A new Chimp Challenge

[theGryphon]

Hey guys,
I know you don't want to hear about this, but I'd really appreciate if you could read it with an open mind. You might find it interesting, hopefully...

I've been participating or observing CC since 2009, and my observation is that the most problematic aspect of CC is also what makes it so different and special: changing clients to Chimp names. I've seen it holding back many folders from participating, causing within-team discussions/frictions, which in turn can go as far as donors or teams to swear off CC. I think we all agree that this aspect of CC is both valuable but troublesome at the same time.

I believe the biggest reason why changing CC names is not favored is because personal recognition/objectives are important for some donors (more than others). I believe we should all respect their point of view. On the other hand, there are others who are in it to win it for the Team. I believe we should all respect their point of view, as well. But then, when things heat-up, especially when losing, there starts finger-pointing within the team.

So, I've been thinking how to manage this; keeping the specialty of CC while minimizing the issues it causes. There is basically no way without trade-offs, but as simple as it is, I believe what I'm going to propose will make things "better"

Proposal: Each participating party in the CC, create a new Chimp team (yes, team). Donors who wants to participate in CC for this Chimp team change their team number accordingly, while keeping their username.

Question/Comment: What?? New teams?? WTF?
Answer: Yes, new teams for Chimp names. Was that a question?

Q/C: How is it different from Chimp usernames?
A: The differences are, 1) The donors get to keep their folding names under the new team, 2) Switching to the new team is easier than switching to a new username; a) typos will be fewer, if any, and b) no need to change the passkeys, which 3) Enables a more secure and more efficient process, and 4) It is easier to communicate to new folders (my subjective view).

Q/C: Are there any benefits in doing this? Why bother?
A: On top of the logistics aspects, 1) It opens the CC to a whole new dimension. It is not the original folding teams that are competing now, but it is the Chimps! It suggests that regardless of their original folding teams, donors come together in a totally different team and engage in a totally different competition. 2) Discoupling the CC from original competition (at least to some degree) enables establishing and enhancing the camaraderie between folders across the whole folding community. It can really bring the whole folding community together and do something for fun while still competing, flinging poo, and smack-talking. It can hopefully make it so that it's not about winning but doing it for the celebration of the efforts we're all in together (something we unfortunately forget sometimes).

Q/C: I don't like that team points will be separated.
A: This idea suggests that CC will not be about the folding teams anymore. CC will be a battle of Chimps; this will put the "Chimp" in Chimp Challenge. We're too much immersed in team competition, and why? Why does it really matter what team you're folding for? I hope you can see that it really does not. So, why not change your team to another one for 10 days, just for the fun of it?

Q/C: How are we going to calculate "Growth"? Especially for new Chimps?
A: For the first year, which will be a transient (and imperfect) state, it will be based on last year's points. For new Chimps, there are a number of alternatives to go for. One possibility that I like is giving them the average of their scores in other categories.

Q/C: How about "Conversion"?
A: This is challenging, and there are two alternatives: 1) Same as before, 2) Get rid of it. The first one suggests we divide the Chimp team points to the folding team points and go from there. However, this is not what I have in mind, because it links the Chimp team too strongly to a single folding team; the opposite of what I'm trying to achieve. On the other hand, getting rid of "Conversion" will probably require another category to replace it with (I will post an idea about this as well). My side suggestion: get rid of it, because I envision CC to be decoupled from original teams, and Conversion is working just the opposite way.

Q/C: I don't like it.
A: OK(?)..

Any more questions/comments, please post below minding respect to others' (starting with me ) ideas. Thanks!

PS: I'll be posting this in OCF and EVGA forums as well.

 

[rascal65]

While I am new here, it appears just the name Chimp Challenge upsets most members of this team.

 

[Kendrak]

The potential for infighting is just as bad with this system, people calling each other out for not switching teams.

I know you are looking at teams as a sort of "place holder." Many on this team bleed red [H]s and the focus if no obsession for this team has been to retake out #1 spot. It is part of our culture and to try and change it will just cause more friction.

It is an interesting notion, but I would like to see the [H]orde pass.

 

[theGryphon]

True that there will always be people not switching; however, with this scheme, there will be much less reasons why not. Plus, this will bring a fresh start, where hopefully winning is not the main goal. It can truly be a "Chimp" Challenge, for the fun of it.

Being only 10 days, I don't believe it should take away from any other goals the teams have. Think of it as a short summer camp, then you go back to whatever you do regularly

 

[jimh425]

I think it would be better to just signup for the contest without modifying current folding processes or point system.

People could still sign up and create teams. I'd be willing to join a team, but I'm not willing to hurt my regular team for a side bet...so to speak. You'd just need a mapping from the chimp teams to actual daily values.

Other ideas, is that a team would only be willing to have x number of people from each category to allow for more teams that are diverse across normal folding teams.

 

[theGryphon]

I think it would be better to just signup for the contest without modifying current folding processes or point system.

People could still sign up and create teams. I'd be willing to join a team, but I'm not willing to hurt my regular team for a side bet...so to speak. You'd just need a mapping from the chimp teams to actual daily values.

Other ideas, is that a team would only be willing to have x number of people from each category to allow for more teams that are diverse across normal folding teams.

Yeah, one concern with individuals joining other teams in CC though, it distorts the points system, in particular the "Conversion" category. I know probably nobody joins CC thinking about this, and I really believe individuals should be able to join any CC team freely, but the fact remains. Maybe that Conversion category should be omitted, idk...

Anyway, this idea is about making CC a competition of not original folding teams, but Chimp teams. In an effort to bring the whole folding community together for a short period of time. My feeling is that there is too much focus on team competition, and that sometimes tends to go too extreme causing meaningless frictions both within and between teams. People tend to forget the ultimate purpose in Folding at Home. I had hoped more people felt the same way and this idea could serve a purpose of "coming together" as a short, 10-day celebration of what we are doing.

I totally respect any views on this or on CC in general though

 

[wings2004]

Problem is you can't separate the team competition from the Chimp competition. I honestly don't understand the concept of the chimp challenge, but from what I saw its a bunch of people changing their names but keeping their team the same. So basically as it is now you give up your individual competition but you still have your team competition, which is important to people, [H]ard people especially as we are trying to dethrone EVGA. Honestly even in the proposed ecosystem there wouldn't be much of a "coming together" as a community because those people would just join the Chimp33 team, and where would we be, hurting the normal 33 from beating evga and actually competing. I get challenges where there is some form of reward, but this whole concept just seems like a giant exercise in confusion... don't get me wrong, I'm new here, so I may be off base, but I generally like doing things for a point...

 

[Kendrak]

I get challenges where there is some form of reward, but this whole concept just seems like a giant exercise in confusion... don't get me wrong, I'm new here, so I may be off base, but I generally like doing things for a point...

I'm not new here and I think you have it nailed down quite well.