version of pack4C without that additional info. Can you rerun pack4C? (You might also try to run pack as a control sample.)
    https://mega.co.nz/#!QJgXSTjL!berfU1KkBqBqrtTSQA1-Uh762A4yIVWgMvZYOyghkoY

    Inside is also 6 and 12 core version for these who have more cores and feel adventurous.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  8. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    pack8c.cmd - 8 thread i7 Q740

    http://pastebin.com/2w5d2xKW

    Ahh. It looks like I can not turn HT off or at least I can not find the option in the BIOS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  9. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
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    Thanks.

    BTW it doesn't matter if you can't turn off HT in BIOS, OS should balance threads to real cores anyway. (Well, it should in theory.) Pack4C should still give some data, just not as accurate as without HT.


    Now I need only 5 more testers to get proper statistic data and to be able to remove possible flukes (caused by power management, or hidden CPU defects)

    Also I need two desktop users to run pack.cmd as well as other benchmarks to establish base to be able to do proper scaling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  10. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Core i3 2100t, 2c/4t

    pack (2 core):

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    4 core:

    Code:
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    HYPERTHREADING DISABLED:

    pack 2 core:

    Code:
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    pack 4 core:

    Code:
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    MASSSIVE slowdown on the 4 core test without hyperthreading :D
     
  11. Zefiris

    Zefiris n00b

    Messages:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    intel i7-2630qm 4c8t processor

    pack8C:
    Code:
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    Unfortunately there isn't an option that allows me to turn off HT in BIOS. Anyhow, good luck with the experiment. :)
     
  12. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    209
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Re: defaultluser

    Man that's just mean.
    As expected from Intel.

    So, when you run it two cores HT, scheduler adds both threads on a single core, because why not, when you run 4 threaded version, it works as it should.
    When you disable HT, two threaded version works as it should, but a 4 threaded version is slower on your computer than on my Wolfdale. I have 127 - 192, you have 171 - 265. What's your CPU speed?

    I might want to add AMD Vishera for comparison, just to see scaling on AMD CPUs.
     
  13. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,453
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    2.5 GHz Sandy, no turbo.
     
  14. Fort_Major

    Fort_Major Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    425
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    I hope you realize that statistics requires a far larger population than 5 before drawing any sort of conclusion.
     
  15. WolfpupNX

    WolfpupNX Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Thanks for the help in my other thread - as requested, benchies run:

    Intel 3960X @ Stock (3.3 GHz w/ Turbo to 3.9)

    Pack (HyperThreading OFF)
    Code:
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    Pack6C (Hyperthreading OFF)
    Code:
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    Hope this helps whatever you're trying to do! =oP
     
  16. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
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    Jun 23, 2012
    Actually it helped a lot, it established a nice base.

    Actually it has perfect score. You used 6 cores, and it's 3x faster than on 2 cores. Looks like non-parallelizable overhead is: 48406.8 ns. (Numbers on the left are nanoseconds, numbers on the right are hashes.)

    The small problem is games that will not check for hyperthreading will run at 0.53455692893 speed. ( 4008172/(2*3749060) ) This test also proven a hyperthreading is basically useless, because it improves things only by about 1/14 in the best case. At least it doesn't hurt on 3960X.

    Actually, statistics requires only one user per CPU type (4-core, 6-core, 2-core combined with Sandy bridge, Ivy bridge) There are no Ivy bridge 6-core CPUs, thus only 5 people. (few more are needed for verification, however number of cores is irrelevant for verification) The only trouble is the interference of power saving features in laptops benchmarks.
    Considering how Intel CPUs look so far, I'd also like to see one AMD Bulldozer, and two Visheras (at least one 6-core).
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  17. WolfpupNX

    WolfpupNX Limp Gawd

    Messages:
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    Cool and interesting. =) I keep hyperthreading enabled just because there's no real reason to disable it and I might see performance gains. Also, while folding, it allows me to fold 12 things at once instead of 6 (though there's no way to know if it actually finishes a greater number in the same timeframe).
     
  18. -Dragon-

    -Dragon- 2[H]4U

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    This whole test would seem to indicate to me that you don't really understand what hyper threading is for... It's not there to increase performance when you're running a task that's ideal at keeping a CPU pipeline 100% full at all times that can primarily run out of L1 cache and registers, it's there so that when the CPU is doing something but then has to pause the pipeline to wait for something like data from memory or the HDD the CPU can switch to a second thread internally and operate on a separate set of registers and use those CPU cycles that would otherwise be wasted waiting to do other work, without the overhead of pushing and popping to the stack or at a time that would otherwise be impossible to task switch from the view point of a single core.

    Basically you setup the worst possible conditions for HT and are probably trying to "prove" it's useless, where if you setup a different set of parameters, say a program that did a small memory read from some random place in RAM that you were sure wasn't in any of the CPU caches so it actually had to fetch RAM then did some processing on that data for the exact amount of time it took to fetch the data from RAM so the CPU spent 50% of the time waiting on data and 50% of the time processing, you'd see almost a 100% improvement from HT because while one thread was fetching from RAM the other could be processing.

    Admittedly few real tasks fit that usage pattern and more are closer to being pipeline bound like your test is, but even if the CPU averages around 20% idle CPU cycles due to IO waits and can convert 50% of them into useful cycles via HT then that's still a 10% performance gain over not having it, and the HT logic only takes up a few % of the die space (it was like 5% of the die space on the original P4's I imagine it's quite a bit less than that now), so spending a few % die space to improve average performance by quite a bit more than that is a good way to spend silicon space.
     
  19. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
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    Depending on your program is set up and how it uses data, you can get about a 20-25% speed increase over not using hyperthreading. This is with all threads maxxed out 100% of the time while running said program.

    All you are proving is that Hyperthreading is not very useful in your specific code. You are probably purposely causing all kinds of cache thrashing because you are using too large of data sets which is going to kill extra performance that can be had from Hyperthreading.

    If you change your data set so that the size is adjustable by the user so that they can set it up for each thread to be able to fit the needed data in cachem you will see a large speed increase.
     
  20. Fort_Major

    Fort_Major Limp Gawd

    Messages:
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    First, Benchmarking applications with a stopwatch and not an actual professional profiling tool running and monitoring the application (for cpu time not actual execution time) is child's play.

    Second, Using managed code to attemp to measure efficiency of most things very hardware specific such as cache/hyper threading quite impossible due to the pure nature of the fact that managed code has so much going on. Managed code might only be 10x slower than Native C/ASM however it also will generally cost far more CPU time and will result in far weirder usage of things like CPU cache.

    Third 5 data samples is actually absolutely worthless and in no way construes any amount of data capable of performing any statistics on.

    Fourth, making a very generalized statement about a tiny sampling of a very hardware specific technology based upon one simple scenario is not very valid.
     
  21. Raghar

    Raghar Limp Gawd

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    Actually, current Intel CPUs have a lot of virtual registers. Wouldn't these virtual registers make HT less relevant?

    Which brings here another question. Assume you have two threads, one interrupts a lot and reads a lot of RAM (that's the important one), and another that runs smooth as a silk and has nearly no RAM accesses and when they do they might be in cache (that's the much less important thread). It works well as long as they run at 1:1 ratio. When the first thread has only 1/10 running time, the results of the second threads are nearly useless. Would the second thread choke the first, when these threads would run on a single HT core?

    Really?
    This post is interesting... The poster before you claimed lot of RAM access is nice because it helps HT, and you are claiming I have too large dataset.

    So, not allowing a profiling application to interfere with tested application's timing is bad?

    10x slower, that's crazy. I thought a single threaded C implementation of similar algorithm finishes in 18 ms per iteration. However what can you do? C++ doesn't provide nano second timer, and <thread> is designed for people who received title, but are not able to use free time for self-education afterwards, which means it's simple and doesn't allow much creativity.

    But results show it stabilized fast, it took only two-three iterations.
    Well, the problem is I don't have 5 data samples yet. I still need desktop i5-2xxx/3xxx, and i7-3xxx (1155) samples.

    What I said about Intel extreme CPU is valid, and that matters. I could test few thousand (6-core 2011) CPUs, and I'd have the same measurements.
     
  22. Fort_Major

    Fort_Major Limp Gawd

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    A Profiling Application is far better tool at determining actual "CPU cost" because the execution time is not necessarily the most accurate measure. It is capable of monitoring a wide range of things from memory allocations, cpu cost and cpu time spent. The latter which are far more important in managed languages than non-managed languages


    There's tons of benchmarking done with far better tools and with a lot of varying scenarios that show what one would expect.

    For some things HyperThreading benefits, for some things there is no performance gain and for a few things it's slower.

    The reason why these things vary so much and being able to take advantage of the benefits Hyper threading generally requires you to be very low level C/C++ to have more control over when/how you take advantage of it.